So much work.... and it doesn't work! :( - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Has anyone suggested hooking up a device such as an ipod or cd player to the amp directly? That should insure your giving the amp full voltage compared to what the AV would send it.

I used a 3.5mm jack to rca, than used RCA to XLR converter plug and it should tell if if its the signal making it soft or not. Or at least let you know if its a weak signal out from the AV.

If it works but its still quiet at full gain then the subs wired incorrectly.

You can check to see if its in correct phase by hooking a 12volt battery up to the +/- to the +/- of the sub wires. I would take the speakon connector end that goes into your amp off and hook the wires up to that. If the sub pops OUT then its wired correctly, if it pops IN then its out of phase and need to be required. I would say use a fresher 12volt as the 18" subs wont move a bunch with a almost dead battery. It wont damage the subs. I use this method for trouble shooting and saves you the 30 or so minutes prying the sub out of the box to check the wires.

But that wont tell us if you have it wired for 8 or 2 ohms amusing its a dvc4

Already did the battery test (with a AA) and it popped out.
dman918 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
That may work, but my suggestion at this point is to get away from the adapters and go for one single cable like what I linked to. I know for a fact that this specific one is configured correctly for an iNuke input:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...38-i1172393.gc

OK, I could give this a shot as well. I was trying to use the RCA cable as it is brand new and a nice quality cable. Plus the adapter is a whopping $2 shipped.
dman918 is offline  
post #93 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 10:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 108
I'm going to echo what has been said once before....it most likely is the cabling between your AVR and amp. It is incredibly rare that a piece of electrical equipment is DOA. However, bad cables or incorrectly wired cables are much more common. Trust me...this is a battle I've had for a decade in the industrial world. The first thing is to always blame the equipment...then blame the operator...then after two weeks actually look at the wiring and fix one bad connection.
dtsdig and chalugadp like this.

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #94 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,349
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 428
To me it sounds like your receiver doesn't output enough voltage on the LFE output. The iNUKE only needs 0.75v which is not a lot compared to other pro amps but your receiver may not go that high. You can measure the output of the receiver using a 60hz sine wave and multimeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dman918 View Post
-15.

When I had my old sub, the bass was pretty loud at that level. Here, you barely can hear it. The sub barely moves as well.
Consumer gear works on a much lower voltage level. You need more voltage for a pro amp. You can buy a converter that will "bump" up the voltage of the rca output and convert to a XLR. Someone else mentioned that you should try raising the LFE trim to +15. Have you tried that? Raising the trim will output more voltage but going too high may cause clipping.

_______________________________

DIY Sound Group: Information and Tips

Last edited by Mrkazador; 12-05-2014 at 11:59 AM.
Mrkazador is online now  
post #95 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
To me it sounds like your receiver doesn't output enough voltage on the LFE output. The iNUKE only needs 0.75v which is not a lot compared to other pro amps but your receiver may not go that high. You can measure the output of the receiver using a 60hz sine wave and multimeter.



Consumer gear works on a much lower voltage level. You need more voltage for a pro amp. You can buy a converter that will "bump" up the voltage of the rca output and convert to a XLR. Someone else mentioned that you should try raising the LFE trim to +15. Have you tried that? Raising the trim will output more voltage but going too high may cause clipping.
I haven't raised the LFE trim yet. I am going to try a new adapter first (gonna pick up the adapter or cable today after work). If that doesn't change anything, I'll jack the LFE up.

Thanks!
dman918 is offline  
post #96 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
There has been so many of this type of post, it seems it almost always comes back to a cable/connector/adapter issue between the AVR and the amp. If the XLR adapter or RCA to XLR or whatever isn't wired properly for this specific application, people end up with low/no signal/noise issues. When I was going from my Onkyo AVR to my NU4-6000 (or the previous EP2500 for that matter), the cable linked below was configured correctly. I had to change things up when I added a MiniDSP into the mix, but I did use this cable for several months before that.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...38-i1172393.gc


The page linked below has some excellent information regarding balanced/unbalanced cables and applications. I have used the diagrams from it on several occasions to help folks on here struggling with the same types of low signal issues. It's worth the read!

