SI-HT18, then HST-18, build(s). - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 215 Old 07-06-2015, 08:57 PM
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^ So true. Today $120 seems like a lot.

6 months from now it will seem like a little when you're plagued with the nagging question of "I Wonder…."?

I've been there. It gets expensive because more often than not you end up buying the very thing you didn't buy in the beginning when you decided to save money.
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post #182 of 215 Old 08-01-2015, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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So, with the factory fans, my Inuke6000dsp is shutting down on a regular basis. I can be listening to music at low level -30 to -40 and after a half hour or so it power cycles. Tried listening louder in the -20 range and it shut down as well. I have an RMA and will be shipping it back to Behringer for warranty service. Unfortunately I have no other amp to power the subs with, so it looks like I will either be completely subless for a couple of weeks, or will have to pull the old PSW110 out of the attic.

When i get the amp back I am going to spend some more time getting the subs dialed in a little better. I initially set the gain on the SI18 a few clicks lower to compensate for the output capability difference. However, I don't think I will surpass the SI18's capability on a regular basis, so I think I am going to lean towards more of a level match between the two subs to get the FR a little bit better. I have to run quite a bit above reference level on sine wave sweeps to bottom out the SI18. So with a max volume of -10 on normal content I think I will be fine. If not, guess I'll just have to replace it with another HST-18.

Last edited by bear123; 08-01-2015 at 07:40 PM.
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post #183 of 215 Old 08-01-2015, 07:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
So, with the factory fans, my Inuke6000dsp is shutting down on a regular basis. I can be listening to music at low level -30 to -40 and after a half hour or so it power cycles. Tried listening louder in the -20 range and it shut down as well. I have an RMA and will be shipping it back to Behringer for warranty service. Unfortunately I have no other amp to power the subs with, so it looks like I will either be completely subless for a couple of weeks, or will have to pull the old PSW110 out of the attic.

The Crown XLS series is on sale....
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post #184 of 215 Old 08-01-2015, 09:58 PM
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@bear123 - hopefully you'll be able to do a fan mod on your inuke6000 when you get it back from warranty.
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post #185 of 215 Old 08-01-2015, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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@bear123 - hopefully you'll be able to do a fan mod on your inuke6000 when you get it back from warranty.
Too many problems with fan mods on the Inuke6000's...I'm sticking with the stock fans and going to remote locate the amp.
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post #186 of 215 Old 08-01-2015, 11:45 PM
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Too many problems with fan mods on the Inuke6000's...I'm sticking with the stock fans and going to remote locate the amp.
yeah, seems like too much heat in one box... the Inuke 3000's seem to do better with the fan mods
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post #187 of 215 Old 08-29-2015, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Update on the amp issue. Contacted PE for warranty and they referred me to Behringer. I contacted them and shipped the amp at my cost to their closest repair facility. Got the amp back a couple weeks later. No note, no communication indicating what they found, if anything, or what repairs if any, were made. Hooked the amp back up and it shut down before the first song was over. Power cycled again shortly after that. So I emailed Behringer with this info. They sent another RMA, this time with shipping paid, to their main facility here in the US. Has been about a week so far. Hopefully I hear something within another week or so.
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post #188 of 215 Old 08-29-2015, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Update on the amp issue. Contacted PE for warranty and they referred me to Behringer. I contacted them and shipped the amp at my cost to their closest repair facility. Got the amp back a couple weeks later. No note, no communication indicating what they found, if anything, or what repairs if any, were made. Hooked the amp back up and it shut down before the first song was over. Power cycled again shortly after that. So I emailed Behringer with this info. They sent another RMA, this time with shipping paid, to their main facility here in the US. Has been about a week so far. Hopefully I hear something within another week or so.
As of right now this is not a ringing endorsement for Behringer. Hopefully they get it right this time around. Sorry to hear that you're having troubles bear.
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post #189 of 215 Old 08-29-2015, 08:32 PM
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Too many problems with fan mods on the Inuke6000's...I'm sticking with the stock fans and going to remote locate the amp.
Ditto.
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post #190 of 215 Old 08-30-2015, 07:06 AM
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Is this a common occurrence for the DIY subs? Are there other Behringer amps or other brands with better records?
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post #191 of 215 Old 08-30-2015, 10:00 AM
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Are there other Behringer amps or other brands with better records?
Most likely, but that would require spending more money and that goes against the DIY'ers cheap bastard credo.
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post #192 of 215 Old 09-01-2015, 06:20 AM
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Nice build!

