The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 1494 Old 02-03-2018, 02:02 PM
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Nice job. Recessed driver and ports on your first build is not easy, but looks like you got it right.

That garage/barn needs a few VBSS cabs.
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post #632 of 1494 Old 02-05-2018, 07:59 AM
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How did you paint that? Looks amazing.

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Originally Posted by Twedter View Post
stuff
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post #633 of 1494 Old 02-05-2018, 08:50 AM
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How did you paint that? Looks amazing.
It's the same way I found in the original MBM-12 thread by MTG90.

The finishing process was three coats of fastprime 2 primer (light sanding between coats):

Then three coats of Conco 9500 flat black paint:
https://www.menards.com/main/paint/e...0345360&ipos=1

Both applied with a fine 6" foam roller.

I think its a really professional looking flat black finish. Super smooth, not too dull looking. Looks even better in normal non super florescent lighting.
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post #634 of 1494 Old 02-06-2018, 01:44 PM
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So i want to build mine for 15HZ tune, so all i need is one large slot port with no brace down center? Do you brace the op part of it then? Sorry ive only ever built a flatpack and this will be my first cut and build
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post #635 of 1494 Old 02-06-2018, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by winty82 View Post
So I finally got started
One things for sure, these things are huge and imposing! I have no idea how some of you guys have so many of them in a room

Obligatory clamp picture
I dont see where your slot port is "open" i want the same thing youve built lol (15hz) any advice or detailed pics you can share?> this will be my first from scratch build
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post #636 of 1494 Old 02-06-2018, 03:08 PM
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Also this sub RMS states Power Handling (RMS) 500 watts, The iNuke 1000DSP only puts out like 600W in bridged mode so not sure how you would run two of these off of it.
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post #637 of 1494 Old 02-06-2018, 04:22 PM
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Driver is mostly excursion limited. The 1000 does a good job driving a pair bridged.
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post #638 of 1494 Old 02-06-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Driver is mostly excursion limited. The 1000 does a good job driving a pair bridged.
Thanks- first from scratch build and lot information...How would i build single sloted port? says 32" long but cabs only 20"D lol I Love the look of slotted better than precision ports- Does slotted port go to like 1" away from rear panel and up only box ive built was a sealed flat pack lol

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post #639 of 1494 Old 02-06-2018, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes the slot port will go along the bottom and up the back. You can place a brace down the middle if you want, just make the port 30" long instead of 32".
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post #640 of 1494 Old 02-13-2018, 04:20 PM
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Not going to lie, didn?t get all the way all the 64 pages of this post. Is there a post number with all the filters that were used in WiniSD? I was trying to model 2 of these vs 2 UM15-22 in similar 6cf ported boxes. I tried modeling with updates T/S parameters but need to add the correct filters to match. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #641 of 1494 Old 02-13-2018, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps not even the bottom of the first post which is where they are attached in a text file.

Edit, the winISD screenshot in the first post does not have any filters applied, it is just showing the max output graph with Pe changed to 300w (about what an inuke 300DSP will put into one sub) and xmax set to 8mm.
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post #642 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Perhaps not even the bottom of the first post which is where they are attached in a text file.

Edit, the winISD screenshot in the first post does not have any filters applied, it is just showing the max output graph with Pe changed to 300w (about what an inuke 300DSP will put into one sub) and xmax set to 8mm.
Hi, a bit of a noob question, but I'm trying to understand this. I am utilizing different driver, but very similar to PA460 and I don't use dynamic EQ but just normal param EQ filter which boosts 20 Hz output for 15dB with Q = 2. So, after filters, to prevent overexcursion I have to reduce system input power to 59 W, however...I notice two things. Cone excursion at 20 Hz is really low (3mm), but apparent amplifier power load around 20 Hz is around 500 VA. So, I am not sure whats going on here and what is true?
Does this setup require only 59W (17.3 V) to perform FLAT (obviously I am sacrificing output at higher frequencies, but I don't care for that right now). Or does amp still require significantly more power for this output at 20 Hz, so limiting amp to 17.3V would be a mistake?

THanks.

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post #643 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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When you apply EQ the system input power on winisd goes out the window. If you want to see how much power you can give the driver before pushing past xmax do that without any filters added.

