Gen II Crown XLS Drivecore - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 577 Old 03-15-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
interested in buying one for my ported sub.... quick question: does the 1502 or the 2002 have a high pass on it and if so is it factory set or can we adjust it ourselves? i need a HPF of something from 10-15hz......OR..... will i need a minidsp instead? can i hook up 1-male to 2-male RCA cables in the back it to run to the subwoofer input jack on the back of my AVR or do i need something else in addition to those?
They have high pass, low pass, band pass. Link to the manual:

https://3e7777c294b9bcaa5486-bc95634...5_original.pdf
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post #542 of 577 Old 03-15-2019, 12:44 PM
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Thanks......it didnt answer my questions though
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post #543 of 577 Old 03-15-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
Thanks......it didnt answer my questions though
The information is in there, so it should answer your question

PureBand™ Crossover Filter System:
The PureBand Crossover System provides a variable state Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave filter allowing you to choose a point between 30Hz and 3kHz on standard 1/12th
octave centers. Three filter types are available: Low Pass, High Pass and Band Pass.
For instructions on setting up the different crossover filter settings, please see the System Configuration Examples in the following section of this manual.

And yes of course you can hook up sub out to RCA input directly, don't even need a Y adapter unless you are running the amp in stereo mode
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post #544 of 577 Old 03-15-2019, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
i need a HPF of something from 10-15hz......OR.....

will i need a minidsp instead?

No, the HP options don't go that low.

Yes
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post #545 of 577 Old 03-16-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trulsrohk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
Thanks......it didnt answer my questions though
The information is in there, so it should answer your question

PureBand™️ Crossover Filter System:
The PureBand Crossover System provides a variable state Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave filter allowing you to choose a point between 30Hz and 3kHz on standard 1/12th
octave centers. Three filter types are available: Low Pass, High Pass and Band Pass.
For instructions on setting up the different crossover filter settings, please see the System Configuration Examples in the following section of this manual.

And yes of course you can hook up sub out to RCA input directly, don't even need a Y adapter unless you are running the amp in stereo mode
Ok thanks.....it seems like the lowest the hp will go is 30hz.....
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post #546 of 577 Old 03-16-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio412 View Post
i need a HPF of something from 10-15hz......OR.....

will i need a minidsp instead?

No, the HP options don't go that low.

Yes
Dammit......
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post #547 of 577 Old 03-18-2019, 06:54 AM
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The lowest the HPF goes is 30hz?

If you disable that one, is there still a built in roll off at 20hz enough to protect a ported sub under its tuning frequency?
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post #548 of 577 Old 03-18-2019, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post
The lowest the HPF goes is 30hz?

If you disable that one, is there still a built in roll off at 20hz enough to protect a ported sub under its tuning frequency?
That "build in rolloff" is a point of contention. Its discussed often but real world testing has shown the Crowns are still good down to about 10hz before they drop off. They are down a couple hundred watts from their bridged rating, but nothing as severe as is claimed.

So I wouldn't count on it.
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post #549 of 577 Old 03-18-2019, 08:04 AM
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There is not enough of a built in rolloff to protect the drivers. I've been playing around with subharmonic synthesizers and removing subsonic filters and I assure you, the crown XLS goes deep enough with enough power to bottom out a pile of drivers at 5hz. I know this because I screwed up my gains prior to running what I thought was going to be a very quiet sweep and learned it the fun way late at night with the wife asleep. She wasn't asleep (and I was quite wide awake) shortly after I learned about this.

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post #550 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 03:46 AM
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is it okay to link to other av forums here? Not sure how to interpret this chart exactly, just see some roll off. Idk that its enough to depend on for protection at 16hz tune, is my desire...
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post #551 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 08:45 AM
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Chris and Enders gave definitive answers. That chart does not change the answer. No, the XLS 1502 roll off is not a HPF. Period.

(All this is based on a ported alignment) Excursion below tuning is the problem. Input your driver and enclosure on winISD and you can watch the excursion go through the roof below tuning. You can also decrease input voltage to the point to the point excursion will not go over xmax, but you will find that all other response has dropped to silly low levels. A HPF is needed to keep excursion in check AND output above the filter at the desired levels.

Trust what's being told here, this is proven information.
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post #552 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
There is not enough of a built in rolloff to protect the drivers. I've been playing around with subharmonic synthesizers and removing subsonic filters and I assure you, the crown XLS goes deep enough with enough power to bottom out a pile of drivers at 5hz. I know this because I screwed up my gains prior to running what I thought was going to be a very quiet sweep and learned it the fun way late at night with the wife asleep. She wasn't asleep (and I was quite wide awake) shortly after I learned about this.

Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
That "build in rolloff" is a point of contention. Its discussed often but real world testing has shown the Crowns are still good down to about 10hz before they drop off. They are down a couple hundred watts from their bridged rating, but nothing as severe as is claimed.

