The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 2550 Old 01-04-2016, 06:49 PM
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If you download the inuke software (free) you can import the .arp file that mtg posted in the first post into the software (does not require an amp) to see exactly how he did it.
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post #92 of 2550 Old 01-04-2016, 06:53 PM
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Folks, what's the consensus between the V.B.S.S. vs the MBM-12's from DIYSG?

I'll have F-15's as LCR's, 4 x full Marty sub tuned 16.5hz with HST18's up front - I sit 12' away. I currently have 2xJohnny's and 2xMarty Cubes with HT18's half a foot directly my seats. I was planning on getting 3 x MBM12's and using them as speaker stands for the Sentinels. I would love to use the VBSS cabs, but it'd be too wide up front.
The other option is to get 4xVBSS and move the existing nearfield subs on the back wall (10' away). What I'm looking for is a visceral feel at 80-200hz.
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post #93 of 2550 Old 01-04-2016, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
65hz and up you got it. Flex-12 it can go lower but will fill in that range your looking for and the eq is done like Pete is saying above.
Great! That's sealed... Now just need to learn req in the meantime.

It could be a moderately interesting build. I'm going to build a combo faux/functional mega-armoire. Will hide my right speaker on top, large bass traps behind it (walls on 3 sides etc so being safe for sbir), my av equipment (wall loaded but sub will not be for some sort of decoupling from vibrations) and the sub below. Then will hide my horn and I'll have snuck 125 db from 15-150hz into a bedroom out of sight... Lmao...
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post #94 of 2550 Old 01-04-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haavardnk View Post
How would two of these compare to my two SVS PC-12 NSD?
Also, how is the output compared to the SI HT18 or UM18 in a sealed box?

EDIT:
Also one more question. I have the possibility to get a Inuke NU3000 without dsp, and a dcx-2496, both for the same price as a nu1000dsp.
Wondering if it is possible to set up these dsp settings in the dcx easy?
Well, I have an SB13U, 2 of the Flex 12s compliment it. I currently have my SB13U crossed over at 125hz and my flexs at 250hz. They do very well. My mics not working right now so I can't get any measurements... Lots of output though

SVS Ultra Bookshelves (Gloss White) / SVS SB13-Ultra / 2x Flex 12's / 2x V.B.S.S's / 2x Dayton 460HO's Marantz SR7008
AKG K712 Pros / SB ZxR
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post #95 of 2550 Old 01-04-2016, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Folks, what's the consensus between the V.B.S.S. vs the MBM-12's from DIYSG?

I'll have F-15's as LCR's, 4 x full Marty sub tuned 16.5hz with HST18's up front - I sit 12' away. I currently have 2xJohnny's and 2xMarty Cubes with HT18's half a foot directly my seats. I was planning on getting 3 x MBM12's and using them as speaker stands for the Sentinels. I would love to use the VBSS cabs, but it'd be too wide up front.
The other option is to get 4xVBSS and move the existing nearfield subs on the back wall (10' away). What I'm looking for is a visceral feel at 80-200hz.

Wow first off 4 HST's up front nice man and some HT-18's Nearfield very nice! If this was my room leave your nearfields were they are behind your seats nothing beats Nearfield bass IMO. The feeling you get during gun fire and bass scenes is really nice. As for what to do the flex-12 or VBSS that's a hard one with your room I think I would go with the flex-12's under your fusion 15's you will be surprised how much midbass and low bass those subs will do. They played really loud in my room. I think they will fill the area your looking that needs to be addressed between your fusion 15's and HST's. Maybe someone else can give there thoughts to.
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post #96 of 2550 Old 01-04-2016, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Wow first off 4 HST's up front nice man and some HT-18's Nearfield very nice! If this was my room leave your nearfields were they are behind your seats nothing beats Nearfield bass IMO. The feeling you get during gun fire and bass scenes is really nice. As for what to do the flex-12 or VBSS that's a hard one with your room I think I would go with the flex-12's under your fusion 15's you will be surprised how much midbass and low bass those subs will do. They played really loud in my room. I think they will fill the area your looking that needs to be addressed between your fusion 15's and HST's. Maybe someone else can give there thoughts to.
Thanks for your feedback, Mike. I'll go ahead and start with a pair of the mbm-12's/28" through diysg and go from there. If it doesn't work out, I can always add fusion 8's and upgrade my current 2-ch set-up. Win-win
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post #97 of 2550 Old 01-05-2016, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
Great! That's sealed... Now just need to learn req in the meantime.

