My JBL 373x non dedicated theater build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 246 Old 05-31-2015, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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My JBL 373x non dedicated theater build

Over the years, I've had a lot of different speakers in several different rooms. Within the most recent years I've had JTR triple 8s and triple 12s, JBL 3677, Yorkville U215, Elusive 1099, some mini monitors and one off line arrays from GR Research and a few others designs as well. Not so recent I've had the Carver Amazings and Legacy Focus. I liked all of them for their individual strengths and I've heard a lot of great attributes but rarely all in one speaker. After experiencing my own speakers as well as having been to a couple of friend's houses with some nice set ups I've come to like certain traits. I like a BIG sound, large sweet spot, great vocal clarity, extreme mid bass, able to crank loud but not be harsh, sound good at low listening levels...Oh and also able to play something delicate and do it justice then play double duty and represent IMAX style . I'm not asking much right lol?


I used to have a dedicated man cave and scary dynamics was easy. Currently I'm in a house with an open floor plan with an L shaped living room with lots of windows and compromises. I have been able to achieve some good sound but great takes a lot more work especially in trying to keep it décor friendly for my lady.


My current L & R set up consists of the horn section from the JBL 3731/3732 with passive crossover in between the mid and tweet. Right now the tops are being driven off my Denon x4000 with no high pass then using the main pre outs to an active crossover with the bottoms getting 1000 to 1350 (depending on impedance) from a crown xli 3500. The tops have remained a constant but the bottoms have been changed a lot. In the man cave I had some sealed JBL 2242s and all was good...not anymore. In my current place I tried some sealed AE PB18h+ and again just couldn't get I was looking for. I then tried the AE 18s ported at 38hz tune thanks to LTD02 who has helped me a lot! That was better but with the subs turned off, still didn't have the impact I thought it should for having an 18 in that role. The combo that I finally decided on was dual ported AE TD15x tuned to 45hz per speaker. That combo per measurements with Omni mic and my ears is the best.


With the way things were set up, I didn't expect to sound good but to my ears it did and it made me want to take it to the next level. Now I've got some Crown DSI 1000s that just arrived last week that have actual presets for JBL cinema speakers. I'm going to run that for the tops and still keep the XLI 3500 for the bottoms but using a dcx 2496 vs the DBX 223xl. I'll have a lot more control and flexibility as I do have some issue in the crossover region between the mid bass and the horn. LTD02 said this was a result of active bottom and passive top.


For center I have the exact same components as the L and R but in the interest of having some more space to put gear, the though has crossed my mind to get a JBL 4722. I had a 4622 in position there which measured well but with the 4722, I'd still be timbre matched across all three as they use the same tweet. Still undecided on that one.


For LFE I've got two 15 hz tuned ported UXL 18s up front with another two nearfield. I also have another two soon to come from the UXL group buy for a total of 6. To pick up any slack in the ULF region, I've got 4 Crowson transducers driven by the crowson D500 amp. All subs will driven by FP10k and FP14K. Still have to work out the final configuration. My thoughts are to keep the two UXL up front the exact same. Then build 4 mini marty 15hz tune for nearfield. Then with the freed up AE 18s, place those up front on top of the UXL cabs to help clean up the 60 to 90hz region a bit. I just want that clean sound from the L and R to transition all the way down.


There will be more to come but for now at least some pics from where I began to where I'm at currently. Not pictured is the 120" AT screen that most of this is hidden behind...soon.
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post #2 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 12:43 AM
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^^Looking good! Is that a Volt-10 above the projector?
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post #3 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thx, yes volt 10s are on surround back duty and klipsch rs62 for SL/SR.
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post #4 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 09:07 AM
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I love it! Love it, love it, love it.

