The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 1567 Old 02-26-2018, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
Are there very many guys using these VBSS's for music only?
I'm planning on building one for %100 music just trying to figure out what to tune it to.
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post #662 of 1567 Old 02-27-2018, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Diy_Audio_Guy View Post
I'm planning on building one for %100 music just trying to figure out what to tune it to.

Tune it for 20 Hz

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post #663 of 1567 Old 02-27-2018, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Is there a way to model this in winisd? It would be nice to play around with designs and find just what I want that suits my individual needs. That is the beauty of DIY, right? I am just really new to all this and am having a hard time replicating winisd values that I see on these designs and wonder what I'm missing.



Probably this. Yellow is flat(ish) response for VBSS. It would be simpler to say what are your needs (peak SPL, extension), budget and room space available and someone will surely help out with a model.

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post #664 of 1567 Old 02-27-2018, 05:53 PM
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I have 2 dayton dvc385-88 each tuned to 20hz in a 6.75 cubic foot box. Is it worth it for me to change to 2 V. B. S. S subs?
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post #665 of 1567 Old 02-27-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
So I'm a total noob on speaker building but am interested in building this sub and looking for some clarity and assistance. I do occasionally build stuff but i'm no master woodworker at all. I have tried to do as much research before posting but I feel like I could really use some help. Sorry for all the questions. I will try to write them up when I'm done with photos to help people like myself who feel lost completely among all the seeming experts helping other even more experienced experts.

So ALL the items I need to build the box are
a. 1x of the woofer here https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036
b. 2x of the flared ports here: https://www.parts-express.com/precis...e-kit--268-352
c. inuke 1000DSP
c. Terminals on the back to connect an amp to it. Not sure what to use as this is my first non-plug and play sub. Could someone post me a link/links to a product that would work well?
e. some filler/dampining material (whats best for this amp?)
f. 4x8' 3/4" sheet of MDF or plywood (does it matter which?). Plus a 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF/Plywood.
g. Wood glue
h. Speaker wire (what gauge?)

Other Questions:
1. I see mention of double baffle vs single baffle, Does it matter? Why one versus the other?
2. Does the port tube go all the way through the cabinet or just to the inside back of the sub (sorry this feels like a dub question but no one shows the back of the speaker or the inside when everything is there except the driver).
3. What screws to use for the port tube and the driver?
4. I see lots of info about tuning the sub but I don't understand this. I have watched some videos about it but they seem like if your designing the sub not making a prebuilt design.
5. If I'm using this for home theater what do I want 15, 20, 31hz? I always assumed lower would be better but I don't really know when to choose one or the other. What is meant by "plugged"
6. I know you get smother distribution of bass with multiple of these but this going to blow my socks off after only having one 12" Klipsch right? I know people might want more but for most people I don't need more than 1 or maybe 2 right? I guess I'm just making sure as this is an 18" sub to me that seems insane.

Tools needed.
1. Plunge router. I don't have one but need to get one as I have needed it in the past.
2. I have a chop saw and jig saw. I know a table saw would probably be preferred but I don't have one.
2. Screw driver

I know i ask a lot of questions so I understand the lack of response but can anyone help me answer any of my questions above? I know I’m not the only one as I saw another user interested in answers to these questions. Thank you in advance!
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post #666 of 1567 Old 02-27-2018, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
So I'm a total noob on speaker building but am interested in building this sub and looking for some clarity and assistance. I do occasionally build stuff but i'm no master woodworker at all. I have tried to do as much research before posting but I feel like I could really use some help. Sorry for all the questions. I will try to write them up when I'm done with photos to help people like myself who feel lost completely among all the seeming experts helping other even more experienced experts.