It could be a moderately interesting build. I'm going to build a combo faux/functional mega-armoire. Will hide my right speaker on top, large bass traps behind it (walls on 3 sides etc so being safe for sbir), my av equipment (wall loaded but sub will not be for some sort of decoupling from vibrations) and the sub below. Then will hide my horn and I'll have snuck 125 db from 15-150hz into a bedroom out of sight... Lmao...
Not to bump my own comment but 120+db from 15hz up and all hidden!!??! (including all speakers/subs)

I definitely will try to do a build thread but am sure you'll all hate my 'craftsmanship'
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post #98 of 2550 Old 01-31-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Found a better one...
You can really hear the room crying for its mommy in this vid. (2 Pac - Violent is almost ALL mid-bass, so it makes sense! )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBUZbiEawOY
i did hear wow so nice bass what u use subwoofer i seen you not use dayton 18 ho subwoofer
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post #99 of 2550 Old 02-23-2016, 07:40 PM
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Would I be better off going with 2 pa460's or 2 um15's? It's going into a 22 x 18 x 8ft room. I'm not scared to build wood boxes or learning all about speakers so I'm up for the challenge. Trying to wrap my head around all of this as I'm just now wanting to go the diy route.
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post #100 of 2550 Old 02-24-2016, 05:09 AM
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Would a 15 inch Rhythmic driver work ok in this box?
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post #101 of 2550 Old 03-12-2016, 02:30 PM
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Having a hard time finding 17" longe ports here in Denmark.
What dimentions would a slot port for it be, or can i use something else?
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post #102 of 2550 Old 03-12-2016, 05:25 PM
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@rocksnboarder a


IMHO, from reading all about the VBSS,
and the various threads posted
for the price of 2 UM 15's you 'could" get a good start on 4 VBSS subs,
which in you large room with the low tune option a major step toward impressive,
given some effort to placement, EQ, etc.

and it's a lot easier to build 4 boxes at the same time
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
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post #103 of 2550 Old 03-14-2016, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
@rocksnboarder a


IMHO, from reading all about the VBSS,
and the various threads posted
for the price of 2 UM 15's you 'could" get a good start on 4 VBSS subs,
which in you large room with the low tune option a major step toward impressive,
given some effort to placement, EQ, etc.

and it's a lot easier to build 4 boxes at the same time
Just got done building my first pa460 and the next one to come a month from now. I may do 4 but waiting to see what two seem like.
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post #104 of 2550 Old 03-14-2016, 10:07 AM
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^

build, baby, build!

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
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post #105 of 2550 Old 03-14-2016, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargazol View Post
Having a hard time finding 17" longe ports here in Denmark.
What dimentions would a slot port for it be, or can i use something else?
You could possibly do two 3.5" square ports built at the bottom corners of the box. Make them 16" long from the baffle face (should be 3.25" behind the ports to the rear wall). That would allow you to use both and get the 21hz tuning or plug one and get the 15hz tuning.

Otherwise you could do a full width slot port that is 1.5" high, also 17" long from the baffle face (should be 2.25" clearance behind the port to the rear wall).

A 1 - 1.5" 90 degree lip should be added to the internal exit of the slot port to reduce turbulence and chuffing. Round overs should also be used on the port internal exit. Similar to what I did on this design at the port exit (Note this is not a VBSS enclosure):

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post #106 of 2550 Old 03-14-2016, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
You could possibly do two 3.5" square ports built at the bottom corners of the box. Make them 16" long from the baffle face (should be 3.25" behind the ports to the rear wall). That would allow you to use both and get the 21hz tuning or plug one and get the 15hz tuning.

Otherwise you could do a full width slot port that is 1.5" high, also 17" long from the baffle face (should be 2.25" clearance behind the port to the rear wall).