Which picture is the most recent/current configuration?
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post #5 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thx Scott! The most recent pic is the one with the unfinished jbl 4622 in the center. I cut all the holes yesterday for two boxes for the TD 15x. Now I have to do some bracing and paint everything flat black. Then I'll decide on whatever center channel scheme to implement.
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post #6 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 11:42 AM
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post #7 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 12:32 PM
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the td15x in the smallish 45hz tuned cabs have about a 4-5db rise in the 70hz region relative to the td18h cabs, so that may explain part of what is being heard there.


the upgraded electronics will really help with dialing in a good transition from the horns to the mid-bass bins.
the two questions that come to mind are:
1. are you getting *any* odd effects with the mid/tops at your listening? i.e. are they integrating completely to create one big coherent sound or is there any perceived separation in the source of the midrange/high end?


2. what was missing in with the LCR 3732 setup, that you are thinking about replacing the C with a 4722? if it is space, maybe an equipment rack could free up some real estate from behind the screen?

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post #8 of 246 Old 06-01-2015, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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1) everything sounds coherent.

2) Nothing missing just running out of room. I remember when I used to have a receiver, sub amp and blu ray player. The equipment count has grown but the space hasn't .
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post #9 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
1) everything sounds coherent.

2) Nothing missing just running out of room. I remember when I used to have a receiver, sub amp and blu ray player. The equipment count has grown but the space hasn't .

I'm sure you've thought about the space issue from all angles but what about dropping your subs to the floor and then stacking your electronics equipment on top of them? That way you could keep your 3 way (3732) centre.

I think monolith theatre did it this way.

http://monolith-theater.net/hal/?p=1591
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post #10 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 08:56 AM
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gpmbc,


Nice, are you still running the si18's or DTS-10's? Till this day my folded horn Madison subs hit mid bass harder than any.

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post #11 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kwikas View Post
I'm sure you've thought about the space issue from all angles but what about dropping your subs to the floor and then stacking your electronics equipment on top of them? That way you could keep your 3 way (3732) centre.

I think monolith theatre did it this way.

http://monolith-theater.net/hal/?p=1591
Getting access to the equipment behind the screen would be a nuisance. I'm gonna proceed with the 3732 center and if I have to maybe move some equipment behind then I go from there.
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post #12 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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gpmbc,


Nice, are you still running the si18's or DTS-10's? Till this day my folded horn Madison subs hit mid bass harder than any.
Sup MK, I have four uxl 18 at the moment with two up front and two near field. After some correspondence with Lukeamdman, now I'm leaning towards using my AE18s in large enclosures tuned to 25hz. Luke said they compared nicely to his Othorns (high praise coming from him). I'd then have all AE woofs up front and 4) uxl behind me to do the heavy lifting for movies.
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post #13 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 12:20 PM
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Thx Scott! The most recent pic is the one with the unfinished jbl 4622 in the center. I cut all the holes yesterday for two boxes for the TD 15x. Now I have to do some bracing and paint everything flat black. Then I'll decide on whatever center channel scheme to implement.
Are these JBL 3732's considered a step up from the 4722? What mid and high frequency horns are used on the 3732? They look pretty sweet!
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post #14 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 12:50 PM
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Are these JBL 3732's considered a step up from the 4722? What mid and high frequency horns are used on the 3732? They look pretty sweet!

The top section is identical and the built from JBL version is supposed to be a higher model. The 3732's mid range is supposed to be better and it uses the 2226 15 for the bottom. They are dual 6.5 inch drivers horn loaded.

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post #15 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 07:49 PM
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The top section is identical and the built from JBL version is supposed to be a higher model. The 3732's mid range is supposed to be better and it uses the 2226 15 for the bottom. They are dual 6.5 inch drivers horn loaded.
Looks like the 3732 uses the 15's that the 3722 uses (M115H). So in theory better mids but less quality low end vs. the 4722. You have to step up to the 3732-T to use the woofers from the 4722 (265H-2) and those are tri-amplified. To get the 2226 you either have to go with 3731 for a single or 5732 for duals.