I have made two LLT subs (nett Volume 20 cu ft) tuned to 13 Hz, each with a 18" Maelstrom driver powered by a Behringer iNUKE NU6000. Not in use yet, hopefully in a month. They are situated between LCR. It's a 5,000 cu ft space, hence ample woofage is welcome.

There's a spot available on the right wall lower 2 feet, 13 feet wide. Or I make 18" thick bass/broadband absorbers there, or... extra subs! After deduction of pannels, braces, driver and port, I reckon to have a total of 26 cubic feet nett Volume there to play with.

Several options come to mind:
two 13 cu ft LLT each with a single SI-HT18 D4 powered by a NU3000
two 13 cu ft each with dual SI-HT18 D2 powered by a NU6000
one or two smaller subs each with one SI-HST18 powered by a NU6000

The advantage of the last option is there is some space left for absorption. Not sure how low the tune would be. First option is closest to the spirit of the existing LLT. Second someting in between...

13 or 15 Hz tune would seem ideal.

Thoughts?

Edit, I am a bit stressed on the depth. Therefore the HT18 (14") would suit me more than the HST18 (16"). Could still do two or four 4 cu ft sealed subs with the HT18 ofcourse.

Sonotubes are not an option. These are cool, but I want a low shallow build.

It's the room, stupid!

Last edited by pletwals; 09-01-2015 at 07:15 AM.
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post #193 of 215 Old 09-08-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pletwals View Post
Nice build!

I have made two LLT subs (nett Volume 20 cu ft) tuned to 13 Hz, each with a 18" Maelstrom driver powered by a Behringer iNUKE NU6000. Not in use yet, hopefully in a month. They are situated between LCR. It's a 5,000 cu ft space, hence ample woofage is welcome.

There's a spot available on the right wall lower 2 feet, 13 feet wide. Or I make 18" thick bass/broadband absorbers there, or... extra subs! After deduction of pannels, braces, driver and port, I reckon to have a total of 26 cubic feet nett Volume there to play with.

Several options come to mind:
two 13 cu ft LLT each with a single SI-HT18 D4 powered by a NU3000
two 13 cu ft each with dual SI-HT18 D2 powered by a NU6000
one or two smaller subs each with one SI-HST18 powered by a NU6000

The advantage of the last option is there is some space left for absorption. Not sure how low the tune would be. First option is closest to the spirit of the existing LLT. Second someting in between...

13 or 15 Hz tune would seem ideal.

Thoughts?

Edit, I am a bit stressed on the depth. Therefore the HT18 (14") would suit me more than the HST18 (16"). Could still do two or four 4 cu ft sealed subs with the HT18 ofcourse.

Sonotubes are not an option. These are cool, but I want a low shallow build.
If you have the budget for the HST18's, get those instead of the HT18. In my 11cu/17hz tuned boxes, I saw a 6db gain just switching out the ht18 driver (powered by inuke3000 ~ 1100w rms/ch) to HST18's (on inuke6000 ~ 1800w rms/ch) from 12-40hz. In my 7cu/18hz tune boxes, there's a 5-5.5db gain through the entire bandwidth.
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post #194 of 215 Old 09-09-2015, 02:50 AM
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If you have the budget for the HST18's, get those instead of the HT18. In my 11cu/17hz tuned boxes, I saw a 6db gain just switching out the ht18 driver (powered by inuke3000 ~ 1100w rms/ch) to HST18's (on inuke6000 ~ 1800w rms/ch) from 12-40hz. In my 7cu/18hz tune boxes, there's a 5-5.5db gain through the entire bandwidth.
6dB is a lot! So if I understand correctly, first you used your existing 11 cu boxes and later you have built (I presume 2) 7 cu boxes, correct?

Would a lower tune be possible, to match the older 2, which are tuned to 13 Hz. I'd like 15 Hz.

BTW, I believe the measured output of the NU6000 is only 1,200 wrms/ch. I have read that somewhere.

It's the room, stupid!

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post #195 of 215 Old 09-09-2015, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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6dB is a lot! So if I understand correctly, first you used your existing 11 cu boxes and later you have built (I presume 2) 7 cu boxes, correct?

Would a lower tune be possible, to match the older 2, which are tuned to 13 Hz. I'd like 15 Hz.

BTW, I believe the measured output of the NU6000 is only 1,200 wrms/ch. I have read that somewhere.
I don't think that's a very accurate power rating based on how amps are realistically rated. No one that I know of uses continuous power output with a sine wave sweep as a measure of an amps power. It's a way to accurately compare different amps, but real world source material almost never puts that kind of demand on an amp. On real source content, i.e. music and movies, I think the Inuke6000 is closer to 1800 watts/channel.