If you are looking to see overall max level of the speaker when EQ'ed flat before you run into the limiter your best bet to load a driver and look at VA without any filters applied at the system input power you will be using then load another driver and add the EQ filters you will be using and increase system power on that one until a point on the VA curve touches the stock no filters driver.
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post #644 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Perhaps not even the bottom of the first post which is where they are attached in a text file.

Edit, the winISD screenshot in the first post does not have any filters applied, it is just showing the max output graph with Pe changed to 300w (about what an inuke 300DSP will put into one sub) and xmax set to 8mm.
Thanks, I saw the Inuke settings but thought there were filter used to bump up the output in winISD. I'm getting better at winISD but some of the advanced filters are still past my knowledge so I thought that is what you used. I'm pretty sure I downloaded all the updated drivers that you posted but I had the Pe at 500 still. This changed my output to match yours much better.

Thanks for the help
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post #645 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
When you apply EQ the system input power on winisd goes out the window. If you want to see how much power you can give the driver before pushing past xmax do that without any filters added.

If you are looking to see overall max level of the speaker when EQ'ed flat before you run into the limiter your best bet to load a driver and look at VA without any filters applied at the system input power you will be using then load another driver and add the EQ filters you will be using and increase system power on that one until a point on the VA curve touches the stock no filters driver.
Something like this?




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post #646 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 02:27 PM
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Has anyone done one of these with a plate amp over a dsp amp? I'm looking into something similar but want to make see if anyone else has a similar build.

Also looking at using a 12" instead of bigger..
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post #647 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelauir View Post
Has anyone done one of these with a plate amp over a dsp amp? I'm looking into something similar but want to make see if anyone else has a similar build.

Also looking at using a 12" instead of bigger..
I am using one with a plate amp. It will work, but the lower end drops off more than when using with EQ. It won’t be a flat frequency response.

If you go 12” it’s just a ported sub and you will have to do a complete redesign based on whichever woofer you choose. The VBSS is for the pa460.
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post #648 of 1494 Old 02-14-2018, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelauir View Post
Has anyone done one of these with a plate amp over a dsp amp? I'm looking into something similar but want to make see if anyone else has a similar build.

Also looking at using a 12" instead of bigger..
I am using the V.B.S.S. with Dayton SA240 plate amp and JBL CS1214. This amp has a high pass around 18-19 Hz and although it doesn't have dsp, I think it does a decent job. Also makes the build even cheaper. Kind of like a Flex 12 with a bigger box and much cheaper driver.
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post #649 of 1494 Old 02-22-2018, 08:17 PM
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I want to build one of these for a %100 music build in a small metal building shop/garage. I am thinking the original designer's 20hz tune and filters might have to be adjusted? For rap to country to reggae and dubstep what tune would you guys use? It will be powered by a bridged inuke 1000dsp.

If I built it as the original design how would it perform in the shop being it's a large space? Is 20hz too low a tune for music only? I noticed that the design allows to remove center part of ports for 31hz tune. Would I have to totally redo all the filters? Thanks
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post #650 of 1494 Old 02-23-2018, 01:47 PM
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So I'm a total noob on speaker building but am interested in building this sub and looking for some clarity and assistance. I do occasionally build stuff but i'm no master woodworker at all. I have tried to do as much research before posting but I feel like I could really use some help. Sorry for all the questions. I will try to write them up when I'm done with photos to help people like myself who feel lost completely among all the seeming experts helping other even more experienced experts.

So ALL the items I need to build the box are
a. 1x of the woofer here https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036
b. 2x of the flared ports here: https://www.parts-express.com/precis...e-kit--268-352
c. inuke 1000DSP
c. Terminals on the back to connect an amp to it. Not sure what to use as this is my first non-plug and play sub. Could someone post me a link/links to a product that would work well?
e. some filler/dampining material (whats best for this amp?)
f. 4x8' 3/4" sheet of MDF or plywood (does it matter which?). Plus a 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF/Plywood.
g. Wood glue
h. Speaker wire (what gauge?)

Other Questions:
1. I see mention of double baffle vs single baffle, Does it matter? Why one versus the other?
2. Does the port tube go all the way through the cabinet or just to the inside back of the sub (sorry this feels like a dub question but no one shows the back of the speaker or the inside when everything is there except the driver).
3. What screws to use for the port tube and the driver?
4. I see lots of info about tuning the sub but I don't understand this. I have watched some videos about it but they seem like if your designing the sub not making a prebuilt design.
5. If I'm using this for home theater what do I want 15, 20, 31hz? I always assumed lower would be better but I don't really know when to choose one or the other. What is meant by "plugged"
6. I know you get smother distribution of bass with multiple of these but this going to blow my socks off after only having one 12" Klipsch right? I know people might want more but for most people I don't need more than 1 or maybe 2 right? I guess I'm just making sure as this is an 18" sub to me that seems insane.