A 1 - 1.5" 90 degree lip should be added to the internal exit of the slot port to reduce turbulence and chuffing. Round overs should also be used on the port internal exit. Similar to what I did on this design at the port exit (Note this is not a VBSS enclosure):
Thanks so much!. I think that is what i will do.
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post #107 of 2550 Old 03-15-2016, 02:57 AM
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What is the minimum baffle width for a VBSS cabinet? I finished up framing my baffle wall last weekend, but still haven't installed the plywood on the outside because I have not completed my center channel and as such I want to install the LCR's before I install the plywood. With that being said, I have some room on the outsides of the baffle wall closest to the corners where I could possibly frame in some subwoofer enclosures. I think that I might have 21.5" in between those studs on each side in the corner where the baffle wall meets the side walls.

I am not sure how the room and this placement will effect the performance due to room modes..might try and raise them up off the floor in that location. Any advice?
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post #108 of 2550 Old 03-15-2016, 10:03 PM
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Sorry, my question was semi answered by an above post that I had missed.

Last edited by BrianAbington; 03-17-2016 at 02:52 PM.
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post #109 of 2550 Old 03-16-2016, 05:44 PM
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@mtg90 - just wanted to say THANKS for your research and willingness to share what you have learned about the PA460 driver. LTD02 designed me a 6 sub array based on your hard work. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...02-design.html

My subs are 100% complete; unfortunately I cannot do much with them until the room is done

Subscribed; certainly a lot to learn in the meantime!
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post #110 of 2550 Old 03-17-2016, 04:50 AM
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I don't know if I'm ignorant or just don't find the correct threads. But what are the dimensions of the plastic ports on this build and do anyone have any examples of where to get them?

Last edited by barreth; 03-17-2016 at 05:07 AM. Reason: Clarified the question
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post #111 of 2550 Old 03-17-2016, 05:04 AM
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@barreth Two of these per cabinet.


http://www.parts-express.com/precisi...e-kit--268-352
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post #112 of 2550 Old 03-17-2016, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
You could possibly do two 3.5" square ports built at the bottom corners of the box. Make them 16" long from the baffle face (should be 3.25" behind the ports to the rear wall). That would allow you to use both and get the 21hz tuning or plug one and get the 15hz tuning.

Otherwise you could do a full width slot port that is 1.5" high, also 17" long from the baffle face (should be 2.25" clearance behind the port to the rear wall).

A 1 - 1.5" 90 degree lip should be added to the internal exit of the slot port to reduce turbulence and chuffing. Round overs should also be used on the port internal exit. Similar to what I did on this design at the port exit (Note this is not a VBSS enclosure):
Just as @rocksnboarder I have a hard time sourcing the pipes here in Sweden. I'm have no experience what so ever designing sub-woofer boxes. And English as a second language. So not totally sure I've understood your instructions fully. But I'll sketch up a box according to your instructions and see if I have understood you correctly.

But before I begin...

You mean that the two holes should be exiting the box here and extend 16" inwards towards the back wall? All internal and external edges of these holes rounded of with either a router or by hand?


If I'm going with the option of two front holes, should these two holes extend up along the back wall as in the other example you posted an image of?

If it is needed, does the height of that inner wall matter?

Is the difference of doing the one full width hole vs the two square ones just a question of looks and construction, or does the performance differ in any way?
I feel that having the ports at the front, rather than the side would suit me better. Since that will allow more flexible placing of the subs against walls (the driver is never facing the wall it self, but one or two of the sides might be)

Last edited by barreth; 03-17-2016 at 08:29 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #113 of 2550 Old 03-17-2016, 02:51 PM
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Is this how it could be built without the pipes?