Btw, nice setup gpmbc, I like the progression, especially the room treatments and how you covered the windows. Curious if you feel you lost anything going from the 3 way DIY to the 2 way 4622?
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post #16 of 246 Old 06-02-2015, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the 3732 uses the 15's that the 3722 uses (M115H). So in theory better mids but less quality low end vs. the 4722. You have to step up to the 3732-T to use the woofers from the 4722 (265H-2) and those are tri-amplified. To get the 2226 you either have to go with 3731 for a single or 5732 for duals.

Btw, nice setup gpmbc, I like the progression, especially the room treatments and how you covered the windows. Curious if you feel you lost anything going from the 3 way DIY to the 2 way 4622?
Odd that they would take a step down in the woofer dept vs the 3731 when it comes to the 3732. I avoided that by rolling my own. I actually had the 3731/32 first but was trying to experiment and see what it would take to get big cinema sound on the cheap. I was able to source components easily enough and piece something together.

The 3732 just has a revealing sound and clarity in the midrange that's not easily surpassed in my experience. They are huge and I had to go through a lot of trial and error to get the horn section at the right height. I tried two woofers stacked one on top of the other with the 4622 woofer section and tilted the horn down a lot but I didn't like it. Then I tried 30", 24" high and finally settled on 20.5" high as everything just came together and sounded cohesive. Just going from 24" down to 20.5" produced much better graphs.

It's not the easiest speaker to set up (although it does make matters much easier with horn coverage down to 350hz) but I feel the end result won't be lacking anywhere. Thx BTW and covering the windows was huge step towards being able to listen to the system and not the room ie windows shake/rattle.
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post #17 of 246 Old 06-03-2015, 03:28 AM
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The top section is identical and the built from JBL version is supposed to be a higher model. The 3732's mid range is supposed to be better and it uses the 2226 15 for the bottom. They are dual 6.5 inch drivers horn loaded.
What model are those 6 & 1/2" mids in the 3732? What is the model on that mid horn?

I have always been fascinated with these big horn loaded 3 way speakers, such as the 3732. I also really like Scott's big quad 2226 setup that he built.
How does having a dedicated horn loaded mid range driver (in addition to the horn loaded high frequency driver) in a 3 way speaker affect the over all performance, compared to a nice two way with a horn loaded top who's cd is crossing over at 1khz?

What are the potential down falls of separating the most important band, ie: 500hz to say 1,500hz playing through the mid driver and its horn, then handing over at 1,500hz to the HF section?
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post #18 of 246 Old 06-03-2015, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The mids are jbl 165h and 364897-001 is the part # for the waveguide.

Scott's set up is awesome, and having a dedicated mid horn is just another step towards having less influence from the room due to horn loading. A 3 way can definitely be beat by a good 2 way but having it broken up means less work in the individual bands for each driver.

The tweeter is covering a more narrow region so it's not working hard and the same with the mids which assures both are clean in the region they operate. Also, less demand for woofers to extend up to 350hz vs 1000 in the example you referenced.

The downfall is also the potential for more things to go wrong if you're going active. I've got a passive a crossover from the mids to the tweeter so that makes that easier. Now just have to worry about an active crossover for the woofers to meet the mids. With multiple amps and active crossovers comes the potential for more noise and buzzes as well as potential user error trying to get things to mesh.

The other area to be addressed is adequate distance for the various sections of the horns to sum together at the listening position. If that's not handled then things will sound off and not cohesive.
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post #19 of 246 Old 06-03-2015, 07:43 AM
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Ah crap, I was thinking of the 3731. The 2226 and 2035 are both better than the m115 in the 3722 or 3732. Having tested many systems the integration into your room is key. I don't care how good a CD or driver is because if you can't dial them in it won't matter. Also, the lower the woofer has to play the better and same for the CD as long as it can still extend up high enough.

