The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 1499 Old 06-25-2018, 03:28 PM
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There has been a sudden change in WAF, potentially due to upcoming birthday. I can add a 2nd VBSS. But I must act now before possible reversion to old WAF value of only 1 VBSS.



People can't see the speaker though, her rule. I have a cubby in the wall that is coincidentally the exact size of the VBSS cabinet. This means I just need to cover the driver and ports with some acoustically invisible material. I'd like to build something nice-looking, like a whole front piece, that I can attach and detach. Maybe with magnets. Does anyone have ideas?
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post #932 of 1499 Old 06-25-2018, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk123 View Post
I think you’re right about the sealed cab for the PA460. Just ......NO !
...
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Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
...
Yeah if it is cost prohibitive then I can try using a skill saw + chop saw to do it myself. Otherwise I only see the 4cuft sealed flatpacks on DIYSG, but guessing the PA460s won't sound very good sealed? Thanks!
To be honest, it depends on if you are looking for bass down low from your PA460 or just mid bass down to say 40-50Hz. @BassThatHz seems to have shown that sealed is viable (even though he does use a few more than most of us might try to use. With 16 PA-460 drivers in sealed configuration it seems like he is flat down into the single digits. Yes, 50Hz and up had to be eq'd drastically. But again if you are adding the PA-460s for mid bass, it seems like sealed is an option if you have limited space available. BTH is running them in 2cu ft per driver and they model fine even in that small of an enclosure. Just not flat without EQ. 4 cu ft is a bit better.

From other thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...cursion-2.html

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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The dual Octal-Opposed PA-460's sub I built is a good way to get lots of bass in a small space.
Nothing beats it for it's price range and size range.





115db @ 1m @ 2 watts
Handling is: 8,000W RMS 16,000W burst -> 150db @ 1m

Not bad for $90 x 16 + an amp.

You COULD beat it by 18db @ tuning, but it would have to be 16 B&C 18's ported or horned.... (which would take up WAY more space than 3sqft of floor space. Like 4-8x more space...) and thousands of dollars more expensive.

I think both the UM-18 and servo-drive is jealous of that THD chart. hehe!
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post #933 of 1499 Old 06-25-2018, 06:08 PM
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Ok. I understand the frequency output part. But, aren’t his sealed PA460s nearfield ? It seems like that would allow them to work better sealed, and seems like if they were further away, ported would be better ?
Is this over-generalizing?
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post #934 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 10:26 AM
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So if i build a second one it will reduce the "load" on the other one? we were watching Interstellar last night and looked like the VBSS with its settings it place wanted to jump out of the box lol. I know these have a very limited Xmax- compared to say a HF/HO or ultimax.
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post #935 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
So if i build a second one it will reduce the "load" on the other one? we were watching Interstellar last night and looked like the VBSS with its settings it place wanted to jump out of the box lol. I know these have a very limited Xmax- compared to say a HF/HO or ultimax.
A second one could if you want it to take some load if you are amp limited. Otherwise a second will even out the bass throughout the room and if not amp limited will just have 2 wanting to jump out of the box. .


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post #936 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 10:50 AM
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A second one could if you want it to take some load if you are amp limited. Otherwise a second will even out the bass throughout the room and if not amp limited will just have 2 wanting to jump out of the box. .
Err- thats what i was afraid of, i love this sub but i worry about it to much watching movies. I only have the Front gain on 3-4 notches- i want to set it and not worry about it. But also dont want to give up my crazy LFE- depending on room layout i was seeing 8HZ at 75DB
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post #937 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
Err- thats what i was afraid of, i love this sub but i worry about it to much watching movies. I only have the Front gain on 3-4 notches- i want to set it and not worry about it. But also dont want to give up my crazy LFE- depending on room layout i was seeing 8HZ at 75DB
A second sub will also gain you +3dbs. Volume wise you could turn it down to still hit your 75.


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post #938 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 11:17 AM
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Do you have an inuke and are you driving it with the settings provided at the top of the thread? If yes, im not sure how worried i would be if you are getting the results that you want... worst case is you damage the $90 pa460 and have to replace it. At that point, you would know you needed to tweak something.

On the other hand, they are cheap and it would be an easy experiment to build another to see if it helps.

Edit: also curious, are you running the 15hz tune? Are you using peq to increase response below port tune?