So ALL the items I need to build the box are
a. 1x of the woofer here https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036
b. 2x of the flared ports here: https://www.parts-express.com/precis...e-kit--268-352
c. inuke 1000DSP
c. Terminals on the back to connect an amp to it. Not sure what to use as this is my first non-plug and play sub. Could someone post me a link/links to a product that would work well?
e. some filler/dampining material (whats best for this amp?)
f. 4x8' 3/4" sheet of MDF or plywood (does it matter which?). Plus a 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF/Plywood.
g. Wood glue
h. Speaker wire (what gauge?)

Other Questions:
1. I see mention of double baffle vs single baffle, Does it matter? Why one versus the other?
2. Does the port tube go all the way through the cabinet or just to the inside back of the sub (sorry this feels like a dub question but no one shows the back of the speaker or the inside when everything is there except the driver).
3. What screws to use for the port tube and the driver?
4. I see lots of info about tuning the sub but I don't understand this. I have watched some videos about it but they seem like if your designing the sub not making a prebuilt design.
5. If I'm using this for home theater what do I want 15, 20, 31hz? I always assumed lower would be better but I don't really know when to choose one or the other. What is meant by "plugged"
6. I know you get smother distribution of bass with multiple of these but this going to blow my socks off after only having one 12" Klipsch right? I know people might want more but for most people I don't need more than 1 or maybe 2 right? I guess I'm just making sure as this is an 18" sub to me that seems insane.

Tools needed.
1. Plunge router. I don't have one but need to get one as I have needed it in the past.
2. I have a chop saw and jig saw. I know a table saw would probably be preferred but I don't have one.
2. Screw driver
Parts section:
c: Neutrik speakON connector to connect to the iNuke. Use the 4 pole versions to match the iNuke's speaker connections. For mine I put the speakOn panel mount on the back of the cabinet, then I made a cable with a 90 degree speakOn connector on one end (to allow the cabinet to be closer to the wall) and a regular speakOn connector for the end of the cable that goes to the iNuke. These connections twist and lock in place and can be bought at places like parts-express.
d: filler/damping - mtg90 (speaker designer) used denim insulation that can be bought at some big box stores (Home Depot, Lowes, Menards) or you can use mattress topper from somewhere like Walmart. If you use the mattress topper make sure it is open cell, don't get fancy memory foam.
f: MDF or plywood, both will work. Everyone has their own preference, I like MDF just because it is always exactly the same and the nice finish of birch plywood doesn't matter when the cabinet is flat black.
h: wire: I think I used 14 AWG that I had from a previous build

Other questions section:
1. Double baffle looks cleaner since the woofer is flat against the front of the cabinet, but single baffle is ok. I built mine single.
2. Port extends to within a few inches of the back of the cabinet. Don't cut a hole in the back!
3. Coarse grained screws work best for MDF, there are specialty MDF screws that you might be able to get in stock at your big box store.
4. There are three tuning choices (see the first post in the thread), if you are unsure and it is your first build 20Hz is a good first choice.
5. Plugged means putting something in the port that blocks the air which means it is no longer a port (it just acts like part of the box). You can use a balled up piece of fabric that fits tight (like a T-shirt), or I used some window insulation that is a thick spongy insulation (not fiberglass) to block one of my ports.
6. One will be awesome... How far you go after building the first is anyone's guess. Plenty stop at 1, it will cause vibrations all over the house, but plenty build 8 (or more)!


Tools needed:
1. Plunge router. Not necessarily needed. I use a jig saw and just cut on a circle. It doesn't come out perfect, but after a little sanding to smooth the circle it is fine. If you want to try the jig saw get a scrap piece of wood and see how smooth your circle cuts are!
2. Unless you are thinking about a table saw with rollers I would just get a nice circular saw with a long straightedge (I use a 6ft aluminum level that I clamp to the MDF). You could also get something like a BORA WTX Clamping Edge for the straight edge (Home Depot has BORA, Lowes/Menards has similar but different brands). Pushing a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" MDF through a table saw is not easy. Your local Home Depot will sometimes make cuts on their panel saw, but be VERY careful to double check their measurements.
4. Clamps: When you glue the pieces together you will need to clamp for at least 15-30 minutes (depending on your wood glue). Minimum is two clamps.
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post #667 of 1567 Old 02-27-2018, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
So I'm a total noob on speaker building but am interested in building this sub and looking for some clarity and assistance. I do occasionally build stuff but i'm no master woodworker at all. I have tried to do as much research before posting but I feel like I could really use some help. Sorry for all the questions. I will try to write them up when I'm done with photos to help people like myself who feel lost completely among all the seeming experts helping other even more experienced experts.

