The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 38 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 1468 Old 09-19-2018, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueclifford View Post
I'm having trouble understanding one concept. Why wouldn't you want to tune a box to the lowest possible hz the driver is capable of? Just as an example, what are the negatives of tuning the slot of the vbss to 20hz instead 30hz?
Depends on intended usage. While the PA-460 in my modified VBSS design will do F3 @ ~16.5Hz in my room, it's still a PA woofer designed for 30 - 35Hz and up. So the lower we push it, the more distortion expected (whether you or I can hear it is debatable, I'm very happy with mine).

Other drivers are designed for lower tune. And many here find the "chest-thump" is the real reaction they are looking for, which is typically found in the higher bass range (60 - 150Hz or higher). Using drivers (in appropriate boxes) that handle the ranges required is quickly becoming the norm from my observation - Build specific boxes with specific drivers for ULF, and the same for midbass.

TL;DR - The right driver (in the right box) should be used for the FR response required.
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post #1112 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 06:21 AM
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Can a crown xls 1502 drive 4 of these (2 per channel) to max output before excursion/distortion? Debating running 4 modified versions of these (similar net volume, but tuned to 40hz) off either a nx3000dsp or a crown xls1502 - I know the nx is better value but I’m not sure I want to deal with the fans for a $100 difference in price (I already have a minidsp with extra output channels) if the xls 1502 can run 4 of these or modified versions tuned higher to 40hz.

Edit: I’ve seen people previously mention an inuke 3k could run 4 of these per channel but I don’t get the math - I think inuke3k puts out 600watts At 4 ohms, which would be 300/drive if running 2. If running 4 at a combined 2ohm load, that would get 1000watts total or 250/driver. Don’t these want something like 500watts/driver?

Last edited by rukus29; 09-25-2018 at 06:26 AM.
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post #1113 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
Can a crown xls 1502 drive 4 of these (2 per channel) to max output before excursion/distortion? Debating running 4 modified versions of these (similar net volume, but tuned to 40hz) off either a nx3000dsp or a crown xls1502 - I know the nx is better value but I’m not sure I want to deal with the fans for a $100 difference in price if the xls 1502 can run 4 of these or modified versions tuned higher to 40hz.
It will run 2. 300x2 @ 8 ohms.

IMO this is about the minimum power you'd want for the PA460.

1550 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged mono is too much power for a pair of PA460s.

525 x 2 @ 4 ohms is not really enough to run 4 VBSS, you're at about 262 per speaker. It will run them, but I think its a little anemic.

Also, no DSP.

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post #1114 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
It will run 2. 300x2 @ 8 ohms.

IMO this is about the minimum power you'd want for the PA460.

1550 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged mono is too much power for a pair of PA460s.

525 x 2 @ 4 ohms is not really enough to run 4 VBSS, you're at about 262 per speaker. It will run them, but I think its a little anemic.

Also, no DSP.
That’s what I was thinking too but then I added my edit in my original post which mentions ppl saying running 8 of these off an inuke3k.
An inuke3k will *get each driver 300watts only anyway if running two at 4ohm total load. It’s not like it’s getting them 500 Watts/driver or am I missing something?
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post #1115 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post
That’s what I was thinking too but then I added my edit in my original post which mentions ppl saying running 8 of these off an inuke3k.
An inuke3k will *get each driver 300watts only anyway if running two at 4ohm total load. It’s not like it’s getting them 500 Watts/driver or am I missing something?
Nope I think you got it.

I'm running a pair on a 1000DSP which gets each speaker about 375 watts per speaker and its about perfect for this speaker. In fact, I wouldn't mind being closer to 400.

EDIT: This is wrong, disregard, this is an 8 ohm load not a 4 ohm load: Now that I take a 2nd look at it, you could run bridged mono 1550 x 1 @ 4 ohms and run all 4 speakers in parallel/series and get about 387 watts per speaker. About perfect.

So, I think your best bets for running 2 or 4 speakers are 2 @ 300 8 ohm with 2 speakers or 1 @ 1550 4 ohm with 4 speakers.

Yes, you can make some noise running 4 in 2-channel mode @ 4 ohms but I IMHO I think you will be disappointed with the performance.

Obligatory disclaimer: I have not tried running a PA460 at that wattage so YMMV. I did try running one at 110 watts and it barely made any noise before clipping.

HTH.