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=214470


They didn't have the full cable in stock so I bought a RCA - 1/4" adapter: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...91-i1166773.gc. It didn't make any difference.


So I maxed my LFE on my AVR to +12. Went into my AVR's built in test tone with it set to this (which means the tone plays at reference) and the amp showed one power bar. I guess that's progress, but I am not what to make of it and further, what to do about it.


Thoughts with this new info? Do you think the above OOS cable could make a difference? Do I need a voltage booster? Bad amp? Please help!!!


Thanks!

Last edited by dman918; 12-05-2014 at 05:06 PM.
dman918 is offline  
post #97 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 05:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
There has been so many of this type of post, it seems it almost always comes back to a cable/connector/adapter issue between the AVR and the amp. If the XLR adapter or RCA to XLR or whatever isn't wired properly for this specific application, people end up with low/no signal/noise issues. When I was going from my Onkyo AVR to my NU4-6000 (or the previous EP2500 for that matter), the cable linked below was configured correctly. I had to change things up when I added a MiniDSP into the mix, but I did use this cable for several months before that.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...38-i1172393.gc


The page linked below has some excellent information regarding balanced/unbalanced cables and applications. I have used the diagrams from it on several occasions to help folks on here struggling with the same types of low signal issues. It's worth the read!

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=214470
I bought four of those cables and use all of them on every channel of both of my inuke 3000dsp's. THey have worked perfectly for me and I have never had an issue with them. Cable directly from my avr to the amp without anything in between.

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #98 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
But do you think it will make a difference from the two options I've now tried?
dman918 is offline  
post #99 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 05:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,349
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Do you have a multimeter to check the voltage?
Guitar center probably carries a rca/xlr voltage converter. Buy it and try it out. If it doesn't work you probably could return it.

Last edited by Mrkazador; 12-05-2014 at 05:58 PM.
Mrkazador is online now  
post #100 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 06:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Probably not, but you never know. You could have a connection that is not that great between your cables and adapters. That is why it is best to use less in the chain. Come to think about it, I am using two different Y splitters to run all four of my connections off of one sub out on my avr because the first sub out goes to another sub by itself. I still have not had any issues. that means whatever voltage out of my avr is getting split four times and the inuke takes it no problem. So I do think that your avr is probably good on outputting enough voltage. This is real strange that people are having issues with this lately.

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #101 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Any links to the converter I may need?
dman918 is offline  
post #102 of 240 Old 12-05-2014, 07:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,349
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Samson S-Convert is what you need and it looks like guitar doesn't carry it. Another converter is the Behringer MIC2200, I don't know of any others. Call your local pro shops and see if they carry the Samson converter.
Mrkazador is online now  
post #103 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
OK, well I am have a replacement amp on the way. I think I am going to test first with that before buying any converters or such. Seems weird because it seems like I'm one of the only people on here to have this problem. I don't see a lot of talk about ever needing a converter, just raising LFE trims to compensate.


Also, anyone else have any thoughts about trying this cable? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...=1py4h77k41enr
Keep in mind that I already tried http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Technolog...ywords=rca+xlr and http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...91-i1166773.gc and I had the exact same resulting ouput from each.


I did also test with my phone. Same output results.

Last edited by dman918; 12-06-2014 at 09:19 AM.
dman918 is offline  
post #104 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,349
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Most receivers shouldn't have a problem with pro amps but there are a few that need the converter. What is the model # of your receiver?

_______________________________

DIY Sound Group: Information and Tips
Mrkazador is online now  
post #105 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Most receivers shouldn't have a problem with pro amps but there are a few that need the converter. What is the model # of your receiver?

Pioneer VSX-1120
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ers/VSX-1120-K


I had the problem connecting my phone directly to the amp as well.
dman918 is offline  
post #106 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,349
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 428
I don't think a phone can put out 0.75v but I could be wrong...

_______________________________

DIY Sound Group: Information and Tips
Mrkazador is online now  
post #107 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
I don't think a phone can put out 0.75v but I could be wrong...
Oh ok, just checking.