I doubt any amp made by anyone will put out its "rated" power under long term sine wave sweep conditions...its just not a realistic way of rating imo.
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post #196 of 215 Old 09-09-2015, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pletwals View Post
6dB is a lot! So if I understand correctly, first you used your existing 11 cu boxes and later you have built (I presume 2) 7 cu boxes, correct?

Would a lower tune be possible, to match the older 2, which are tuned to 13 Hz. I'd like 15 Hz.

BTW, I believe the measured output of the NU6000 is only 1,200 wrms/ch. I have read that somewhere.
Check out the last 1.5 pages of the Marty FAQ thread. I've posted my FR graphs and a video on there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...ub-faq-75.html

But yes, you can definitely match differently tuned boxes without issues if they're closely tuned (I've done 17hz and 20hz easily).
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post #197 of 215 Old 09-28-2015, 06:41 PM
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Great thread. At this point I think I am convinced I will end up with 2 sealed 18" DIY (by which I mean assemble-it-yourself) subs eventually.

One area in which I may be screwed is wiring. My AVR is in the main basement room, while the theater is a former bedroom down there. So I figured inuke out there with the AVR, great, no fan noise in the theater. But the problem is that I only have RCA in the theater for my current sub. I can't run more speaker wire because the theater walls are insulated with rigid insulation, I would not be able to fish anything through. I'm not really keen on having speaker wires for the subs running all over the floor, but my only other option would be tearing out the drywall (which is covered in black velvet) to run new speaker wire and then re-drywall and re-velvet, which I obviously don't want to do.

Any alternatives?

Also, Ultimax 18" vs HT18, is there any kind of consensus yet?
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post #198 of 215 Old 09-28-2015, 06:42 PM
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post #199 of 215 Old 09-28-2015, 06:51 PM
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Great thread. At this point I think I am convinced I will end up with 2 sealed 18" DIY (by which I mean assemble-it-yourself) subs eventually.

One area in which I may be screwed is wiring. My AVR is in the main basement room, while the theater is a former bedroom down there. So I figured inuke out there with the AVR, great, no fan noise in the theater. But the problem is that I only have RCA in the theater for my current sub. I can't run more speaker wire because the theater walls are insulated with rigid insulation, I would not be able to fish anything through. I'm not really keen on having speaker wires for the subs running all over the floor, but my only other option would be tearing out the drywall (which is covered in black velvet) to run new speaker wire and then re-drywall and re-velvet, which I obviously don't want to do.

Any alternatives?

Also, Ultimax 18" vs HT18, is there any kind of consensus yet?
I read that the Ultimax 18 is a better driver with more output and is better built. But it also costs a lot more if you aren't buying the kit from PE.
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post #200 of 215 Old 09-28-2015, 07:23 PM
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I read that the Ultimax 18 is a better driver with more output and is better built. But it also costs a lot more if you aren't buying the kit from PE.
Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?

Last edited by curttard; 09-28-2015 at 07:31 PM.
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Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?
The SI HT18 bundle comes to $325 right? From HT18 to UM18 in a sealed box will be very similar, in a vented the UM18 can take more power and thus more output. Also the PE cabinet is supplied by DIYSG and is the same flatpack so the differences are really only in the driver. Can't really go wrong with either.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...i-ht-18-a.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...es-if-any.html
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...quot-subwoofer
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post #202 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?
Yes, that would be wrong. Also, D-B only has measurements of the prototype HT18 D2, which doesn't measure the same as recent production D4s.
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post #203 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 08:18 AM
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Thanks, and yes, my math was wrong (duh). So $355 for Ultimax vs $325 for HT18.

edit: This would be in the 4 cu ft sealed box, by the way.

Last edited by curttard; 09-29-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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post #204 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 09:01 AM
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I trimmed the internal braces back about 3/4" in roughly a 9" diameter circle. I think a little less would have sufficed based on the shape of the back of the motor, but it seemed to work ok.
Awesome build!
I will be building the same(sealed 4cuft HST18) over the next couple of weeks. I will be using the same flat pack. What did you use to trim the braces down with? Did you take any pics of the finished trim?
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post #205 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome build!
I will be building the same(sealed 4cuft HST18) over the next couple of weeks. I will be using the same flat pack. What did you use to trim the braces down with? Did you take any pics of the finished trim?
No pictures of the trimmed bracing. If I recall, I drilled a pilot hole on either side of the area I wanted to trim back, and used a jig saw to connect the dots. I think I could have gotten by with slightly less material trimmed out, which would have kept the bracing more rigid. In the end though, I think the bracing is well designed and still quite sturdy compared to many completely DIY attempts I have seen. If I had to do it over again, I suppose you could dry fit the box together with clamps and leave one side out to check clearances.
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post #206 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Thanks, is there any reason I wouldn't be buying the kit from PE? $355 for the Ultimax bundle, vs $305 for HT18 ($160, looks like that includes shipping?) and DIYSoundgroup flatpack ($120 + 45 shipping).