So ALL the items I need to build the box are
a. 1x of the woofer here https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036
No comment
b. 2x of the flared ports here: https://www.parts-express.com/precis...e-kit--268-352
No comment
c. inuke 1000DSP
No comment
c. Terminals on the back to connect an amp to it. Not sure what to use as this is my first non-plug and play sub. Could someone post me a link/links to a product that would work well?
For each end of the speaker cable https://www.markertek.com/product/nl...able-connector
For the box https://www.markertek.com/product/nl...aker-connector
To adapt the RCA out of your receiver to the input of the iNuke https://www.markertek.com/product/sp...-to-rca-female
e. some filler/dampining material (whats best for this amp?)
No comment
f. 4x8' 3/4" sheet of MDF or plywood (does it matter which?). Plus a 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF/Plywood.
I prefer MDF because voids in plywood can rattle (so I've read)
g. Wood glue
No comment
h. Speaker wire (what gauge?)
12 AWG for amp to box, 14 is fine in the box (driver to connector)
Other Questions:
1. I see mention of double baffle vs single baffle, Does it matter? Why one versus the other?
Double is less likely to flex, which means energy from cone movement is not wasted (more SPL)
2. Does the port tube go all the way through the cabinet or just to the inside back of the sub (sorry this feels like a dub question but no one shows the back of the speaker or the inside when everything is there except the driver).
Port tube opens to the room in front, other end opens to interior of box.
3. What screws to use for the port tube and the driver?
No comment
4. I see lots of info about tuning the sub but I don't understand this. I have watched some videos about it but they seem like if your designing the sub not making a prebuilt design.
Yes, it's already designed for a specific tune, nothing to do there.
5. If I'm using this for home theater what do I want 15, 20, 31hz? I always assumed lower would be better but I don't really know when to choose one or the other. What is meant by "plugged"
I'd say 15 Hz. Plugged means just what it says, Using foam, or a wadded up sock to plug a port effectively eliminates it, which changes the tune.
6. I know you get smother distribution of bass with multiple of these but this going to blow my socks off after only having one 12" Klipsch right? I know people might want more but for most people I don't need more than 1 or maybe 2 right? I guess I'm just making sure as this is an 18" sub to me that seems insane.
Bass wavelengths are long, and their reflections can interfere with each other in-room, causing peaks and nulls at the listening position. Moving the sub to a better location can help, but two (or four) sub locations means they can even out each other for a smoother frequency response.

Tools needed.
1. Plunge router. I don't have one but need to get one as I have needed it in the past.
2. I have a chop saw and jig saw. I know a table saw would probably be preferred but I don't have one.
2. Screw driver

Comments in red.

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post #668 of 1567 Old 02-28-2018, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Is there a way to model this in winisd? It would be nice to play around with designs and find just what I want that suits my individual needs. That is the beauty of DIY, right? I am just really new to all this and am having a hard time replicating winisd values that I see on these designs and wonder what I'm missing.




