The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
it will be fine.


post 2 in this thread shows several connections. your speaker wires will have a speakon on one end. the wire from your avr to inuke will have an rca on one end and an xlr on the other.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...tysub-faq.html




this thing plugs into the amp.


https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...ector--092-190


connect your speaker wires to 1+ and 1- on the speakon for red/black on your sub.


same thing on channel B.


this cable is rca to xlr.


it goes from your "subwoofer" output on the avr to the input on the inuke.


https://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_...gLink2-2917105
Thank you!
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post #752 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
Direction doesn't really matter, whichever way works best for you or the room.
Awesome! Thanks!
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post #753 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 02:07 PM
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@LTD02

Instead of getting the Speakon Connector and wiring the speaker wire to it, am I able to use this instead?

https://www.amazon.com/MCSPROAUDIO-G...akon+to+banana

Also, I just want to confirm here - I can buy two of these (XLR to RCA) and the XLR side plugs directly into the INuke 3000DSP without any kind of adapater, correct?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Livewire...Audio-Cable.gc

So 2 x Speakon to Banana Plug, 2x XLR to RCA...and then I upload that file in the first post to my INuke and I'm ready to roll?
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post #754 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 05:35 PM
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First off, I apologize in advance for not thoroughly going through all 25+ pages of this thread to find the answers to my questions below. I am considering building a modified version of the V.B.S.S. (slightly taller and not as deep, but same volume) and hope someone can help with the following:

1) Based on the dimensions from mtg90 in the first post I calculate the ports ending up being ~2.25" away from the inside back of the cabinet. Is this correct? I would be placing the port on the side of my build vs. the front, trying to figure out where I have to bend the port to make it end up the proper distance away from a wall.

2) If I go through with this build I plan to move the 2 Infinity 1260s in my signature into new boxes up front and tune them more for MBM use. Modeling in WinISD so far tells me this is possible, maybe not ideal, but if so, how does one wire 3 subs to a single i3000DSP? I have 4-pole Neutrik connectors all the way around, if the iNuke is in stereo mode are all 4 poles "hot" at once on each channel? If so I'm thinking the 2 1260s on one channel, the PA-460 on the other.

Whew! Longer than I thought, sorry, but I do appreciate any insight anyone may be able to share.

Lastly, a big thanks to mtg90 and LTD02 (again) - as well as a bunch of others - for all they do for this community!
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post #755 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmagicjerk View Post
@LTD02

Instead of getting the Speakon Connector and wiring the speaker wire to it, am I able to use this instead?

https://www.amazon.com/MCSPROAUDIO-G...akon+to+banana

Also, I just want to confirm here - I can buy two of these (XLR to RCA) and the XLR side plugs directly into the INuke 3000DSP without any kind of adapater, correct?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Livewire...Audio-Cable.gc

So 2 x Speakon to Banana Plug, 2x XLR to RCA...and then I upload that file in the first post to my INuke and I'm ready to roll?

those will work.


there is a setting in the inuke (Configuration: Bi-AMP 1) that allows you to route the input from channel A through both of the outputs, so if you will be EQ'ing both subs the same in the AVR, then you only need only one XLR to RCA cable. biamp1 allows independent adjustment of each sub in the inuke itself.
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post #756 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
First off, I apologize in advance for not thoroughly going through all 25+ pages of this thread to find the answers to my questions below. I am considering building a modified version of the V.B.S.S. (slightly taller and not as deep, but same volume) and hope someone can help with the following:

1) Based on the dimensions from mtg90 in the first post I calculate the ports ending up being ~2.25" away from the inside back of the cabinet. Is this correct? I would be placing the port on the side of my build vs. the front, trying to figure out where I have to bend the port to make it end up the proper distance away from a wall.

2) If I go through with this build I plan to move the 2 Infinity 1260s in my signature into new boxes up front and tune them more for MBM use. Modeling in WinISD so far tells me this is possible, maybe not ideal, but if so, how does one wire 3 subs to a single i3000DSP? I have 4-pole Neutrik connectors all the way around, if the iNuke is in stereo mode are all 4 poles "hot" at once on each channel? If so I'm thinking the 2 1260s on one channel, the PA-460 on the other.