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post #1116 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Running four subs off the 1502 will still be 4-5dB louder then just running two of them. Even if each sub receives less power individually you are still doubling your radiating surface and increasing output power overall.
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post #1117 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 10:36 AM
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Guys, I can not source a NU3000DSP, so I am looking for any alternatives, any suggestions? Is the new Behringer model able to use the same config files or how easy is to adapt the config file to the new units?

Any help is highly appreciated.
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post #1118 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 11:35 AM
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post #1119 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starcat View Post
Guys, I can not source a NU3000DSP, so I am looking for any alternatives, any suggestions? Is the new Behringer model able to use the same config files or how easy is to adapt the config file to the new units?
Any help is highly appreciated.
https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-NU3...dp/B005EHINAS?

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/185...yABEgLn9_D_BwE

https://www.samash.com/behringer-inu...SABEgKtjfD_BwE

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post #1120 of 1468 Old 09-25-2018, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
Nope I think you got it.

I'm running a pair on a 1000DSP which gets each speaker about 375 watts per speaker and its about perfect for this speaker. In fact, I wouldn't mind being closer to 400.

EDIT: This is wrong, disregard, this is an 8 ohm load not a 4 ohm load: Now that I take a 2nd look at it, you could run bridged mono 1550 x 1 @ 4 ohms and run all 4 speakers in parallel/series and get about 387 watts per speaker. About perfect.

So, I think your best bets for running 2 or 4 speakers are 2 @ 300 8 ohm with 2 speakers or 1 @ 1550 4 ohm with 4 speakers.

Yes, you can make some noise running 4 in 2-channel mode @ 4 ohms but I IMHO I think you will be disappointed with the performance.

Obligatory disclaimer: I have not tried running a PA460 at that wattage so YMMV. I did try running one at 110 watts and it barely made any noise before clipping.

HTH.
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Running four subs off the 1502 will still be 4-5dB louder then just running two of them. Even if each sub receives less power individually you are still doubling your radiating surface and increasing output power overall.
I ordered an NX3000D just to keep it simple and because I got a good deal on it (for anyone looking, call vip pro audio in Brooklyn, ny and negotiate a lower price - you can also make them an offer on eBay; they are authorized Behringer retailer FYI)
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post #1121 of 1468 Old 09-26-2018, 09:07 AM
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I am Germany, no chance over here. Need to look for alternatives or the new versions!?
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post #1122 of 1468 Old 09-26-2018, 09:54 AM
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I am Germany, no chance over here. Need to look for alternatives or the new versions!?



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I feel your pain mate and although I can get most products here in Australia we get raped in doing so! I like to support my country but when I can purchase items from the US and even with there massive delivery fees the items still come in at 20% cheaper AND normally arrive faster than my own country can deliver items....
Sadly now Australia has a tax on every OS purchase (used to only be over $1k) so we get screwed either way but I still reckon it'd be cheaper and especially for home theatre etc!
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post #1123 of 1468 Old 09-26-2018, 11:16 AM
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I am Germany, no chance over here. Need to look for alternatives or the new versions!?



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Germany has amazon.de


https://www.amazon.de/Behringer-NU30...ords=nu3000dsp

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post #1124 of 1468 Old 09-26-2018, 02:34 PM
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Of course, but this is double the price and actually from a Marketplace seller *and* they actually don't have it! Listing says they'll ship in 2-3 days, of course after ordering from a distributor, the funny thing is that no distributor carries the iNuke any longer. Tried a couple and got a cancelation from everywhere.

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post #1125 of 1468 Old 09-26-2018, 02:36 PM
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Do the Nuke's (like the NU3000DSP) sold in the US have a build in universal power supply, i.e. 100-240 volts or is it purely 110 volts? Can somebody from the US check and confirm this?

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post #1126 of 1468 Old 09-26-2018, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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No I believe they are 100/120v only.

Edit remembered this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...110v-220v.html
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post #1127 of 1468 Old 09-28-2018, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
No I believe they are 100/120v only.



Edit remembered this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...110v-220v.html


Wow, thanks very much! Highly appreciated!

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post #1128 of 1468 Old 09-30-2018, 10:40 AM
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Just saw this today, the cheapest i have seen for a Behringer NX3000D but they are not in stock yet (estimated to be in stock: Oct 8, 2018):
https://www.musicstore.de/en_LV/EUR/...PAH0020372-000
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post #1129 of 1468 Old 09-30-2018, 10:45 AM
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EU/Germany
Just saw this today, the cheapest i have seen for a Behringer NX3000D but they are not in stock yet (estimated to be in stock: Oct 8, 2018):
https://www.musicstore.de/en_LV/EUR/...PAH0020372-000
The new design is amazing and they also have the USB interface. Do anyone know if the new series would be compatible with the older one via the USB interface?