Probably this. Yellow is flat(ish) response for VBSS. It would be simpler to say what are your needs (peak SPL, extension), budget and room space available and someone will surely help out with a model.
Thanks. I'm looking for a low, clean response that I will also be able to feel in my chest when called for. I love the feeling of a pressurized room, but I know that is asking a lot from one sub . I have heard a klipsch 12wd that my brother in law has and really liked it (Best sub I've heard, which a very short list). Lots of punch that you can feel. The response was clean and detailed, but it did roll off pretty sharply for the really deep notes.
This price is good. I'll be using it for 95% movies/tv shows and 5% music (but I still like the punchy clean musical bass). I really don't need 120db. My subwoofer now (200w 12"pinnacle) is set at about half gain and turned down to about -7db on my receiver, which is never really turned up past about -20db ish on main volume. I'm no expert, so I will trust the opinions here. I have heard the mid bass is high in this sub. My current sub has powerful mid range and falls off with the low end. If I turn it up to hear the low end, the mid levels can be piercing and uncomfortable to listen to depending on the soundtrack. Is this with higher mid bass response going to be similar?
My room is about 14x20x8. Budget is about this vbss. $350-400 all in (I don't have an amp yet). Ideally after this I won't NEED to upgrade any time soon. My wife doesn't see the need to upgrade now, but I'm really unhappy with the sound of the current sub. I need a single sub that can do the best job possible for what I need. I might try to reuse my current sub as a near field sub for more feeling.
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post #669 of 1567 Old 02-28-2018, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Thanks. I'm looking for a low, clean response that I will also be able to feel in my chest when called for. I love the feeling of a pressurized room, but I know that is asking a lot from one sub . I have heard a klipsch 12wd that my brother in law has and really liked it (Best sub I've heard, which a very short list). Lots of punch that you can feel. The response was clean and detailed, but it did roll off pretty sharply for the really deep notes.
This price is good. I'll be using it for 95% movies/tv shows and 5% music (but I still like the punchy clean musical bass). I really don't need 120db. My subwoofer now (200w 12"pinnacle) is set at about half gain and turned down to about -7db on my receiver, which is never really turned up past about -20db ish on main volume. I'm no expert, so I will trust the opinions here. I have heard the mid bass is high in this sub. My current sub has powerful mid range and falls off with the low end. If I turn it up to hear the low end, the mid levels can be piercing and uncomfortable to listen to depending on the soundtrack. Is this with higher mid bass response going to be similar?
My room is about 14x20x8. Budget is about this vbss. $350-400 all in (I don't have an amp yet). Ideally after this I won't NEED to upgrade any time soon. My wife doesn't see the need to upgrade now, but I'm really unhappy with the sound of the current sub. I need a single sub that can do the best job possible for what I need. I might try to reuse my current sub as a near field sub for more feeling.
Ermm, well, heaps of tactile response happen after 100dB. One nearfield VBSS might be good for you. But, as funny as it may sound to someone, 108 dB flat is kinda low, I don't think you will get desired chest slam there. Without eq curve and with 120ish dB capability it might be much better, tho you will sacrifice some low end rumble. Having two VBSS will easily add you +6dB, and if you corner load both of them, you are in heaven.
O ye, i forgot VBSS also got 31Hz tune, that might as well be useful for music and more punch.

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post #670 of 1567 Old 03-04-2018, 01:01 PM
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@Augerhandle and @bitmap42 ,


Thanks sooo very much for all the help!!!! I have ordered the parts for two of these bad boys and we shall see how it turns out. I am sure i will be back with more questions.
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post #671 of 1567 Old 03-04-2018, 01:01 PM
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One question is for the amp should you get an inuke3000dsp or will a 1000 work for two of these?

Also where do people buy these from I see VASTLY different prices on them and don't want to get something fake.

Edit: I see that the intro article says a 1000 would work for two of these in "bridged mode". Could someone tell me what that means and how to do it?
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post #672 of 1567 Old 03-04-2018, 03:17 PM
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post #673 of 1567 Old 03-04-2018, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
One question is for the amp should you get an inuke3000dsp or will a 1000 work for two of these?

Also where do people buy these from I see VASTLY different prices on them and don't want to get something fake.