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post #20 of 246 Old 06-03-2015, 07:48 PM
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Odd that they would take a step down in the woofer dept vs the 3731 when it comes to the 3732. I avoided that by rolling my own. I actually had the 3731/32 first but was trying to experiment and see what it would take to get big cinema sound on the cheap. I was able to source components easily enough and piece something together.

The 3732 just has a revealing sound and clarity in the midrange that's not easily surpassed in my experience. They are huge and I had to go through a lot of trial and error to get the horn section at the right height. I tried two woofers stacked one on top of the other with the 4622 woofer section and tilted the horn down a lot but I didn't like it. Then I tried 30", 24" high and finally settled on 20.5" high as everything just came together and sounded cohesive. Just going from 24" down to 20.5" produced much better graphs.

It's not the easiest speaker to set up (although it does make matters much easier with horn coverage down to 350hz) but I feel the end result won't be lacking anywhere. Thx BTW and covering the windows was huge step towards being able to listen to the system and not the room ie windows shake/rattle.
I'm curious what your listening distance is to where you had to go down to 20.5 to get the best sound? And is this the distance to the top of the woofer box? For someone wanting a 3 way JBL OEM offering it seems they would be better off with the 3731 which has the woofer box height at 21.5" vs 34.75" for the 3732 (assuming a similar seating distance).

I'm loving all the combos you went through to find the best sound for you. Any thoughts on trying out alternate compression drivers or are you happy there?
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post #21 of 246 Old 06-03-2015, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm curious what your listening distance is to where you had to go down to 20.5 to get the best sound? And is this the distance to the top of the woofer box? For someone wanting a 3 way JBL OEM offering it seems they would be better off with the 3731 which has the woofer box height at 21.5" vs 34.75" for the 3732 (assuming a similar seating distance).

I'm loving all the combos you went through to find the best sound for you. Any thoughts on trying out alternate compression drivers or are you happy there?
I sit around 15 feet away and the 20.5" is for the top of the box. In all honesty, the height issues I was having might have been a result of the passive top active bottom. I'll post graphs when I get up and running between how I was running things vs when I implement new equipment.

From a parts standpoint, I'd rather have a 3731. Like you had referenced, it's not until you get to the 3732t or the 5732 before they break out the good stuff.

When I was testing the 4622, I swapped out tweeters. The 2430h is what comes stock and is aluminum vs the 2432h that comes with the 373x and 4722 and is titanium. Using the stock passive crossover from the 4622, I simply swapped out the 2430h for the 2432h. To my ears the 2432h was more engaging and measurements confirmed that the 2430h had a roll off I believe around 12khz vs the 2432h which continued out to 20khz. If I was to try another tweet it'd have to be beryllium as I've read nothing but good about those but then comes tri amping (unless same sensitivity and works with the existing passive crossover) plus the expense of the tweeters for potentially a subtle difference. There is also the d2430k which I haven't heard but it seems a waste to only use that one to 1.2 khz. If I were to use it lower, then wasting the benefit of the mid horn.
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post #22 of 246 Old 06-04-2015, 02:51 PM
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I sit around 15 feet away and the 20.5" is for the top of the box. In all honesty, the height issues I was having might have been a result of the passive top active bottom. I'll post graphs when I get up and running between how I was running things vs when I implement new equipment.

From a parts standpoint, I'd rather have a 3731. Like you had referenced, it's not until you get to the 3732t or the 5732 before they break out the good stuff.

When I was testing the 4622, I swapped out tweeters. The 2430h is what comes stock and is aluminum vs the 2432h that comes with the 373x and 4722 and is titanium. Using the stock passive crossover from the 4622, I simply swapped out the 2430h for the 2432h. To my ears the 2432h was more engaging and measurements confirmed that the 2430h had a roll off I believe around 12khz vs the 2432h which continued out to 20khz. If I was to try another tweet it'd have to be beryllium as I've read nothing but good about those but then comes tri amping (unless same sensitivity and works with the existing passive crossover) plus the expense of the tweeters for potentially a subtle difference. There is also the d2430k which I haven't heard but it seems a waste to only use that one to 1.2 khz. If I were to use it lower, then wasting the benefit of the mid horn.
Interesting info on your findings as regards L/F cabinet height. Are you running dual 15" (side by side) in all your L/F sections or did you settle on singles? Are they 2226H's?