Also, am I crazy or does data-bass show the HT18 doing better than the Ultimax?
I would choose the UM-18 over the HT-18 if I were building one now. However, I feel that the HST-18 is by far the most capable driver in the deep bass for home theater in a small sealed box. I have said this several times but it is easy to get lost in so many posts within a thread, but I picked up 7 dB of output from a single HT-18 to a single HST-18 with much lower distortion and zero compression, using the same amp.

The only drawback of the HST-18, if I were to try and point one out, is that they are not as efficient up top, but no worse than similar drivers.
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post #207 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 10:08 AM
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Hey bear,

I got the same SI-HT18 D2 due to the close-out (and also wanted to have some fun with DIY).

I'll be placing it nearfield and integrating it with my other two subs (PSA). I will definitely be reading through your thread again.

At the moment, I only have the driver. Still need to buy/make the enclosure (4ft^3 sealed flat pack from DIYSoundgroup, most likely), find an amp and all the other goodies.

What would you recommend for an amp to drive one and only one HT18 D2? I'm thinking that I could use it to power just it, for now, and perhaps use it to power my mains in the future. Just a thought.

Thanks. Oh, and that HST-18 looks freaking awesome, btw.

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #208 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 10:29 AM
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No pictures of the trimmed bracing. If I recall, I drilled a pilot hole on either side of the area I wanted to trim back, and used a jig saw to connect the dots. I think I could have gotten by with slightly less material trimmed out, which would have kept the bracing more rigid. In the end though, I think the bracing is well designed and still quite sturdy compared to many completely DIY attempts I have seen. If I had to do it over again, I suppose you could dry fit the box together with clamps and leave one side out to check clearances.
Thanks for the tip! One of my enclosures is already put together, so I will have to shave it down while the box is together. I wonder if I could use a dremel tool to do it?
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post #209 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 12:49 PM
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I would choose the UM-18 over the HT-18 if I were building one now. However, I feel that the HST-18 is by far the most capable driver in the deep bass for home theater in a small sealed box. I have said this several times but it is easy to get lost in so many posts within a thread, but I picked up 7 dB of output from a single HT-18 to a single HST-18 with much lower distortion and zero compression, using the same amp.

The only drawback of the HST-18, if I were to try and point one out, is that they are not as efficient up top, but no worse than similar drivers.

One thing that is making me lean towards the HT-18 is the ohm load. They offer dual 2 ohm and dual 4 ohm options. Looks like the UM-18 only offer dual 2 ohm so you are always running a 4-ohm parallel load per sub, which doesn't seem to be a great fit for the iNuke if you want 1000 watts RMS per sub. So here are some amp comparisons:

iNuke 6000 DSP , $399, can run:
- two UM-18s at 4 ohms and 2000 watts RMS per channel (more power than the UM-18 needs)
or
- Four HT-18s (two subs per channel), get 1000 watts RMS per sub at 4 ohm load. Note WinISD shows max SPL and excursion to be roughly equal with HT-18 @ 1000 watts and UM-18 @1500 watts in the 113 liter enclosure (4 cubic feet).

Multiple iNuke 3000 DSP would give you the same result for more money.

It just seems like the dual 4-ohm options of the SI subs are a much better match for the iNuke amps if you want to run four subs. If you are only looking for two subs, the cost isn't much different. Am I missing anything here?

Last edited by mikeporter2000; 09-29-2015 at 01:07 PM.
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post #210 of 215 Old 09-29-2015, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post
Hey bear,

I got the same SI-HT18 D2 due to the close-out (and also wanted to have some fun with DIY).

I'll be placing it nearfield and integrating it with my other two subs (PSA). I will definitely be reading through your thread again.

At the moment, I only have the driver. Still need to buy/make the enclosure (4ft^3 sealed flat pack from DIYSoundgroup, most likely), find an amp and all the other goodies.

What would you recommend for an amp to drive one and only one HT18 D2? I'm thinking that I could use it to power just it, for now, and perhaps use it to power my mains in the future. Just a thought.

Thanks. Oh, and that HST-18 looks freaking awesome, btw.
A bridged 1000 would drive it fine. One channel of a 3000 would drive it and leave a channel open for future upgrades, $80 difference.
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