The Martysub challenge ... design in 24 hours! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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The Martysub challenge ... design in 24 hours!

UPDATE 4:
I have completed pics in post #78 ! And a bit of a talk on design.

UPDATE 3:

Ordered two SI 18 D4s.
Ordered the 3000dsp.


Now onto all the little wires that I needs. Speaker cables, etc.


The biggest problem is figuring out what painting methodology I will be using.




UPDATE 2:
Sick of gooogling.
Dayton Audio options:
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/sub...28%29%2Frecord[endeca%3Amatches%28.%2C%22P_PortalID%22%2C%221%22% 29+and+endeca%3Amatches%28.%2C%22P_Searchable%22%2 C%221%22%29]&Ns=P_BestPrice|1&PortalID=1

SI HT-18:
http://stereointegrity.com/product/ht18-18-subwoofer/

UPDATE 1:
Added pics to post #26
ORIG:
I am considering a DiY build on a whim. I want to get some parts on my door step on Friday (there are reasons for this). I'm CONSIDERING doing DiY because I am on a tight budget and have not built something of quality in wood for atleast a year.

I have a 600 sqft room. It's just a larger than normal great room. It's about 5000 cuft. I have some 12"ers in my towers via Infinity SM-122 speakers that I have had since about 1993. (I LOVE THEM) So the twoers help but they don't fill the room.

If I go martysub build, what do I need? Am I correct in reading that this is supposed to be a blend of two sub sizes? If so, I'd probably do a Mini/Full build. If I can go matching pair, I'd consider Mini/Mini.

I'm planning on doing a Dayton Audio sub and iNuke amp build.

I'm looking at this speaker alot:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...4-ohm--295-403
Dayton Audio TS320D-4 12" Titanic Mk 4 Subwoofer 4 Ohm (dual voice coil or not is TBD)
(I'd rather pay for the long excursion model and reduce speaker size and cabinet volumes) 19mm is alot of throw.I'd go 10" or 15" as needed.

What amp would I need? What speakers would I need for the room?

Last edited by kherman; 08-31-2015 at 08:30 PM.
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post #2 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 06:46 PM
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here is the list of things you will require for a martysub:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...flatpacks.html


With my wood cut I had my martysub up and running within 4 hours.
kherman likes this.

Who needs 4K?... just go see your optometrist.

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post #3 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 07:29 PM
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Full Marty was made for the Dayton RSS18 using the 2x4' handy panels from Home Depot so fabrication is simple. Many people use the Dayton UM18 as well, and there is no need to mix different size enclosures. Two Full Marty's with UM18s and a iNuke6000DSP is my recommendation.


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post #4 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 07:33 PM
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They can be matching. All the info you need is in the Martysub FAQ

Forget about 12" drivers. 18" has way more output.

If budget is tight, 2 minimarty with ht-18 D4's and NU3000 has decent output. Get the NU6000 if you can.
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post #5 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely prefer the UM18 due to excursion data.

What is the difference besides power in the inuke 3000 and 6000? It's $280 vs $400. And the dual 18"ers pus the price up more.

I'm honestly intrigued by the multiple different driver idea. But I worry about the left/right balance.

My wife is going to kill me!

Oh damn, the subs will block my towers in the current tower locations. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. More planning needed.

The two 18"ers cost $540 and the inuke 600 is abother $400. We're looking at $1K. Way more than I want to spend. I'd rather do 15"ers and the inuke 3000 if that would work.

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post #6 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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OK.

36" wide. About 20" high" and about 20" deep are the maximimum dimensions. 14400 cub in => 8.33 cuft enclosure

Prefer ported. COuld do down firing but prefer front firing. This has Marty design written all over it.

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post #7 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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From the FAQ, am I reading this right?

I could do the HT18 in the CubeMarty? And if I have room, I could increase the size to the MiniMarty?

And if I do impedance matching correctly, I can drive two of these off of one inuke 3000?

Amp: $280
speanekers; $340
total: $620

Hrrmrmmmmm

I'll have to tweak the design. It will be "longer" but still ported with about 9 cuft. Hrrmmmmm.

