The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 53 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1561 of 2564 Old 09-13-2019, 07:38 AM
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I'm looking at building a modified VBSS enclosure with an enclosure width of 21.5", making the internal width 20". Is there any concern mounting an 18" driver with a 16.75" cutout in an enclosure that narrow?

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post #1562 of 2564 Old 09-13-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
I'm looking at building a modified VBSS enclosure with an enclosure width of 21.5", making the internal width 20". Is there any concern mounting an 18" driver with a 16.75" cutout in an enclosure that narrow?
I did the same thing. @LTD02 was kind enough to modify the original VBSS to meet my requirements. This is a 31Hz slotted port version:

https://m.imgur.com/a/n6jxgkF


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post #1563 of 2564 Old 09-13-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tjambro View Post
I did the same thing. @LTD02 was kind enough to modify the original VBSS to meet my requirements. This is a 31Hz slotted port version:

https://m.imgur.com/a/n6jxgkF

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Excellent, good to hear.. I wish those dimensions would work for me but my baffle max size is 21.5" x 29".

Will post box specs here once I figure out how to do slot ports in WINISD.
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post #1564 of 2564 Old 09-13-2019, 08:55 AM
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OK I have everything loaded into WINISD, if there's an expert out there who doesn't mind checking my settings and results I'd appreciate it.

I'm using MTG's Dayton specs.

Box external dimensions: 28" wide x 21.5" tall x 23.75" deep (single baffle)
internal dimensions: 26.5" x 20" x 22.25"
internal volume: 6.82 cubic feet
slot port: 2" x 20" x 27.3" @ 22 Hz.

This gives a first port resonance at 247.83 Hz, I assume that's no problem.

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post #1565 of 2564 Old 09-13-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
OK I have everything loaded into WINISD, if there's an expert out there who doesn't mind checking my settings and results I'd appreciate it.

I'm using MTG's Dayton specs.

Box external dimensions: 28" wide x 21.5" tall x 23.75" deep (single baffle)
internal dimensions: 26.5" x 20" x 22.25"
internal volume: 6.82 cubic feet
slot port: 2" x 20" x 27.3" @ 22 Hz.

This gives a first port resonance at 247.83 Hz, I assume that's no problem.
the volume of the port, bracing, and driver have to be subtracted in order to get the net volume for winisd.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #1566 of 2564 Old 09-15-2019, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
the volume of the port, bracing, and driver have to be subtracted in order to get the net volume for winisd.
Thank you. I'll do some number crunching when I get my Windows computer back up and running.
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post #1567 of 2564 Old 09-15-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Adi Cha View Post
I recently acquired 2 VBSS subwoofers along with a nu1000dsp (used, all for $75).
FMD good score! Here I was thinking getting two subs shipped to Aus for under $400 was good value lol...
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post #1568 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 02:05 PM
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So I finished my VBSS subs a while back but I haven't had a chance to really give them a workout. I've been able to circle back and start seeing what they can do but so far, not so good. I'm running them on a NX3000d connected to an AVR-X2400H receiver and the only way I seem to be able to get any noticable bass from these is to set +12 on the subwoofer output level, set the gain all the way up in the NX Edit application and crank the front dials all the way up. At that point they do put out some bass but it's still doesn't knock my socks off. I replaced 2 old Boston PV600 10" subs with these and they hit harder than these giant 18" subs.

The NX3000D displays barely flutter and like I said, if I crank everything to 11 I do get some noise from them so it's almost like my reciever isn't putting out enough signal for the amp. Am I running into a line level mismatch? Is the NX3000D expecting 4v and my denon puts out 2.5v or something?


Any help would be appreciated.

Last edited by pooptoast; 09-21-2019 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Grammer, clarity and spelling
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post #1569 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pooptoast View Post
So I finished my VBSS subs a while back but I haven't had a chance to really give them a workout. I've been able to circle back and start seeing what they can do but so far, not so good. I'm running them on a NX3000d connected to an AVR-X2400H receiver and the only way I seem to be able to get any noticable bass from these is to set +12 on the subwoofer output level, set the gain all the way up in the NX Edit application and crank the front dials all the way up. At that point they do put out some bass but it's still doesn't knock my socks off. I replaced 2 old Boston PV600 10" subs with these and they hit harder than these giant 18" subs.

The NX3000D displays barely flutter and like I said, if I crank everything to 11 I do get some noise from them so it's almost like my reciever isn't putting out enough signal for the amp. Am I running into a line level mismatch? Is the NX3000D expecting 4v and my denon puts out 2.5v or something?


Any help would be appreciated.
What setting in the NX3000 have you set?
Maybe take a pic and post that .
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post #1570 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 04:08 PM
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What setting in the NX3000 have you set?
Maybe take a pic and post that .
Here's my NX3000D settings. I've tried all three but this is the 20hz tune. These are straight from the OP, just with the extension changed for the newer version.
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post #1571 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 04:35 PM
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Have you wired the subs for 8Ohm or 4?
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post #1572 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Have you wired the subs for 8Ohm or 4?
One per channel so 8 ohms.


I've also checked the phase thinking maybe I wired one out of phase but I tried swapping on either channel and just running a single sub but none of it helped.