I believe the 6.5" mid driver (165h) is actually and Audax PR170mo. It's an extremely well regarded driver.
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post #23 of 246 Old 06-04-2015, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm running dual AE td15x side by side for LCR. Interesting about the 165h being an Audax driver. I'll have to look up the specs on that.
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post #24 of 246 Old 06-04-2015, 07:41 PM
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I'm running dual AE td15x side by side for LCR. Interesting about the 165h being an Audax driver. I'll have to look up the specs on that.
I think Harman Pro might own Audax now. Certainly the Audax PR170mo seems to be a step up from the single 6.5"mid that they use in the 3730 3 way. I think the mid driver JBL use in that particular Screen Array is a rebadged Eminence LA-6CBMR....JBL call it a 195h.


Not sure why they didn't stick with the Audax driver (JBL 165h) for the 3730 mid horn but perhaps they wanted a cheaper driver to reduce the overall price. The 3730 uses the cheaper M115-8 drivers in the L/F section too.


In any event, if anyone is sourcing either of the factory badged JBL 195h or JBL 165h drivers, the pricing is...er...high.
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post #25 of 246 Old 06-04-2015, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Good info thx.
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post #26 of 246 Old 06-05-2015, 02:27 AM
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I think Harman Pro might own Audax now. Certainly the Audax PR170mo seems to be a step up from the single 6.5"mid that they use in the 3730 3 way. I think the mid driver JBL use in that particular Screen Array is a rebadged Eminence LA-6CBMR....JBL call it a 195h.


Not sure why they didn't stick with the Audax driver (JBL 165h) for the 3730 mid horn but perhaps they wanted a cheaper driver to reduce the overall price. The 3730 uses the cheaper M115-8 drivers in the L/F section too.


In any event, if anyone is sourcing either of the factory badged JBL 195h or JBL 165h drivers, the pricing is...er...high.
What does their 165h go for? Are there cheaper, aftermarket type places to buy them from? I am also curious to know what the Mid and HF horn sections of the 3731/3722 go for. Anyone know?
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post #27 of 246 Old 06-05-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
What does their 165h go for? Are there cheaper, aftermarket type places to buy them from? I am also curious to know what the Mid and HF horn sections of the 3731/3722 go for. Anyone know?

Here's some....


http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-165H-7-M...454?rmvSB=true


I'm sure you can buy the full Mid and HF horn sections thru a JBL dealer but you would need to investigate the best one(s) to talk to. I know these dealers have been mentioned on threads around here.
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post #28 of 246 Old 06-05-2015, 05:07 AM
 
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I just found this thread. Awesome buddy.
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post #29 of 246 Old 06-05-2015, 05:10 PM
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After some correspondence with Lukeamdman, now I'm leaning towards using my AE18s in large enclosures tuned to 25hz. Luke said they compared nicely to his Othorns (high praise coming from him).
Interested to know about what size enclosure you are talking about. Any measurements available?

I wish I had a big enough room for those JBLs! Monsters!!!

explore the music
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post #30 of 246 Old 06-05-2015, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Interested to know about what size enclosure you are talking about. Any measurements available?

I wish I had a big enough room for those JBLs! Monsters!!!
Enclosures are gonna be 16.75" deep with a double front baffle, 32" wide and 40" high. I ordered a fourth 18 yesterday and I got wood cut yesterday for the first two boxes.

These speakers definitely take up some space! I've got an AT screen so height is no biggie. They also aren't heavy since the horn is separate... Just W I D E.
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