Whew! Longer than I thought, sorry, but I do appreciate any insight anyone may be able to share.

Lastly, a big thanks to mtg90 and LTD02 (again) - as well as a bunch of others - for all they do for this community!
@mtg90 may have a different view on this, but my inclination would be to just stick a brace in there at the same distance as the ports terminate from the back. that way the loading will be approximately the same.


conceptual, not to scale. baffles removed. ports coming in from the side. additional brace positioned same distance to rear of cab in the standard vbss.




output of the amp is Channel A 2+ and 2- are just in parallel with Channel B 1+ and 1-, so that both channels can go through a single cord.


just stick with 1+ and 1- on each channel, as that is the easiest way to keep everything straight and you already have the cables.


the 1260's gets wired in parallel and then attached to one channel 1+ and 1-.
the pa460 gets wired to the other 1+ and 1-.
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post #757 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Just curious i have my dials set half way so if i turn them up more & the red clipping light comes on I'm still not hurting the woofers ?
HMM i would love to know this aswell, i wont turn mine up to half but close would be cool for "some" movies. I have a issue with it drowning out the rest of the material but yea just to know i can if i wan to
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post #758 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Just curious i have my dials set half way so if i turn them up more & the red clipping light comes on I'm still not hurting the woofers ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
HMM i would love to know this aswell, i wont turn mine up to half but close would be cool for "some" movies. I have a issue with it drowning out the rest of the material but yea just to know i can if i wan to
Yes.

The red light is the limiter engaging not clipping, though if the limiter is off then it's indicating clipping. The Inuke pushes less power into an 8 ohm load then the RMS rating of the woofer so you won't really cook the woofer with too much power, also with the high pass enabled it's pretty hard to get the woofer into excursion trouble. I drove them with the red light nearly solid on plenty of movie scenes when testing the design and the drivers seemed to handle it just fine.
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post #759 of 1626 Old 04-10-2018, 10:16 PM
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So now that i have built my 2 VBSS, setup the inuke 3000dsp with the correct configuration file what’s next? Do I just plug them in and see if they sound good And enjoy them? I see other people mention of graphs and settings but I don’t understand how to do that or what to buy to do it, etc
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post #760 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 02:46 AM
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Is there a kind of 15" version of the VBSS? Primarily smaller and cheaper version.
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post #761 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 02:53 AM
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Is there a kind of 15" version of the VBSS? Primarily smaller and cheaper version.
Not sure on cheaper but https://www.diysoundgroup.com/bundle...s-modules.html have a look.
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post #762 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by thesmileman View Post
So now that i have built my 2 VBSS, setup the inuke 3000dsp with the correct configuration file what’s next? Do I just plug them in and see if they sound good And enjoy them? I see other people mention of graphs and settings but I don’t understand how to do that or what to buy to do it, etc
Connect them to the AVR plus go thur the AVR to make the correct setting....Also graphs from a free program called REW. But you will need a mic.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
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post #763 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 07:54 AM
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Is there a kind of 15" version of the VBSS? Primarily smaller and cheaper version.
The JBL CS1214 works well in the standard VBSS enclosure and looks like it would do pretty well in a 5 cft box. 20 hz tune only but would knock > $100 off the build price.
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post #764 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
@mtg90 may have a different view on this, but my inclination would be to just stick a brace in there at the same distance as the ports terminate from the back. that way the loading will be approximately the same.
Thanks John, was looking at something similar myself. Just wanted to verify end port space from wall in mtg90's build.

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output of the amp is Channel A 2+ and 2- are just in parallel with Channel B 1+ and 1-, so that both channels can go through a single cord.


just stick with 1+ and 1- on each channel, as that is the easiest way to keep everything straight and you already have the cables.


the 1260's gets wired in parallel and then attached to one channel 1+ and 1-.
the pa460 gets wired to the other 1+ and 1-.
Not experienced enough with wiring multiple subs, really do appreciate this, thanks.