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post #939 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
Do you have an inuke and are you driving it with the settings provided at the top of the thread? If yes, im not sure how worried i would be if you are getting the results that you want... worst case is you damage the $90 pa460 and have to replace it. At that point, you would know you needed to tweak something.

On the other hand, they are cheap and it would be an easy experiment to build another to see if it helps.

Edit: also curious, are you running the 15hz tune? Are you using peq to increase response below port tune?



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Yes i use the 15HZ tune- slot ported mine. And i use all provided settings and i dont alter them at all. Granted you are correct its a cheap driver, prefer not to replace it anytime soon. Discussing it with the wife what she wants to do, she loves this as much as i do so its not a WAF issue.
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post #940 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
Yes i use the 15HZ tune- slot ported mine. And i use all provided settings and i dont alter them at all. Granted you are correct its a cheap driver, prefer not to replace it anytime soon. Discussing it with the wife what she wants to do, she loves this as much as i do so its not a WAF issue.
Cool. Im one of the lucky ones like you to have a wife with virtually no WAF... although i can't say she loves it in any way. She just lets me enjoy it because she know its something i care about. Lol We'd be in big trouble if she liked it just as much as me.

I have 2 of these nearfield (they sit RIGHT next to each other) and i get about +3db by running them dual. I only run them from 30hz up though (ive got a full marty and fv25hp handling below 30hz). I think you'd notice some difference, but i dont know how much it would or wouldnt reduce the excursion.

Since you are using all recomended settings, i would hope that you are ok.

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Equipment: Yamaha 3050, Oppo 103d, DIYSG HT12s (L,C,R), PSA mt 110s (SR,SL), 2 VBSS, Submaximus, 4 driver BOSS build, umik-1, Epson 3700
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post #941 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 03:04 PM
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I thought about building entertainment center - but my worries is what about vibrations? i set my AVR ontop my VBSS to keep it away from demon children hands- and its on 4 Styrofoam pieces and it shakes the stuff violently- Granted they are not Solid blocks or squishy foam but components will be okay in there? Ill have AVR inuke and HTPC- whats best way to protect them from death by VBSS as well as the 55" TV that would be on top- scary to think of the damage that would cause

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post #942 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
I thought about building entertainment center - but my worries is what about vibrations? i set my AVR ontop my VBSS to keep it away from demon children hands- and its on 4 Styrofoam pieces and it shakes the stuff violently- Granted they are not Solid blocks or squishy foam but components will be okay in there? Ill have AVR inuke and HTPC- whats best way to protect them from death by VBSS
Dual opposed box and/or appropriate bracing.
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post #943 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 03:26 PM
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Dual opposed box and/or appropriate bracing.
My current VBSS is slot ported out the side so no room for any more bracing other than the port running along and up the box- Would adding more reduce the vibrations and maintain tune?
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post #944 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 07:32 PM
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Should i stiffen the "Upper"portion of my build/? If im going to be putting a TV i feel like its not safe.
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post #945 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes you need internal bracing which keeps the walls of the cabinet from flexing. The more you add the more inert the cabinet will become.

Example:
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post #946 of 1499 Old 06-26-2018, 10:03 PM
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^ the spacing looks about right . . .

what is being detonated inside the box that you don't want the sides to bulge outward?

LORDY BE!
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post #947 of 1499 Old 06-27-2018, 01:59 PM
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Well DANG! i have basically no bracing then- going to be a pain in the butt add it now
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post #948 of 1499 Old 06-27-2018, 05:52 PM
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Well DANG! i have basically no bracing then- going to be a pain in the butt add it now
Not really. Just cut some pieces and install them through the driver opening. They don’t have to be big ( like 2 x 4s ). 1 x 1s or 1 x 2s are fine. You’ll want them to be as close dimensionally as possible. Get them in at a slight angle wherever you can reach , then hold one end still against the interior panel while tapping the other end with something until flush. Run some glue around the joint wherever you can reach. Let dry. Done.
You probably only need 4 or so Front to back, and the same side to side. They don’t have to be symmetrical, just try to get them in the middle half of each panel. That’s the part that will flex the most.

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post #949 of 1499 Old 06-27-2018, 07:22 PM
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So with this design volume of the cabinet doesn't matter or does the tuning change so little with 2cuft of bracing that it's ok to over brace?
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post #950 of 1499 Old 06-27-2018, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Well you shouldn't have 1/3 the box volume used up by bracing, that's way too much.