Any thoughts on the adapters not being sufficient and first trying the cable I have linked from guitar center? I know it couldn't hurt trying but if it realistically shouldn't make a difference, I don't want to go through the hassle.
dman918 is offline  
post #108 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 9,602
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2347 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
The only other thing I would try would be to rewire the cable to 1+ and 1- (at both ends ) and run the amp in mono mode, just in case something's messed up with biamp mode.
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
Don't guess, measure: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post22789786
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #109 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman918 View Post
OK, well I am have a replacement amp on the way. I think I am going to test first with that before buying any converters or such. Seems weird because it seems like I'm one of the only people on here to have this problem. I don't see a lot of talk about ever needing a converter, just raising LFE trims to compensate.


Also, anyone else have any thoughts about trying this cable? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...=1py4h77k41enr
Keep in mind that I already tried http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Technolog...ywords=rca+xlr and http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wir...91-i1166773.gc and I had the exact same resulting ouput from each.


I did also test with my phone. Same output results.

I know for fact that cable from guitar center works.

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #110 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 09:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
The only other thing I would try would be to rewire the cable to 1+ and 1- (at both ends ) and run the amp in mono mode, just in case something's messed up with biamp mode.
Michael

Sounds like he is getting issues on the input side of the amp.

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #111 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Sounds like he is getting issues on the input side of the amp.

Yes, I can pretty much 100% narrow it down to:


1. Need the cable Pain Infliction is recommending as there is something weird with my monoprice RCA and adapter(s) - not sure if it would be this as I did try two adapters with same result.
2. Bad amplifier - new one on the way so we will see
3. Not enough juice coming from my sub out - which makes me like one of a hundred who actually have an issue. LOL!


I don't think I am missing anything else? Everyone has looked at my screenshots and the amp is setup correctly, right?
dman918 is offline  
post #112 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
datranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: fontana, california
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I'm using a 1522 with an inuke 6000dsp, no problems, and a older vsx23 with an inuke 3000dsp, no problems either.
datranz is offline  
post #113 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Do you have another avr by any chance? Also, remind me of your sub settings in the avr. What the trim is and if the sub on.

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #114 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
datranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: fontana, california
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Monoprice cable did give me a hum, so I switch to some amazon cable, I don't remember the name anymore.
datranz is offline  
post #115 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
datranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: fontana, california
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I also have a denon 4310 that I use with a minidsp and crown k2. No issue there.
datranz is offline  
post #116 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Do you have another avr by any chance? Also, remind me of your sub settings in the avr. What the trim is and if the sub on.
I don't have another AVR to test. Sub settings were at default, which was 0 for LFE and 10' for distance. I maxed the LFE to +12 and still only get one power bar with the inuke maxed. Speakers set to small and sub to yes.
dman918 is offline  
post #117 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post
Monoprice cable did give me a hum, so I switch to some amazon cable, I don't remember the name anymore.

No hum here. Just no output.
dman918 is offline  
post #118 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman918 View Post
I don't have another AVR to test. Sub settings were at default, which was 0 for LFE and 10' for distance. I maxed the LFE to +12 and still only get one power bar with the inuke maxed. Speakers set to small and sub to yes.
When you said that you got one power bar, is that on the front of the amp or in the software?

In the software, look at the configuration page and on the right side you should see input and output bars light up. What do you see?

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #119 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dman918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
When you said that you got one power bar, is that on the front of the amp or in the software?

In the software, look at the configuration page and on the right side you should see input and output bars light up. What do you see?
One power light on front of amp lights up. Input and output in software shows around -30db.
dman918 is offline  
post #120 of 240 Old 12-06-2014, 11:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,233
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Yea that is low and confirms that it is an input issue. I have my sub out split four times and this is what I get on my amps. This is with the Hulk blu ray

Talking


Medium to heavy bass scene


Heavy bass scene with serious ULF. 5hz content


Sorry about the pics. I do not know how to post them on here anymore.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0256.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	279.4 KB
ID:	405562   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0257.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	256.5 KB
ID:	405578   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0261.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	278.7 KB
ID:	405586  

The Thompson Theater

RIP William Alexander
Pain Infliction is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off