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post #765 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 06:28 PM
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Questions about AMP

So just I read the entire thread, and I have read the document contained in the zip, but I just want to validate a couple things before I plug some things in...

I have almost completed 4xVBSS using the PA460s. I have an Inuke6000DSP. I ordered it because I may go with some different subs in the future, but I read that these subs on a concrete floor work better because tactile feel with low bass will be nonexistant unless I am practically destroying my house. This should give me good chest slam.

Just to make sure I am following this well enough...for now I could put the 2 front speakers on separate +1 -1 and two rear speakers on separate +2 -2 connectors, correct? I would then run both channels at 71.5vp. This would then allow me to independently EQ the front and rear speakers. Then later if I did add more subs, I could theoretically put them in pairs on these channels and up the limiter to 143 where I am running the VBSS subwoofers.

I know its listed as Channel A and Channel B, but when you set a limiter on the channel, it is applying to +1-1 / +2-2, correct? So if I set Channel A to 143VP (if i put them in series) then anything +1-1 will have that limit? Or is it when I set the VP on channel A that both +1-1 and +2-2 on channel A would be 143VP? I believe its the former way but please correct me if i am wrong.

Until I add different speakers to the mix or run these in series, there isn't any other changes I need to do for a 6000dsp? If there is something else I could tweak for better performance, please let me know. Thanks in advance!
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post #766 of 1626 Old 04-11-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lash444 View Post
So just I read the entire thread, and I have read the document contained in the zip, but I just want to validate a couple things before I plug some things in...

I have almost completed 4xVBSS using the PA460s. I have an Inuke6000DSP. I ordered it because I may go with some different subs in the future, but I read that these subs on a concrete floor work better because tactile feel with low bass will be nonexistant unless I am practically destroying my house. This should give me good chest slam.

Just to make sure I am following this well enough...for now I could put the 2 front speakers on separate +1 -1 and two rear speakers on separate +2 -2 connectors, correct? I would then run both channels at 71.5vp. This would then allow me to independently EQ the front and rear speakers. Then later if I did add more subs, I could theoretically put them in pairs on these channels and up the limiter to 143 where I am running the VBSS subwoofers.

I know its listed as Channel A and Channel B, but when you set a limiter on the channel, it is applying to +1-1 / +2-2, correct? So if I set Channel A to 143VP (if i put them in series) then anything +1-1 will have that limit? Or is it when I set the VP on channel A that both +1-1 and +2-2 on channel A would be 143VP? I believe its the former way but please correct me if i am wrong.

Until I add different speakers to the mix or run these in series, there isn't any other changes I need to do for a 6000dsp? If there is something else I could tweak for better performance, please let me know. Thanks in advance!

the easiest way to keep it straight is to use the 1+ and 1- speakon connection on Channel A for your front subs and the 1+ and 1- speakon connection on Channel B for your rear subs.


there are various ways to set the limiter. the "Channel Link" button in the software links the channels so an adjustment to Channel A will also appear on Channel B.


the 6000dsp won't have any trouble with a pair of 460's on each channel in parallel (very easy load), so it may reduce chances of overpowering the subs to just use parallel wiring and the standard voltage limits.
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Last edited by LTD02; 04-11-2018 at 11:47 PM.
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post #767 of 1626 Old 04-12-2018, 06:17 AM
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The JBL CS1214 works well in the standard VBSS enclosure and looks like it would do pretty well in a 5 cft box. 20 hz tune only but would knock > $100 off the build price.
20hz would be ideal for what I need it! Will have a look and model in winISD to see how well it would actually perform. Thanks!
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post #768 of 1626 Old 04-12-2018, 07:47 AM
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20hz would be ideal for what I need it! Will have a look and model in winISD to see how well it would actually perform. Thanks!
I hope it works out.
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post #769 of 1626 Old 04-13-2018, 08:17 PM
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They sound awesome 😁 Now I just need to paint them
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post #770 of 1626 Old 04-14-2018, 08:23 AM
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They sound awesome 😁 Now I just need to paint them
Looks good! I did the same thing with the wire grills. Inexpensive way to protect the drivers and I don't notice any significant sound difference.
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post #771 of 1626 Old 04-17-2018, 02:18 PM
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I was (am) pretty set on setting up the ported sub with the PA460-8 as prescribed. I came across some RSS 390 15" drivers for ~$100 each. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ProductDetails