So I wouldn't count on it.

Apparently a little bit, I mean even crown representatives are telling people as much for some reason. Anyway if I went with one of these I'd play it safe and either invest in a miniDSP or might try one of those harrison labs in-line RCA high pass filters, which seems to simple/cheap a thing to be true.

BTW I hope neither you nor C.P. thought that my posting that graph with wishful thinking was challenging your posts or anything, I greatly appreciate the info & will definitely take your advice, thank you!
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post #553 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 01:08 PM
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No not at all, hell, even if you did challenge it I wouldn't lose sleep, I was sitting 1.5' away from them at 11:00 at night when they were flapping around at 5 hz with some major boost and my 2502 was giving the drivers the serious beans. That sort of thing just doesn't get impacted by someone challenging you (which you weren't) across the internetz. Cats scattering like the end of the world was coming, wife not super impressed I woke her up... nope, those experiences don't put you in a place of being able to be convinced otherwise lol.


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post #554 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 01:28 PM
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Gen II Crown XLS Drivecore

It’s all good @Leon!

My current favorite quote sums it up: “I try hard not to offend, I try HARDER not to be offended”

I also emails Crown and was told that the rolloff was there. Then Luke in MN tested a Gen 1 XLS2500 and found it was still putting out more than 2k bridged until 10hz.

My own experience says it’s still good below 20hz as I’m using sealed subs. And I know others using ported boxes tuned low @JCJetta that also have tons of output.

So I’m going w my own experience over the tech folks at Crown..... but who knows lol


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post #555 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 02:43 PM
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And no offense taken here either, hopefully not given. I'd just hate for anyone's experience in DIY to be soiled because something isn't clear. Not many things leave a bad taste in your mouth like a severely bottomed driver.

If you can give specifics for your setup (driver t/s, enclosure net volume, port dimensions) I'd be glad to model it for you and show the optimal HPF setting based on driver specs. There are caveats for those specs and suggestions, but I'll cover them a little more with posting the chart, if you want to hear that stuff. PM me if you'd like and that'll keep the thread pointed the right direction. Otherwise, you can tag me in your HPF thread and we can work there.
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post #556 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 03:18 PM
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Maybe y'all can indulge me on a newbish Sub/Crown XLS question. I happen to have an XLS 1502 sitting around so I ordered a single parts express ultimax 18 kit to play around with. I want to integrate the sub into my 2.0 channel stereo as simply as possible to start. I'll eventually get a (well another) minidsp and probably another sub. However at this point I just want to bridge the amp and use the internal crossover to drive the single sub. I am aware this doesn't give me a great deal of flexibility for eq or time alignment. As I said I just want to play for a bit before spending a bunch more money.

Anyways on to the question. Can the 1502 be set to sum the stereo inputs to a mono signal for the single sub? I don't see a way to do this in the manual. Do I even need to do this? I would think most low bass is mixed mono on the recording so I could use a single channel. The other option would be a passive resistor spliter to do L+R which I prefer not to do. I guess I could run the amp in stereo to each of the voice coils separately? If the bass is not truly mixed mono it seems like the VC couple be "fighting" each other


Any advice outside of buy a minidsp (i will eventually) is appreciated.
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post #557 of 577 Old 03-20-2019, 05:27 PM
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Edit: In your case a channel to voice coil is the easiest means.

Last edited by Chris Popovich; 03-23-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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post #558 of 577 Old 03-21-2019, 08:22 AM
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Interesting. Unless I misread, the online manual says if you set the amp to bridge mode to only use the channel 1 input.
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post #559 of 577 Old 03-21-2019, 08:53 AM
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Yeah, I would steer clear of the channel per VC method for the reasons you mentioned.

If you already have all the things you need, go ahead and do it. I'm not sure about the summing either, I doubt the amp has the ability to do that. Splitting a single signal to two outputs is relatively easy. Merging two signal inputs to a single signal out to amplify requires more capability that I don't think the XLS has.

If your 2 channel content is mixed as you described, you've got the setup ready to go
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post #560 of 577 Old 03-21-2019, 11:34 AM
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yeah unfortunatly I have no idea if my typical stereo music has LF mixed in mono. A quick google search sudgests this is typical. I'll prob give it a try from one channel as an experiment to get me started, unless a better plan emerges.
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post #561 of 577 Old 03-23-2019, 08:50 AM
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Thank you for the link.

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post #562 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 04:54 AM
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Hello everyone,

couple a questions from a prospect buyer. I have a Behringer 6000 sitting here but the fan noise is too loud and I do not dare to mod and lose the warranty.

I want to drive 8 JBL 1200 (4 Ohm).

Will the Crown have a thump when powering up and down via the front button?