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post #1130 of 1468 Old 09-30-2018, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I read in one of the threads here where someone tried in and found that the inuke remote connect software does not work with the new NX amplifiers. Behringer has also yet to release new software compatible with these amps.
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post #1131 of 1468 Old 10-01-2018, 06:09 AM
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I have another quick question, I apologize if it has been asked before.

I got an iNuke 1000 DSP, and I have gone through all the steps to load the DSP settings into the presets, no problems there. But looking at them vs. the settings for entering them manually, some of the settings are different, mainly the ones for limiting. Should the settings that get entered when you download an arp. file be the same as the settings that are on the text file for non-iNuke amplifiers? I'm using all the info on page 1 of this thread.
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post #1132 of 1468 Old 10-01-2018, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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If you are using a 1000DSP you will have to manually switch it to bridged mode and adjust the limiter settings to match that in the text file. The limiter settings in the ARP files are designed for the 3000DSP and the 1000DSP can't deliver the required voltage/power in its normal dual channel modes it has to be in bridged mode.
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post #1133 of 1468 Old 10-01-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
If you are using a 1000DSP you will have to manually switch it to bridged mode and adjust the limiter settings to match that in the text file. The limiter settings in the ARP files are designed for the 3000DSP and the 1000DSP can't deliver the required voltage/power in its normal dual channel modes it has to be in bridged mode.
Thanks! So the info in the .txt file is correct for the 1000dsp?
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post #1134 of 1468 Old 10-01-2018, 12:33 PM
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I'm running two with the 1000DSP with great results.
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post #1135 of 1468 Old 10-01-2018, 01:25 PM
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Is there a benefit if using an Inuke 3000 vs 1000 for dual VBSS? I’m currently using a plate amp and I want to upgrade so I can use the dynamic eq curve with the DSP.

I don’t think I will ever add more subwoofer in this room due to waf and honestly 2 of them are plenty for me. It’s loud enough 😅

I’m just wondering if I would be leaving some output on the table with the Inuke 1000, you know for these occasionnal party that might occur. I might need a higher hpf kn this case to prevent over excursions.
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post #1136 of 1468 Old 10-01-2018, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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The inuke 1000 in bridged mode will deliver more power to the 4 ohm load then the 3000 does in stereo, so if you are sticking with just 2 subs there is no reason to upgrade.
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post #1137 of 1468 Old 10-03-2018, 05:28 PM
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Ok I am struggling with what to do here. Currently I am running a hst-18 in a Johnny sub. Its sounds great and has great ulf. I was looking to add some midbass to get that chest slam. I have already picked up 2 pa460 but very undecided on what to tune them too or integrate them with my hst-18. Should I go with the 31hz tuning or shoot for lower and just put a high pass filter. When we do move if we have room I do plan on adding another hst-18. I will do a modified version of the v.b.s.s as I want to go 12 inches deep by 28.5 high I am good with whatever width i need be. Any thoughts or input on this? I will probably be going with a birch ply build as well if that makes any difference.
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post #1138 of 1468 Old 10-04-2018, 05:49 PM
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The picture of the bracing on the first page almost looks like it is supposed to support the driver, and the piece between the ports looks long enough to attach to the front face of the box. Is that how it is supposed to work? Or is the upper bracing in the box deeper than the driver goes?

Last edited by Todd M; 10-05-2018 at 11:58 AM.
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post #1139 of 1468 Old 10-09-2018, 07:44 AM
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Quick question, when installing ports for the 31 Hz tune. Do you connect both flared ends together or is using one fine?

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Speakers: DIYSG Titans-615LX L/C/R, DIYSG Volt 10 Surrounds,
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Subwoofer: 4 VBSS
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post #1140 of 1468 Old 10-09-2018, 12:46 PM
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The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread

I am building a single VBSS slot ported and want to make sure my dimensions seem right:

6.25 sq ft volume (not including port)

External box measurements = 23.5” W x 33.75” H x 18.5” D

Port is 22” wide (full width) x 1” high x 38.11” total length, round overs all around

Tuned to 15 Hz using one PA460-8






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