The down side is that the HT18 is currently on back order but there web page says that they should be in stock by now.
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post #8 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 08:55 PM
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So it's like a marty sub, but different?

it's just a ported subwoofer. download and learn WINisd. it's free and pretty intuitive. Use that to model the performance of different drivers in a given box size . Great little program.

check out Stereo Integrity's HT18. you could get a pair for less than $350, plus shipping.

mods, can we have a 'dislike' button ?
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post #9 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post
So it's like a marty sub, but different?

it's just a ported subwoofer. download and learn WINisd. it's free and pretty intuitive. Use that to model the performance of different drivers in a given box size . Great little program.

check out Stereo Integrity's HT18. you could get a pair for less than $350, plus shipping.
nope they are 174 free shipping now. easily the best bang for your buck 18 you can buy. i have 4 of them and i love them.
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post #10 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I think I got it.

Can someone model what a Marty like box is like in the WinSD app ....
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...tysub-faq.html
.... would sound like if I went with 20"20"x36"?

These are rough dimensions.

I have the app but time and learning curve are going to hold me back. I literally have work tomorrow all day and after work I hope to get things ordered. I just need to avoid regrets at this time.

Shoooting for dual 18s in tow seppperate ported boxes driven off a single inuke 3000. I think at this point, if those speakers will work in the box, I simply need to be convinced to upgrade the iNuke.
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post #11 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappydue View Post
nope they are 174 free shipping now. easily the best bang for your buck 18 you can buy. i have 4 of them and i love them.
didn't notice the free shipping. that's great.
I have 4, as well . They're out of the sonotubes they were in ,,, wont fit the new house. so time to get creative...

mods, can we have a 'dislike' button ?
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post #12 of 97 Old 07-19-2015, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kherman View Post
OK, I think I got it.

Can someone model what a Marty like box is like in the WinSD app ....
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...tysub-faq.html
.... would sound like if I went with 20"20"x36"?

These are rough dimensions.

I have the app but time and learning curve are going to hold me back. I literally have work tomorrow all day and after work I hope to get things ordered. I just need to avoid regrets at this time.

Shoooting for dual 18s in tow seppperate ported boxes driven off a single inuke 3000. I think at this point, if those speakers will work in the box, I simply need to be convinced to upgrade the iNuke.


I would do this if you do not have time to learn....

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...ndle--300-7094

Who needs 4K?... just go see your optometrist.
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post #13 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kherman View Post
OK, I think I got it.

Can someone model what a Marty like box is like in the WinSD app ....
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...tysub-faq.html
.... would sound like if I went with 20"20"x36"?

These are rough dimensions.

I have the app but time and learning curve are going to hold me back. I literally have work tomorrow all day and after work I hope to get things ordered. I just need to avoid regrets at this time.

Shoooting for dual 18s in tow seppperate ported boxes driven off a single inuke 3000. I think at this point, if those speakers will work in the box, I simply need to be convinced to upgrade the iNuke.
20" x 20" x 36" will work, but just barely... If you can increase one of the 20" dimensions to say 24" that would help a lot and give you better low end extension.

Since you're on a tight budget get the SI HT18's in D4, wire them in parallel to 2 ohm and run each on it's own channel of the 3000dsp. Gives you ~1100w to each sub. This is what I'm running and haven't had any issues and have plenty of bass.

Check out my End-Table Marty Build
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post #14 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 05:47 PM
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The 6000dsp is twice as powerful for not much more money.
But if you are on a budget then you gotta do what you gotta do...
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post #15 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
20" x 20" x 36" will work, but just barely... If you can increase one of the 20" dimensions to say 24" that would help a lot and give you better low end extension.

Since you're on a tight budget get the SI HT18's in D4, wire them in parallel to 2 ohm and run each on it's own channel of the 3000dsp. Gives you ~1100w to each sub. This is what I'm running and haven't had any issues and have plenty of bass.
I can turn one of those 20" dimensions to 24" but my wife is going to be pissed. It goes from tucked away to sticking out.

I think the 3000dsp is a go.

I think I would do one 18" driver to start. I can always add a second later.

The thing is, I am not totally sold on the 18" sub even though everyone says that it sounds better than the 15".

I like the idea of the Dayton Audio TS400D-4 15" Titanic Mk 4 Subwoofer. Since it is smaller, the smaller enclosure should be more agreeable and it has much greater excursion.

I could go dual 10" or 12" in a single cabinet (independent chambers internally, just one box.

Anyone do a build with the Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Coil yet?