Tools needed.
1. Plunge router. I don't have one but need to get one as I have needed it in the past.
2. I have a chop saw and jig saw. I know a table saw would probably be preferred but I don't have one.
2. Screw driver
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post #651 of 1494 Old 02-24-2018, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelauir View Post
Has anyone done one of these with a plate amp over a dsp amp? I'm looking into something similar but want to make see if anyone else has a similar build.

Also looking at using a 12" instead of bigger..
Dayton has a new 250W DSP plate amp that would work well for $200.
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post #652 of 1494 Old 02-24-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
So I'm a total noob on speaker building but am interested in building this sub and looking for some clarity and assistance. I do occasionally build stuff but i'm no master woodworker at all. I have tried to do as much research before posting but I feel like I could really use some help. Sorry for all the questions. I will try to write them up when I'm done with photos to help people like myself who feel lost completely among all the seeming experts helping other even more experienced experts.

So ALL the items I need to build the box are
a. 1x of the woofer here link]
b. 2x of the flared ports here: link
c. inuke 1000DSP
c. Terminals on the back to connect an amp to it. Not sure what to use as this is my first non-plug and play sub. Could someone post me a link/links to a product that would work well?
e. some filler/dampining material (whats best for this amp?)
f. 4x8' 3/4" sheet of MDF or plywood (does it matter which?). Plus a 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF/Plywood.
g. Wood glue
h. Speaker wire (what gauge?)

Other Questions:
1. I see mention of double baffle vs single baffle, Does it matter? Why one versus the other?
2. Does the port tube go all the way through the cabinet or just to the inside back of the sub (sorry this feels like a dub question but no one shows the back of the speaker or the inside when everything is there except the driver).
3. What screws to use for the port tube and the driver?
4. I see lots of info about tuning the sub but I don't understand this. I have watched some videos about it but they seem like if your designing the sub not making a prebuilt design.
5. If I'm using this for home theater what do I want 15, 20, 31hz? I always assumed lower would be better but I don't really know when to choose one or the other. What is meant by "plugged"
6. I know you get smother distribution of bass with multiple of these but this going to blow my socks off after only having one 12" Klipsch right? I know people might want more but for most people I don't need more than 1 or maybe 2 right? I guess I'm just making sure as this is an 18" sub to me that seems insane.

Tools needed.
1. Plunge router. I don't have one but need to get one as I have needed it in the past.
2. I have a chop saw and jig saw. I know a table saw would probably be preferred but I don't have one.
2. Screw driver
Great questions. I hope they get answered, especially the one about the output. Is one of these going to hit like an entry level ID sub from say, svs or hsu that I could buy for $500 or so? 18" seems like a beast, but reading all these posts it sounds like you need several of these to get any decent output for deep bass. lots of people making 4 of these. I only have room for one.
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post #653 of 1494 Old 02-24-2018, 08:17 PM
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The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread

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Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Great questions. I hope they get answered, especially the one about the output. Is one of these going to hit like an entry level ID sub from say, svs or hsu that I could buy for $500 or so? 18" seems like a beast, but reading all these posts it sounds like you need several of these to get any decent output for deep bass. lots of people making 4 of these. I only have room for one.


