The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
I only see lengths mentioned for the slot port. Care to enlighten me on the tube port lengths?

I clearly see the slot port in the dimensions...



Im pretty sure its just Two 4" precision ports at full length.
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post #1232 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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For the 20Hz tune the 4" precision ports are full length which is 17" long. The large large flares on those terminating close to the rear wall help extend the usable length of the port. If something like 4" PVC was used I'm not sure how that would affect tuning. Ideally you would want to add something like a ring and round overs to the internal termination of the port tube to get a similar effect.

31Hz is 5" which is just the two flares put together though with straight 4" round ports you may want to shorten the length to 4".
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post #1233 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy.Alexander View Post
Im pretty sure its just Two 4" precision ports at full length.
That was my quesiton without any knowledge of precision ports.

So, two 17" long ports??

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post #1234 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
For the 20Hz tune the 4" precision ports are full length which is 17" long. The large large flares on those terminating close to the rear wall help extend the usable length of the port. If something like 4" PVC was used I'm not sure how that would affect tuning. Ideally you would want to add something like a ring and round overs to the internal termination of the port tube to get a similar effect.

31Hz is 5" which is just the two flares put together though with straight 4" round ports you may want to shorten the length to 4".
Sorry, posted while you were typing. Thanks for the info!

Yes, flaring is beneficial. 17" is "close enough", give or take for the low tune.

"31Hz is 5" which is just the two flares put together though with straight 4" round ports"

That is the answer I was after, for the "music" tune.

The OP should update the first post with that data clearly stated for those looking at this design.
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post #1235 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 12:33 PM
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@jpmst3 you know mtg90 is the OP right? I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, lol.
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post #1236 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Samps View Post
@jpmst3 you know mtg90 is the OP right? I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, lol.
Ha! I missed that....too many threads and posts!

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post #1237 of 1499 Old 11-30-2018, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy.Alexander View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie11254 View Post
Hey guys, I’m building four of the boxes out of 1” MDF after I pick up the material today. I have 4 of the pa460-8’s on the way currently, along with the 3000dsp. With changing the material thickness of the MDF, I know the cut length will change to get the correct internal box volume, and I’m using a slot port at 20hertz. I don’t have a laptop to get he box building software to come out at 6.25 cft, and don’t know how the 1” will throw the dimensions off. So could some of you guys help me with my dimensions? I can figure the cut list and all myself. I’ll be making a thread on this build and keeping everyone posted once I start it in a couple days! Any help is appreciated, I just want to do this right and not guess on box and port volume, so that I can piggyback off of @mtg90 DSP settings, as I’m admittedly a total noob. Much appreciation!!



http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
Thanks! I got ahold of mtg90 and he helped me out.
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post #1238 of 1499 Old 12-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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Okay, after finally reading about these, they now have my attention. So, out of curiousity, how would a pair of the VBSS's w/PA460's compare to a pair of Johnny Subs w/460HO's?

I haven't really figured out WinISD yet, so if someone could post some comparison graphs, that would be greatly appreciated.

@mtg90 ? @LTD02 ? (*wink, wink. nudge, nudge*)

Also, here is some room info to get an idea of possible perfomance. I'm in a living room setting (2294 cu. ft). It has a hallway opening in the left rear (back wall), and a 5'W x 7'H opening that leads to the kitchen (1804 cu.ft.) towards the front end of the left wall. The house is on piers so it has suspended wood floors. As far as placement, they will be placed to either side of my entertainment stand.


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post #1239 of 1499 Old 12-01-2018, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Okay, after finally reading about these, they now have my attention. So, out of curiousity, how would a pair of the VBSS's w/PA460's compare to a pair of Johnny Subs w/460HO's?

I haven't really figured out WinISD yet, so if someone could post some comparison graphs, that would be greatly appreciated.

@mtg90 ? @LTD02 ? (*wink, wink. nudge, nudge*)

Also, here is some room info to get an idea of possible perfomance. I'm in a living room setting (2294 cu. ft). It has a hallway opening in the left rear (back wall), and a 5'W x 7'H opening that leads to the kitchen (1804 cu.ft.) towards the front end of the left wall. The house is on piers so it has suspended wood floors. As far as placement, they will be placed to either side of my entertainment stand.