I might get the 6000dsp asa one time buy and forget thing.

PS: I'm willing to be a guinea pig for hte UM18-22 18"er

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post #16 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I am set on 18" . I read enough threads saying that you might regret going smaller. Just go as big as possible and be done with it.

I am stuck at driver selection.

Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax
--- or ---
SI HT18

It seems like a coin flip. About ot beer up so I can double check the size that I can actually do when I make this.
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UM18
I has similar or more real world xmax:


read here:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=58
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post #18 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I just re-remeasured.

I can go 18" high x 20" deep and 36" wide

Now, the height component can fairly easily be increased by up to 6".

So, I think squiers007's comment can easily be addressed.

15" would be so much easier ....
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post #19 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 08:53 PM
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Not sure if the um18 will work well in a box that size. It really loves larger enclosures. Another driver to consider is the Dayton rss460-ho.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Check out my End-Table Marty Build
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post #20 of 97 Old 07-20-2015, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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If I go 18", I think that I have to go with the SI HT18 due to the enclosure size.

If I go 15" I can consider the Dayton Audio TS400D-4 15". I need to find a ported build that used it though. I think I need 6 cuft for this one.

My smallest (and desired) cab size is about 7.5 cuft.
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post #21 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 03:20 AM
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The Martysub challenge ... design in 24 hours!

Quote:
Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Not sure if the um18 will work well in a box that size. It really loves larger enclosures. Another driver to consider is the Dayton rss460-ho.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Not true at all. Using the TS parameters from data-bass, the UM18 models the same as the 460HO. If anything, based on the way my drivers measure, the HT18 D4 is the worst driver to use in a small vented box. 5CF tuned to 20 Hz for each.
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post #22 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Found someone using the 15" MK4.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post33464658


He went with the dimensions:
20W x 24D x 30H


paraphrasing:
Do a 1.75" high slot with a single splitter down the middle. Make the port 36" long, so the bottom board for the port will be 20.75" and the back board 14.5".


A rectangular port that is 21"x1.75" and 36" total inches long.
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post #23 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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If I get the egg crate bedding stuff to line the inside of the box, should I line the port also, or just the other parts?
I'm assuming that the port is not to be lined.
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post #24 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 10:27 AM
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Don't like the port and don't get the foam too close to the opening of the port inside the box either.
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post #25 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post
With my wood cut I had my martysub up and running within 4 hours.
1 Mississippi...
2 Mississippi...

Times up!
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post #26 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Attached pictures of my room incase people have other ideas. I was going to do one sub to the left of the entertainment center. If I did two, the other would go to the right.

The shelf behind the TV doesn't have enough room for a sub.

The two towers could go on platforms to allow for more height for the subs boxes.

Do I have to worry about my TV vibrating off the top of the console if I do actual large subs? I could add some wood blocking to the top to prevent the legs from moving. I'm not worried about it tipping off. Just worried about vibrations causing it to migrate.
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post #27 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I've broken down. I am playing with winisd using the speakers I am considering.

I don't know better so I am using the quasi-butterworth model.

Seems interesting how the trade offs in port cross sectional area, length and total box volume play into things. When considering volume, am I supposed to subtract the portion of the box that is taking up space for the port? Seems like I should.

It's scary how a HUGE of a PEAK can occur if you design the port incorrectly.
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post #28 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9woofer View Post
They can be matching. All the info you need is in the Martysub FAQ

Forget about 12" drivers. 18" has way more output.

If budget is tight, 2 minimarty with ht-18 D4's and NU3000 has decent output. Get the NU6000 if you can.
The HT18 D4 models are out of stock. I'd have to go D2 and do the 6000dsp.

I'm leaning towards the 6000dsp anyway. Doing so could remove that as a possible regret.
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post #29 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep trying to figure out a 15" solution but every time I do, I end up finding it to be unworkable due to enclosure sizes that are needed. That HT18 just looks harder and harder to beat.

I could do that with the 6000 DSP and be done.

This is going to be $1K by the time I am done though. No way around it though.
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post #30 of 97 Old 07-21-2015, 07:47 PM
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If you're constrained by space, just do two sealed DIYSG 4cuft flatpacks with the D2s or UM18s wired in series to 4ohm and a 6000DSP. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/sealed-...flat-pack.html

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