Edit: I see that the intro article says a 1000 would work for two of these in "bridged mode". Could someone tell me what that means and how to do it?
I would buy the 3000DSP since the price isnt much different and resale value is higher. I bought mine from parts express, where you can always find coupons to apply. the drivers, ports, speakon connectors and amp should make the bill high enough to get a 50 off.

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post #674 of 1567 Old 03-05-2018, 05:24 AM
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i built a pair of modified VBSS subs using the 15 version of the PA sub (designed by LTD02) and they sounded pretty good. I wasnt overwhelmed or anything, but still sounded good. I had them beside my couch facing the front wall..they were a little big there and I wasnt digging the looks. so i played around with placement and was able to move them up front and they came alive!! i ran them without my regular 18's and thought they sounded great. I gave my wife a demo and she couldnt beleive it when I told her my other 18s werent even playing...I could imagine anyone with 4 of these being more then happy.
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post #675 of 1567 Old 03-10-2018, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
One question is for the amp should you get an inuke3000dsp or will a 1000 work for two of these?

Also where do people buy these from I see VASTLY different prices on them and don't want to get something fake.

Edit: I see that the intro article says a 1000 would work for two of these in "bridged mode". Could someone tell me what that means and how to do it?
I'm currently running two of these from an inuke 1000DSP. I used speakon 2 pole at the subs and 4 pole at the amp to run in bridge mode. To use bridge mode, you need the 4 pole speakon with positive wired as 1+ and negative as 2+. If you use an inuke 1000 dsp, you will have to edit & save the .arp files to use bridge mode vs mono (iirc) since these files were created on the 3000 dsp version. You will also need to add the limiter at 71.5 volts.

This has been posted before but this impulse audio video is very helpful:

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post #676 of 1567 Old 03-11-2018, 12:43 PM
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When you have two of these on one iNuke channel, does that mean your EQ settings apply to both? Doesnt that mean you cannot individually EQ the subs for room placement when using bridge mode?
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post #677 of 1567 Old 03-11-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by joker927 View Post
When you have two of these on one iNuke channel, does that mean your EQ settings apply to both? Doesnt that mean you cannot individually EQ the subs for room placement when using bridge mode?
Yes. There are available PEQ/DEQ filters available for combined room EQ though.
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post #678 of 1567 Old 03-11-2018, 10:00 PM
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What tuning are you all using for your V.B.S.S? I have tried 15 Hz and 20 Hz and find the 15 Hz tuning option a bit anemic compared to 20 Hz even though the charts in the mainpost show significantly more output below 20 Hz with the 15 Hz option. It could be my room though. Curious how others perform in the two tuning modes.
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post #679 of 1567 Old 03-12-2018, 11:28 AM
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Is slot portoption viable still from one sheet or will more material be needed? Or what’s the easiest way to build the 15hz vs!?!?, my budget extremely limited as well as skill.
Does slot pot need to start in front of the side? Or would it be easier to use scraps and build one port square?
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post #680 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 09:15 AM
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Is slot portoption viable still from one sheet or will more material be needed? Or what’s the easiest way to build the 15hz vs!?!?, my budget extremely limited as well as skill.
Does slot pot need to start in front of the side? Or would it be easier to use scraps and build one port square?
From the quick looks of it, it might be enough material but board that runs down the depth of a cabined should be glued out of two pieces.