Thanks,

Darrell
460HO will have about 6db more output below about 40hz.

PA460 will have more impactful midbass.

the frequency response of both at 1 watt (VBSS tuned to about 20hz).



max spl would be something like this:



doesn't really tell the story though.

if all you can get is two subs and you want loud lowend lfe for movies, get the 460ho's.

if you listen to loud music and want the best upper end, get the pa460's.

if you want it all, get both.

alternatively, six pa460's would also do it.
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post #1240 of 1499 Old 12-02-2018, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
460HO will have about 6db more output below about 40hz.

PA460 will have more impactful midbass.

the frequency response of both at 1 watt (VBSS tuned to about 20hz).



max spl would be something like this:



doesn't really tell the story though.

if all you can get is two subs and you want loud lowend lfe for movies, get the 460ho's.

if you listen to loud music and want the best upper end, get the pa460's.

if you want it all, get both.

alternatively, six pa460's would also do it.
WOW! I didn't realize there would be that big of a difference on the upper end for the PA.

I think I'm stilll gonna have to go with the Johnny's since my main use will be for movies, but I'm definitely going to be building some of these bad boys for the man cave that I have planned.


Thanks for doing this for me @LTD02 !

Darrell
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post #1241 of 1499 Old 12-03-2018, 03:59 PM
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I know this has been discussed a few times but I’m looking to build 4 of these total, 2 corner loaded in the 15hz tune, 2 very nearfield behind the couch for the chest slam feeling. For the nearfield, how shallow can I get away with? I’d like to make it 12” deep to fit behind the couch and under the bar. Width and height isn’t an issue. Also for tuning, I know higher tuning is desired for chest slam so the 30hz tune makes sense. Is there a way to build a slot port version that allows me to choose a 30, 20, or 15hz tune after the fact? (With the tube version you remove a center tube to shorten the ports, but can’t do that with a slot version). Thanks!
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post #1242 of 1499 Old 12-06-2018, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinthenewb View Post
I know this has been discussed a few times but I’m looking to build 4 of these total, 2 corner loaded in the 15hz tune, 2 very nearfield behind the couch for the chest slam feeling. For the nearfield, how shallow can I get away with? I’d like to make it 12” deep to fit behind the couch and under the bar. Width and height isn’t an issue. Also for tuning, I know higher tuning is desired for chest slam so the 30hz tune makes sense. Is there a way to build a slot port version that allows me to choose a 30, 20, or 15hz tune after the fact? (With the tube version you remove a center tube to shorten the ports, but can’t do that with a slot version). Thanks!

Slot version...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56120796


You can always plug a port in the slot version for a lower tune...12" deep for this sub will be an issue...I am doing the same thing you are and have 2 of the slot port versions built already (the same ones in the link above) ...the two behind the sofa are going to be 16" deep and its a whole new box design...any narrower and you have to start going longer and taller which makes the boxes longer/taller than the sofas are...

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post #1243 of 1499 Old 12-06-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tiggere View Post
Slot version...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56120796


You can always plug a port in the slot version for a lower tune...12" deep for this sub will be an issue...I am doing the same thing you are and have 2 of the slot port versions built already (the same ones in the link above) ...the two behind the sofa are going to be 16" deep and its a whole new box design...any narrower and you have to start going longer and taller which makes the boxes longer/taller than the sofas are...
Thanks @tiggere ! i read through this whole thread and have seen the slot version mentioned a fair bit, but never with 3 tuning options. The link didnt take me anywhere i guess i can just add another slot for 30hz tuning and then plug it if i want to go for 20 or 15? Is 12" deep only an issue for box sizing or do you start running into issues with baffle diffraction and other acoustic issues? box length and height isnt an issue for me since my couch is 10 feet long, the box can be up to 5 feet wide and 39 inches tall. I calculate for a box 12 inches deep and 36 inches tall id need a 25-30 inch wide box which is very doable for me.
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post #1244 of 1499 Old 12-06-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinthenewb View Post
Thanks @tiggere ! i read through this whole thread and have seen the slot version mentioned a fair bit, but never with 3 tuning options. The link didnt take me anywhere i guess i can just add another slot for 30hz tuning and then plug it if i want to go for 20 or 15? Is 12" deep only an issue for box sizing or do you start running into issues with baffle diffraction and other acoustic issues? box length and height isnt an issue for me since my couch is 10 feet long, the box can be up to 5 feet wide and 39 inches tall. I calculate for a box 12 inches deep and 36 inches tall id need a 25-30 inch wide box which is very doable for me.