I have read something about signal sensing, will the crown go to sleep when no signal is there an wake up on signal? Can that setting/delay be tweaked? How much does it consume in this state?

Any issues with a hum on an AVR (NAD 758V3 and a MiniDSP 2x4HD) ?

Thank you in advance!
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post #563 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 05:27 AM
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I had a terrible hum in my setup (Denon X6500-H, MiniDSP 2x4, Crown XLS) but finally found a ground loop caused by my satellite coax, which actually got worse when I ditched sat and went with cable service. Nothing I did resolved it until I plugged all devices, including the coax, into the same Panamax surge protector strip.

I do not get any pops when powering it on or off. Never noticed if it sleeps. Good question, I could be wrong but I do not think it has this functionality.
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post #564 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post
Hello everyone,

couple a questions from a prospect buyer. I have a Behringer 6000 sitting here but the fan noise is too loud and I do not dare to mod and lose the warranty.

I want to drive 8 JBL 1200 (4 Ohm).

Will the Crown have a thump when powering up and down via the front button?

I have read something about signal sensing, will the crown go to sleep when no signal is there an wake up on signal? Can that setting/delay be tweaked? How much does it consume in this state?

Any issues with a hum on an AVR (NAD 758V3 and a MiniDSP 2x4HD) ?

Thank you in advance!
N.
No, I've never gotten a thump when powering up or down. Also, I leave it on most of the time, they don't use very much power or produce much heat when at idle. Heck, my wifi router produces a significant amount more heat than the amp!!

Regarding signal sensing, not a feature. It does have a sleep mode, but is not configured to be "plug and play" with the mono 2.5mm cable. A relay is required and if the switching device is momentary (not constant voltage) it can cause another issue for using the sleep function. I've messed around with it using a standard 12v relay, but not had any success for using my Denon's trigger out or my Rotel's out trigger either.

The other issue is when the amp is actually "asleep" the front LED's blink 1x per second or so. Not really useful and only annoying to me personally.

Other than that, plenty of power for me and it's very quiet, never heard it even spin up with listening to some spirited songs while tickling the clip lights.
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post #565 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 07:34 AM
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I was able to use this relay that can be in either in normally open or normally closed mode without a voltage on it:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I believe the Crown amp wants the mode to be closed for sleeping (so closed when the denon avr is off) and open for awake (when the denon avr is on).

I connected the relay to the trigger out on my Denon AVR with this cable:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It works great if wired correctly, but I agree that the pulsing LEDs when sleeping is incredibly annoying. You could tape over them perhaps. I can post a pic of the wiring if interested.
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post #566 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Maxey View Post
I was able to use this relay that can be in either in normally open or normally closed mode without a voltage on it:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I believe the Crown amp wants the mode to be closed for sleeping (so closed when the denon avr is off) and open for awake (when the denon avr is on).

I connected the relay to the trigger out on my Denon AVR with this cable:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It works great if wired correctly, but I agree that the pulsing LEDs when sleeping is incredibly annoying. You could tape over them perhaps. I can post a pic of the wiring if interested.
Sure, that would be great! You're correct for closing the two terminals putting the amp to sleep. My initial thought was a bit too primitive with the simple DPDT relay, but I already had it. I'll have to grab that "fancy" relay and give it a go. Thanks for sharing that!!

Yeah, I was thinking electrical tape for the lights as well. If the LED's only back-lit into the amp somewhat, I'd not be concerned, but they can light up a dark room when on and uncovered.
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post #567 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Sure, that would be great! You're correct for closing the two terminals putting the amp to sleep. My initial thought was a bit too primitive with the simple DPDT relay, but I already had it. I'll have to grab that "fancy" relay and give it a go. Thanks for sharing that!!

Yeah, I was thinking electrical tape for the lights as well. If the LED's only back-lit into the amp somewhat, I'd not be concerned, but they can light up a dark room when on and uncovered.
No problem! I should be able to get and post a pic by tomorrow.
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post #568 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 09:11 AM
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aschen,
What are you going to run it off? Normally one would just connect it to one of the sub outs on the receiver or preamp. There are several ways to connect that to the Crown. Running bridged is no problem and there is no need to do the right/left channel thing. Even is you do 2 subs off the Crown you still only come off channel 1 on the Crown if bridged.

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post #569 of 577 Old 05-29-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Yeah, I was thinking electrical tape for the lights as well. If the LED's only back-lit into the amp somewhat, I'd not be concerned, but they can light up a dark room when on and uncovered.

Something like this will give you a cleaner look:

Light Blocking LED Covers
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post #570 of 577 Old 05-31-2019, 02:31 AM
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Here's the pic of the relay wired up. Hope this helps!

EDIT: The white and red wires are from the wire attached to the AVR trigger.
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