Would these be considered an upgrade or downgrade from the 460 18"? The guy has two available, so another option i was considering making a single box with a 15 on 2 sides ported or non-ported. This might be a question for another day as to the utility of doing so. This is for home theater use. my only existing sub is a low end klipsch 10".

I checked out the product details and have made it through all of this and most of the Marty Sub discussion, but with my lack of experience I'm still having issues compare/ contrasting. I'm new to DIY speakers, so if the answer is obvious, my apologies.

Thanks

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post #772 of 1626 Old 04-17-2018, 05:10 PM
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I was (am) pretty set on setting up the ported sub with the PA460-8 as prescribed. I came across some RSS 390 15" drivers for ~$100 each. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ProductDetails

Would these be considered an upgrade or downgrade from the 460 18"? The guy has two available, so another option i was considering making a single box with a 15 on 2 sides ported or non-ported. This might be a question for another day as to the utility of doing so. This is for home theater use. my only existing sub is a low end klipsch 10".

I checked out the product details and have made it through all of this and most of the Marty Sub discussion, but with my lack of experience I'm still having issues compare/ contrasting. I'm new to DIY speakers, so if the answer is obvious, my apologies.

Thanks
Below I've shown a quick plot of one RSS390-HO in a 2.7cuft vented at 21hz vs one PA460 in a 7cuft vented at 21Hz. The RSS390 has 800 watts, the PA460 has 500 watts.

So, with the RSS390, you'll need more watts to get the same output, but with the PA460, you'll need a box twice as big. So it's up to you. The 390 may be able to dig a little deeper, with it's higher excursion, and being designed for lower end duty (FS = 19.5Hz) (vs PA460 Fs = 28.5Hz)

I've personally looked at those RSS drivers lately, and would love to build a couple boxes. Maybe sealed, maybe with Passive Radiators. ... Where did you find that deal??? Private sale?
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Below I've shown a quick plot of one RSS390-HO in a 2.7cuft vented at 21hz vs one PA460 in a 7cuft vented at 21Hz. The RSS390 has 800 watts, the PA460 has 500 watts.



So, with the RSS390, you'll need more watts to get the same output, but with the PA460, you'll need a box twice as big. So it's up to you. The 390 may be able to dig a little deeper, with it's higher excursion, and being designed for lower end duty (FS = 19.5Hz) (vs PA460 Fs = 28.5Hz)



I've personally looked at those RSS drivers lately, and would love to build a couple boxes. Maybe sealed, maybe with Passive Radiators. ... Where did you find that deal??? Private sale?


Thanks.

It was a local guy who was going to diy but ended up just buying something.

I downloaded that WINISD so I can run some of my own tests. Did you load that driver information manually from the sites specs or is there a wdr repository somewhere?

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post #774 of 1626 Old 04-17-2018, 08:52 PM
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Thanks.

It was a local guy who was going to diy but ended up just buying something.

I downloaded that WINISD so I can run some of my own tests. Did you load that driver information manually from the sites specs or is there a wdr repository somewhere?
I don't remember using a wdr file. I think I just put the parameters in myself.
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post #775 of 1626 Old 04-17-2018, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mons0160 View Post
I was (am) pretty set on setting up the ported sub with the PA460-8 as prescribed. I came across some RSS 390 15" drivers for ~$100 each. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ProductDetails

Would these be considered an upgrade or downgrade from the 460 18"? The guy has two available, so another option i was considering making a single box with a 15 on 2 sides ported or non-ported. This might be a question for another day as to the utility of doing so. This is for home theater use. my only existing sub is a low end klipsch 10".