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post #681 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
From the quick looks of it, it might be enough material but board that runs down the depth of a cabined should be glued out of two pieces.
Yeah ill look into it, i was assuming that if building slot port it would also act as bracing so i wouldnt have to go nuts all over with it. Lot of info on square holes but no so much slots.. Trying find best option to go 15HZ with with little room to screw it up.
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post #682 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 01:02 PM
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While we are the topic of Slot Ported VBSS enclosures.... What would it take to build one that could be tuned for 20hz and the 31hz tunes? Like described above for the above for the 15hx/20hz
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post #683 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by petethekiller View Post
While we are the topic of Slot Ported VBSS enclosures.... What would it take to build one that could be tuned for 20hz and the 31hz tunes? Like described above for the above for the 15hx/20hz
I know i am not the smartest cookie to inform on this, but im pretty sure you cant do multiple tunes for slot port. Im pretty sure you would have to either build the ports or buy them Page 4 has a good Square port
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post #684 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petethekiller View Post
While we are the topic of Slot Ported VBSS enclosures.... What would it take to build one that could be tuned for 20hz and the 31hz tunes? Like described above for the above for the 15hx/20hz
From what I've been playing around with WinISD its pretty much a nightmare. For having 20 and 30 Hz tune with ports of same vent length so you can just plug few, your ports cross area should be a bit above twice the size of what is now for 20 Hz tune. Which adds to cabinet volume significantly.
You might build separate ports for 20 an 30 Hz tune and have one of them plugged at all times, but that adds to cabinet volume too.

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post #685 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
I know i am not the smartest cookie to inform on this, but im pretty sure you cant do multiple tunes for slot port. Im pretty sure you would have to either build the ports or buy them Page 4 has a good Square port


It can if you partition the slot port down the middle as mentioned in post somewhere back in the thread
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post #686 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarkoff500 View Post
I'm currently running two of these from an inuke 1000DSP. I used speakon 2 pole at the subs and 4 pole at the amp to run in bridge mode. To use bridge mode, you need the 4 pole speakon with positive wired as 1+ and negative as 2+. If you use an inuke 1000 dsp, you will have to edit & save the .arp files to use bridge mode vs mono (iirc) since these files were created on the 3000 dsp version. You will also need to add the limiter at 71.5 volts.

This has been posted before but this impulse audio video is very helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka6JiAxOJLM
You cant load up file and use it with 1000DSP? I remeber Inuke software being same for all versions as you download one basic program-- ill only be running 1 Sub so can i leave it as is but add limiter?

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post #687 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 04:47 PM
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Guess what im looking for is -- do i just lower voltage for single unit? Since DSP is provided. I dont want to cook driver- i want to be able to watch movie and not worry about it...Volume on AVR -30/-20 max
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post #688 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
You could possibly do two 3.5" square ports built at the bottom corners of the box. Make them 16" long from the baffle face (should be 3.25" behind the ports to the rear wall). That would allow you to use both and get the 21hz tuning or plug one and get the 15hz tuning.

Otherwise you could do a full width slot port that is 1.5" high, also 17" long from the baffle face (should be 2.25" clearance behind the port to the rear wall).

A 1 - 1.5" 90 degree lip should be added to the internal exit of the slot port to reduce turbulence and chuffing. Round overs should also be used on the port internal exit. Similar to what I did on this design at the port exit (Note this is not a VBSS enclosure):

So doing slot port will give 15HZ tune? Does in need brace? rather not have build something then plug it lol
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post #689 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
You cant load up file and use it with 1000DSP? I remeber Inuke software being same for all versions as you download one basic program-- ill only be running 1 Sub so can i leave it as is but add limiter?
Yes. You can load the .arp files from the inuke 3000 dsp into the inuke 1000 dsp but you have to edit some parameters once loaded. Change from stereo to bridged mode. Next set the peak limiter to 71.5 volts (default is 100 volts) and load to 8 ohm. This will 1/2 the volts/watts for a single sub (about 320 watts) and you should be good to go.
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post #690 of 1567 Old 03-13-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarkoff500 View Post
Yes. You can load the .arp files from the inuke 3000 dsp into the inuke 1000 dsp but you have to edit some parameters once loaded. Change from stereo to bridged mode. Next set the peak limiter to 71.5 volts (default is 100 volts) and load to 8 ohm. This will 1/2 the volts/watts for a single sub (about 320 watts) and you should be good to go.
Thank you! Im sorry im flooding forum with questions.. My first from scratch build, i really dont want to mess up the build and also dont want to cook it.
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