You can add more bracing then I show on the first page but it's not really necessary. The image I posted above is from a pair of custom sub boxes I built using 1/2" plywood and I went a little overkill with the cross bracing.
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post #951 of 1499 Old 06-27-2018, 11:34 PM
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Well I just bought two so I'll see how it goes down the track with this design! Ended up at $300US delivered to Australia ($408Aus) which is excellent considering they are still $470 each here plus delivery!
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post #952 of 1499 Old 06-28-2018, 09:34 AM
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Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but if a VBSS with a 31Hz tune is integrated with subs tuned to 15Hz, would using a crossover of 30Hz (on the VBSS) avoid possible phase issues caused by different tuned cabs?

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post #953 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 08:00 AM
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Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but if a VBSS with a 31Hz tune is integrated with subs tuned to 15Hz, would using a crossover of 30Hz (on the VBSS) avoid possible phase issues caused by different tuned cabs?
Thats what i did and it is working well for me. I adjusted the crossover a couple times slightly to find the best response.

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Equipment: Yamaha 3050, Oppo 103d, DIYSG HT12s (L,C,R), PSA mt 110s (SR,SL), 2 VBSS, Submaximus, 4 driver BOSS build, umik-1, Epson 3700
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post #954 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 09:39 AM
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Any chance some folks can chime in on wiring scenarios? I am in the process of getting everything ordered (Thanks BryceDH!!!). It looks like I have to use NL4 cables is this correct? I am assuming yes because this is both sending a signal and power to the speaker? What is the most cost effective wiring solution from speaker to inuke and inuke to RCA on receiver? I am going to have to get into my walls and ceiling for a 50 foot run so that sucks. Both of these subs will be directly behind the MLP in the center of my room.

So far this is what I believe will happen, 1 of these on each sub, https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...mount--092-054 Neutrik NL4MPR Speakon Connector 4 Pole Round Chassis Mount

Then I will have to run 2 x 50ft NL4 Monoprice 50ft 2-conductor NL4 Female to NL4 Female 12AWG Speaker Twist Connector Cable. https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

From inuke to receiver, https://www.parts-express.com/rca-ja...plug--091-1010.

The VBSS will be landing on the same subwoofer input on my receiver (Denon 6200) so I should only need 1 RCA mono plug and 1 RCA cable?

Is there a better or easier way?

Thanks!!!
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post #955 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyK
epic build

How heavy is that piece you built? I might build it but I would need it to go up a flight of stairs. I guessing very heavy. Does it shake at all? I mean, if you put a wine glass on it, at full volume would the glass move?
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post #956 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCramers View Post
she loves this as much as i do so its not a WAF issue.
IF this is the case, and you have the space....add 2 FULL MARTYs with RSS460 or UM18 and you will really hear what Interstellar has going on......

P.S. Just so you know, I LOST a whole set of dishes and 4 glasses to that movie.... They just slid off the kitchen counter (in a separate room) during the rocket launch.....

Be CAREFUL...... this rabbit hole is MILES DEEP!!!

Juju
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post #957 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 01:24 PM
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Ok, I believe I have this sorted, I need some people smarter than I to sign off! (That should be easy folks! :P)

This will be on back of VBSS, https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...mount--092-059

I can then use this, https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...mount--092-198 and wire in positive and negative I’ll need through the walls and ceiling where I’ll put this on the other end to plug into the inuke?
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post #958 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 01:38 PM
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Ok, I believe I have this sorted, I need some people smarter than I to sign off! (That should be easy folks! :P)

This will be on back of VBSS, https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...mount--092-059

I can then use this, https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...mount--092-198 and wire in positive and negative I’ll need through the walls and ceiling where I’ll put this on the other end to plug into the inuke?
Yes, positive to positive, negative to negative.


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post #959 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Yes, positive to positive, negative to negative.
Is it that simple? Regular speaker wire from driver to clamp to the NL2MP. Then simply run speaker wire and use 2 of the NL2FX on the ends to inuke? I am about to order everything up!!
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post #960 of 1499 Old 06-29-2018, 02:06 PM
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Is it that simple? Regular speaker wire from driver to clamp to the NL2MP. Then simply run speaker wire and use 2 of the NL2FX on the ends to inuke? I am about to order everything up!!
Yes +1 to positive, -1 to negative. Yes it is that simple.


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