Hmmm...should have taken you to page 27...thats where the slot V.B.S.S is listed...



Someone with the software would have to model the 3 tune option...I have only seen the two options posted and have never seen a 3 tuning option one...for movies I went with the 20hz tune...I don't listen to much music and I have another sub for the ULF...none of which are calibrated as I am working nights and have not ordered my mic yet...still sounds amazing though!!



you will be fine if your sofa is that big...I have a standard size sofa and had to work around height/length considerations to come up with the depth so the box doesn't come over the back or stick out past the sides...this forced the depth dimension to 16"...

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post #1245 of 1499 Old 12-06-2018, 04:36 PM
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Question: How long are the ports for the 31 Hz tune?

I see the mention of removing the center extension tubes, but if one is not using precision ports, what does that new length equate to?

Are we talking only flare to flare?

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post #1246 of 1499 Old 12-10-2018, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggere View Post
Hmmm...should have taken you to page 27...thats where the slot V.B.S.S is listed...



Someone with the software would have to model the 3 tune option...I have only seen the two options posted and have never seen a 3 tuning option one...for movies I went with the 20hz tune...I don't listen to much music and I have another sub for the ULF...none of which are calibrated as I am working nights and have not ordered my mic yet...still sounds amazing though!!



you will be fine if your sofa is that big...I have a standard size sofa and had to work around height/length considerations to come up with the depth so the box doesn't come over the back or stick out past the sides...this forced the depth dimension to 16"...
for some reason the link worked fine on my phone but not on the computer, weird. ok good to know! i will plan on 2 nearfield 12" deep VBSS
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post #1247 of 1499 Old 12-10-2018, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
Question: How long are the ports for the 31 Hz tune?

I see the mention of removing the center extension tubes, but if one is not using precision ports, what does that new length equate to?

Are we talking only flare to flare?
Yes the two flares end to end, which is 5" total length. I suspect if using 4" port tubes without the large precision port flares that you will want them around 3.5 - 4" long.
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post #1248 of 1499 Old 12-10-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Yes the two flares end to end, which is 5" total length. I suspect if using 4" port tubes without the large precision port flares that you will want them around 3.5 - 4" long.
Thanks for the clarification!

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post #1249 of 1499 Old 12-12-2018, 12:28 PM
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@mtg90 Thanks for updating the original post. I just re-read it and saw there were a lot of changes made that answer some of the questions I had along the way. That will be helpful to someone just starting out!
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post #1250 of 1499 Old 12-23-2018, 01:23 PM
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Has anyone weighed one of these? With front baffle or without? I have two of them and am curious of the weight but I also don't feel like removing them from their install places just to weigh. I'm guessing 60 lbs with baffle.
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post #1251 of 1499 Old 12-24-2018, 07:09 AM
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Has anyone weighed one of these? With front baffle or without? I have two of them and am curious of the weight but I also don't feel like removing them from their install places just to weigh. I'm guessing 60 lbs with baffle.
1 sheet of regular 3/4 MDF (not the lightweight stuff that is harder to find) weighs 96 lbs.



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post #1252 of 1499 Old 01-01-2019, 01:17 PM
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Has anyone made one of these with the Dayton Audio SPA500DSP amp? I am, and I was wondering if someone could give me some advice tuning the DSP. Thanks!
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post #1253 of 1499 Old 01-01-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Has anyone made one of these with the Dayton Audio SPA500DSP amp? I am, and I was wondering if someone could give me some advice tuning the DSP. Thanks!
You just have to apply the settings manually, same as any other DSP...