Later tonight I’ll jump in answer those questions that where asked a few days ago. As for will these subs compete with other 500$ if subs here’s some graphs for you. Also remember using one inuke 3k amp you can can have several of the pa460 drivers powered by a single amp which is a huge savings. These are midbass monsters and your about needing several of these two get them to play loud at 20hz. But most on the forum are looking for 120db + plus worth of bass and want it for a cheap price. Here’s my two that I’m selling this week. I’ll be building two to four more once these are sell because they sound that good and the price is right.
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Last edited by eng-399; 02-24-2018 at 08:22 PM.
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post #654 of 1494 Old 02-25-2018, 05:22 AM
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[quote=eng-399;55751710]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Later tonight I?ll jump in answer those questions that where asked a few days ago. As for will these subs compete with other 500$ if subs here?s some graphs for you. Also remember using one inuke 3k amp you can can have several of the pa460 drivers powered by a single amp which is a huge savings. These are midbass monsters and your about needing several of these two get them to play loud at 20hz. But most on the forum are looking for 120db + plus worth of bass and want it for a cheap price. Here?s my two that I?m selling this week. I?ll be building two to four more once these are sell because they sound that good and the price is right.
I was thinking the pb12-nsd specifically that sell for $550 or the pb1000/vtf mk2 that hit hard and flat to 20hz. Is there a way to flatten out the mid bass range? Not sure what frequency, but my current sub is really hot with higher frequencies, and it can be piecing at times and overpowers the rest of the sound, but if I turn it down, I don't get any low end at all. Definitely not looking for 120db. I have my 200w sub turned up halfway and at -7 on the receiver. Will this work as a single sub? Is the bang for the buck mostly because you can have many of these run from one amp, making them cheaper/unit the more you make? Is there a single DIY option that would hit flat to 20 hz for less than I can buy a single DI sub that is comparable in size to this? If I spent $50-$100 more for a better driver, could I put it in here and get what I want, or is this box specifically for the one driver?I know ideally you want multiple subs, but I don't think I can get my wife on board to have 2 giant boxes in our already cramped living room.

Last edited by kingssoldier08; 02-25-2018 at 10:36 AM.
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post #655 of 1494 Old 02-25-2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
I was thinking the pb12-nsd specifically that sell for $550 or the pb1000/vtf mk2 that hit hard and flat to 20hz. Is there a way to flatten out the mid bass range? Not sure what frequency, but my current sub is really hot with higher frequencies, and it can be piecing at times and overpowers the rest of the sound, but if I turn it down, I don't get any low end at all. Definitely not looking for 120db. I have my 200w sub turned up halfway and at -7 on the receiver. Will this work as a single sub? Is the bang for the buck mostly because you can have many of these run from one amp, making them cheaper/unit the more you make? Is there a single DIY option that would hit flat to 20 hz for less than I can buy a single DI sub that is comparable in size to this? If I spent $50-$100 more for a better driver, could I put it in here and get what I want, or is this box specifically for the one driver?I know ideally you want multiple subs, but I don't think I can get my wife on board to have 2 giant boxes in our already cramped living room.
If you use EQ to flatten the sound of a sub, you typically limit its SPL to whatever it can reach at port tune. Unless you use dynamic EQ like VBSS does, in that case its flat until you go too crazy and it "turns back" into midbass monster.And you can't really put higher excursion driver in it...well, you can, but pretty close at or after peak output of typical vbss you will get tons of chuffing. You will need bigger box for sure.

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post #656 of 1494 Old 02-25-2018, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
If you use EQ to flatten the sound of a sub, you typically limit its SPL to whatever it can reach at port tune. Unless you use dynamic EQ like VBSS does, in that case its flat until you go too crazy and it "turns back" into midbass monster.And you can't really put higher excursion driver in it...well, you can, but pretty close at or after peak output of typical vbss you will get tons of chuffing. You will need bigger box for sure.
Is there a way to model this in winisd? It would be nice to play around with designs and find just what I want that suits my individual needs. That is the beauty of DIY, right? I am just really new to all this and am having a hard time replicating winisd values that I see on these designs and wonder what I'm missing.
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post #657 of 1494 Old 02-25-2018, 04:27 PM
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Are there very many guys using these VBSS's for music only?
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post #658 of 1494 Old 02-26-2018, 03:39 PM
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You can change the size of any dimension as long as you keep the internal volume the same. I made mine down firing end tables and it worked out well.

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Sorry if I missed it but do you have a build thread? Or perhaps you can share the dimensions you used? I am looking at end table designs and yours is one of the best I have seen so far.
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post #659 of 1494 Old 02-26-2018, 03:47 PM
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Sorry if I missed it but do you have a build thread? Or perhaps you can share the dimensions you used? I am looking at end table designs and yours is one of the best I have seen so far.
All pertinent information, including dimensions and cut lists, are on the first post of this thread.
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post #660 of 1494 Old 02-26-2018, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
All pertinent information, including dimensions and cut lists, are on the first post of this thread.
Thanks for the prompt reply. I was specifically wondering if that user had modified the dimensions to work better as an end table.
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