Don't know if I calculated the volume correctly (never calculated volumes in feet & inches before)
But I get it to 200 litres internal volume, including the internal holes
And about 190 litres internal volume, excluding the internal holes

The internal dimentions of the box should be 30" x 22" x 18 1/2"
And the external deimentions of the inner holes 16" x 4 1/4" x 4 1/4"
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post #114 of 2550 Old 03-17-2016, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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That looks good but the length of the port should be 16" from the baffle face, so 15.25" length inside box.
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post #115 of 2550 Old 03-18-2016, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
That looks good but the length of the port should be 16" from the baffle face, so 15.25" length inside box.
How would Four of the lower tuned VBSS units do versus 2 MiniMarty's with the HO18's?
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post #116 of 2550 Old 03-18-2016, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
That looks good but the length of the port should be 16" from the baffle face, so 15.25" length inside box.
I don't know if I'm overworking this, but the "2 square ports design" volume differs from @mtg90 reported volume by quite a bit.
Either one of us has the calculation wrong, or I've misunderstood something. Please help me enlighten my confused metric mind .
@mtg90 reports a volume of 6.25 ft3 (177 liters) on the original design, with the same box.
When I calculate the original design inner dimension I get:
18.5" * 30" * 22" = 12,210 cubic inches (200 liters)
Subtract the pipe ports that have a total volume of 7 liters (3.5 liters or 213 cubic inches each), and the driver, which takes up 0.7 liters and you get 192.3 liters.

For the suggested design with the square ports this is the data
Dimensions
Box Outer: 20.5" x 23.5" x 31.5"
Box Inner: 18.5" x 22" x 30"

Port, Outer: 4.25" x 4.24" x 14.75"
Port, Inner: 3.5" x 3.5" x 16"

Volumes
ps460-8 Vd: 0.7 liters (746.5 cm2)
Inner box: 200 liters
Inner ports: 2x 3.2 liters
outer ports: 2x 4.4 liters

Total inner volume excluding the ports and driver
190.5 liters

The values I calculate are very close, and I guess the 1% difference wont be a problem performance wise.

P.S Sorry if I complicate this, I'm just a noob aspiring to do build a few sub woofers . I'll put up the corrected schematic of @mtg90 suggested square port design with the corrected port depth as soon as I'm sure it's correct.
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post #117 of 2550 Old 03-18-2016, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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You are correct that the internal volume is larger then I stated, I don't know where I messed up but it is larger then the value I spec'd. However the difference is small and has little effect on real world performance.
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post #118 of 2550 Old 03-18-2016, 02:01 PM
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Thank you very much @mtg90 for you help.

If anyone is interested, here's the dimensions mtg90 described in the earlier post. If you live out of the states and cannot find suitable pipes for the holes.

Everything is exactly the same as the original, but two manually built 3.5" square ports have replaced the 4" pipes in his original design.





Remember, as he described earlier, that the INNER length of the port should be 16". In the design I modelled, I have calculated with the additional 1/2" thick front baffle to flush mount the driver. If you don't choose to add that, the two pieces that construct the ports should instead be 15 1/4" long.

All credit goes to @mtg90
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post #119 of 2550 Old 03-19-2016, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
You are correct that the internal volume is larger then I stated, I don't know where I messed up but it is larger then the value I spec'd. However the difference is small and has little effect on real world performance.
How would four of the V.B.S.S. do compared to two of the MiniMarty's with a Dayton HO18 in each one? Just wondering.
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post #120 of 2550 Old 03-24-2016, 08:54 PM
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Can someone explain what the 15hz dsp settings are doing?


I have two pa-460's that I dropped into some mini marty boxes that I had, and they sound pretty good just flat eq'ed. I set up the vbss and minimarty boxes in winisd, and they both seemed to model fairly close (unless I did something wrong?), so I loaded the 15hz dsp settings and listened to some music, and it definitely sounded a bit thumpier, but I didn't have the volume very loud. Anyways, I set the volume to where I always do for running REW sweeps, and the low end is super loud.. like 15db louder at 20hz tapering some towards 55hz over what it has with just a flat eq, which happens to be fairly close to what my ht18's measured at

I looked at the settings, and it looks like its got a +15db shelf at 20hz, then there's a +14db deq as well as a -10.5db deq? what's the reasoning behind that? after turning on a tv show, it seemed like the low bass was overly loud with the eq enabled

Receiver: Emotiva Fusion 8100
Fronts: Klipsch klf-10 / Center: Klipsch klf-c7 / Surrounds: Klipsch klf-10
Subs: Two 18" Dayton PA460's + Paradigm PS-1200
Sub amp: Behringer Inuke3000dsp
Television: Sharp Aquos LC70SQ15U
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