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post #1254 of 1499 Old 01-02-2019, 02:57 AM
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Have the BEST Year 2019 you ALL are looking for!
Done the greetings, here come the question.
As per post 789 May 1st from @LTD02 :
"31Hz Version

For the 31Hz mode version, everything is the same except the bottom port board is 10.50" long. There is no vertical port board in the 31hz version. Stuffing one port in the 31Hz version tunes the cab to about 22Hz."
Is the horizontal port brace to be reduced accordingly to 10.5”, OR I better let it full internal length, for more structural support? I want to be sure!
I have received the PA 460 8 18 from the European distributor, don't want to let it sit there!
Hoping to compliment my system for music listening (have a Behringer 3000dsp and 4x12" Jbl in 2x2 sealed cabs running semi nearfield placed vertically under my surround speakers).
Best regards
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post #1255 of 1499 Old 01-02-2019, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Has anyone made one of these with the Dayton Audio SPA500DSP amp? I am, and I was wondering if someone could give me some advice tuning the DSP. Thanks!
If you check out the attachments on the original post, you'll find a txt file containing all the filter/dsp settings. You will enter those manually in your DSP settings.
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post #1256 of 1499 Old 01-02-2019, 06:24 AM
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It has the options but the limiter works a bit different. You might need a little help figuring out the limiter.

I really like the amp and the GUI is easy to use ( I have the 250) but it would definitely be a great deal easier if you had a Behringer.

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post #1257 of 1499 Old 01-02-2019, 11:00 AM
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I am all about the spirit of DIY, but I am also pragmatic.

For those of you that want the ~ 31 Hz "music" tune, and don't have the time, skills or money to build, you might want to consider one of these:

Rockville PBG18

At $165 delivered, they are a steal with a slightly smaller footprint, similar tuning (F3 of 29 Hz), high sensitivity and power handling, etc.

I have two of these in my fair weather outdoor system. I am driving them with a bridged Crown XLS 1502 and they rock the entire block!

It costs about the same to build, and you get carry handles, carpet finish, speakon connector, corner protectors, etc. They may not look as good as a DIY finish, but it is tough to beat them for the money. They even have lesser versions of under $130 delivered.

Just throwing that out there as something to consider depending on the constraints one has.

______________________________________________
Joe = LFE Addict
Past Builds: 24" LMS-5400 cube, Anarchy 25Hz Tapped Horn, Danley DTS-10 kit, BFM AutoTuba, BFM THT, BFM THT-LP
Joe's LOWARHORN build, Dual LMS-5400 Ultra Endtables build

Last edited by jpmst3; 01-02-2019 at 11:48 AM.
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post #1258 of 1499 Old 01-02-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
It has the options but the limiter works a bit different. You might need a little help figuring out the limiter.

I really like the amp and the GUI is easy to use ( I have the 250) but it would definitely be a great deal easier if you had a Behringer.

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Thank you so much for this. What tune is yours set to? I also have a mac... so I assume ill be doing this manually!
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post #1259 of 1499 Old 01-04-2019, 04:31 AM
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I'd like to see the performance difference between VBSS and REXUS.

I have four PA460 being delivered and one Behringer NX3000d ready for duty.

What software do I need to model and compare the VBSS to the REXUS?

System: Pioneer LX901, Nvidia Shield, Xbox One X
Speakers: 3 x B215XL, 8xB212XL, 1xAlto TS218 nearfield, 4 x VBSS 20hz
MiniDSP2x4 revB, UMIK-1, Sony HW40ES, Dreamscreen V5 Ultraframe D65 100"
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post #1260 of 1499 Old 01-04-2019, 06:38 AM
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I hope I'm not being lazy but I couldn't find this info... (2 questions)

1. Assuming you keeping the net internal size the same. How do you calculate the port size/length for a custom shape box with a slot port with a 15hz tune?

Since the vbss has custom EQ settings I figured it would be hard to model in winisd since the pa460 isn't exactly designed to go that low...

2. I took out and lost/tossed the fans in my current amp because it was just driving a horn and never even got warm. Without fans resale would likely be difficult so I hoped to keep it and use a minidsp. I believe the minidsp 2x4hd has a limiter function...

Does anyone know how you'd input the inuke dsp settings into a minidsp?

Last edited by goonstopher; 01-04-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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