I checked out the product details and have made it through all of this and most of the Marty Sub discussion, but with my lack of experience I'm still having issues compare/ contrasting. I'm new to DIY speakers, so if the answer is obvious, my apologies.

Thanks
there are a couple versions of the 390, are you talking about the -HF or -HO?
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post #776 of 1626 Old 04-17-2018, 10:50 PM
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@mtg90 Also on these VBSS are we going thur the sub out or pre out on the AVR ?

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post #777 of 1626 Old 04-17-2018, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
@mtg90 Also on these VBSS are we going thur the sub out or pre out on the AVR ?


Use the sub pre out on your avr just like any other subwoofer setup. If you used the lcr or surround channels you wouldn’t be able to use the crossover in the avr for when crossing over to your mains. I’ve never heard anyone setting this up different than that unless they want them to play up to 250hz?
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post #778 of 1626 Old 04-18-2018, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
there are a couple versions of the 390, are you talking about the -HF or -HO?


These are the HF.

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post #779 of 1626 Old 04-19-2018, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mons0160 View Post
These are the HF.

sketching with some broads strokes here, but the 390HF may be a better choice for a small sealed cab (3c.f. or so) and want a little more low end extension, but just a little.


the PA460 is the better choice if you can go with a medium to large ported cab. it will give up a couple db bottom end in exchange for a whole lot more top end 6db or so.


folks have built a variety of subs using each driver with good results and not always limited to these examples.


the 390hf is a also good choice for the f20 horn if you want to go that route. :-)
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post #780 of 1626 Old 04-19-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
Below I've shown a quick plot of one RSS390-HO in a 2.7cuft vented at 21hz vs one PA460 in a 7cuft vented at 21Hz. The RSS390 has 800 watts, the PA460 has 500 watts.
So, with the RSS390, you'll need more watts to get the same output, but with the PA460, you'll need a box twice as big. So it's up to you. The 390 may be able to dig a little deeper, with it's higher excursion, and being designed for lower end duty (FS = 19.5Hz) (vs PA460 Fs = 28.5Hz).
I've personally looked at those RSS drivers lately, and would love to build a couple boxes. Maybe sealed, maybe with Passive Radiators. ... Where did you find that deal??? Private sale?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
sketching with some broads strokes here, but the 390HF may be a better choice for a small sealed cab (3c.f. or so) and want a little more low end extension, but just a little. the PA460 is the better choice if you can go with a medium to large ported cab. it will give up a couple db bottom end in exchange for a whole lot more top end 6db or so. folks have built a variety of subs using each driver with good results and not always limited to these examples. the 390hf is a also good choice for the f20 horn if you want to go that route. :-)

One specific spot I have for a sub i can fit a ~24in-20in-20in (5.5cuft) box- under the bottom floating shelf pictured. That is definitely ideal spot numero uno. I could buy both those 390HF drivers as well. I understand the benefits of a bigger ported box but right now i can't put a big whopper in our room, so i'd have to keep it to the #1 sub max at 5.5cuft and a second not much bigger (preferably even smaller). My room is just about 3000cuft with one opening up to a hallway. I believe i mentioned this is for %90 movies and gaming, so i'd really like to hit those lower frequencies and get some punch out of it.

With my room parameters what would you recommend for a single sub setup?

I was also contemplating a single box with a driver facing the seating area and one facing the fireplace- Would two drivers in a single box provide enough benefit to make the added expense worth it, sealed or ported?

I'm not familiar with passive radiators, would this be a good application for them?

How about a 2 sub setup-
If sealed subs would be have a smaller footprint, would 2 sealed subs with these configurations be sufficient? Would i be missing much not going with ported or would 2 ported at this size (5.5cuft) be better?

Also- is mixing a ported and sealed sub okay, or does having two different kinds lead to equalization issues?

Much thanks!

If this is too much for this thread, i can start mine own as well.
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