Last edited by pooptoast; 09-21-2019 at 05:24 PM. Reason: more info
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post #1573 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 05:33 PM
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And your wiring is +1 and -1?
What setting in the avr for LFE
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post #1574 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 05:44 PM
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And your wiring is +1 and -1?
What setting in the avr for LFE
Yes, +1 and -1, they are working but the sound is so faint that at first I thought it was just the speaker cones resonating with the bass from my main speakers. I have the sub output set to LFE+Main but I've tried both ways. I setup everything with Audyssey and played with settings but just today I reset the receiver back to factory settings just to be safe. I'll run through Audyssey again to see what it comes up with.

If I max everything out and play the bassiest song I have I do get some decent output out of it but at that point there's so much 60hz hum that it's unusable.

I have a multimeter I can use to measure things but while I do have a fair bit of electronics experience, I'm not sure what levels I should be checking and what they should be.

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post #1575 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 05:51 PM
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You could take the limiter off on the NX, since the PA's can take up to 1000watts and the NX will only output according to specs. 440 watts @8Ohm.
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post #1576 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 05:55 PM
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Thanks, I’ll try that.

Is it worth trying to parallel these suckers and bridge the amp? I realize I’m way overpowering them at that point but if I’m careful it might be worth a test.
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post #1577 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 06:01 PM
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Thanks, I’ll try that.

Is it worth trying to parallel these suckers and bridge the amp? I realize I’m way overpowering them at that point but if I’m careful it might be worth a test.
If you aren't getting enough bass, my thoughts are that either the drivers are bad(highly unlikely) or the amp is bad. I wouldn't bridge your connections. Even at 440watts you should have a roomful of bass. So somewhere in your chain is causing the problem. Just re-read the one post and you say a 60hz hum? Try plugging your amp into a different wall socket.
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post #1578 of 2564 Old 09-21-2019, 07:10 PM
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I have it on the same tricklestar power strip as my receiver but it acts the same on other power strips or outlets.

I think I’ll try hooking it up to another source and maybe some other speakers to see what I get out of it.

EDIT - Well, I think my amp is toast. I hooked up one of the subs through my old Pioneer SX3800 (60wpc), it shook the walls. I'm hoping it's my interconnects but I'm not counting on it.

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll keep plugging away and update when I figure it out.

Last edited by pooptoast; 09-25-2019 at 10:46 AM. Reason: UPDATE
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post #1579 of 2564 Old 09-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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Well, the amp is amplifying something, just not well. I loaded the default setting, hooked it up to my phone headphone output and I ran a signal generator app. With everything maxed out (headphone volume all the way up, both channels turned all the way up) I do get some noise. I tried a bunch of frequencies from 20-100 and they are all there. It does move some air but I’m guessing only about 1mm of cone travel. Enough to hear some bass but my ancient 60wpc receiver does much better even at mid volume.

I ordered a new set of interconnects. I’m currently using rca to 1/4 but I went for an rca to xlr this time. I’m also ordering new speakeon connectors just to be safe.

I did find a usb update menu on the behringer (hold setup when powering it on). Is there firmware available for these things?
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post #1580 of 2564 Old 09-24-2019, 06:07 AM
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I don't think they release firmware very often. I've never had one available for my iNuke.

I think you're smart to replace your interconnects.

Also I know you said you had your sub output set to LFE+MAIN which is fine, but what is your subwoofer level setting? I think on your receiver it should be Menu > Speakers > Manual Setup > Levels > Test Tone Start. If it's set below 0, I'd try boosting it up.

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post #1581 of 2564 Old 09-25-2019, 10:43 AM
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I don't think they release firmware very often. I've never had one available for my iNuke.

I think you're smart to replace your interconnects.

Also I know you said you had your sub output set to LFE+MAIN which is fine, but what is your subwoofer level setting? I think on your receiver it should be Menu > Speakers > Manual Setup > Levels > Test Tone Start. If it's set below 0, I'd try boosting it up.
I did try boosting it. The only way I was able to get an appreciable amount of output was to set the sub level to +12 and crank the knobs on the NX3000D all the way up. At that point I do get some output but the quality is poor, not much low bass output at all and I get so much 60hz hum that it's useless. With the sub level at 0 and the volume knob about halfway my old Pioneer 60wpc reciever gives much more output and some actual low bass output. I have the new interconnect, I'm going to try it tonight but after testing with other sources and testing the speakers on other amps I'm near certain the NX3000D is just a dud. Unfortunately they are out of stock everywhere reputable so I have to wait a couple weeks before I can replace it.
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post #1582 of 2564 Old 09-25-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by pooptoast View Post
I did try boosting it. The only way I was able to get an appreciable amount of output was to set the sub level to +12 and crank the knobs on the NX3000D all the way up. At that point I do get some output but the quality is poor, not much low bass output at all and I get so much 60hz hum that it's useless. With the sub level at 0 and the volume knob about halfway my old Pioneer 60wpc reciever gives much more output and some actual low bass output. I have the new interconnect, I'm going to try it tonight but after testing with other sources and testing the speakers on other amps I'm near certain the NX3000D is just a dud. Unfortunately they are out of stock everywhere reputable so I have to wait a couple weeks before I can replace it.
Unfortunately, it starts to sound that way to me as well.

Sounds like you tried other sources, that would have been my other recommendation. Reset all the settings on the NX, hook up an audio player directly to the inputs on the amp, hook up some full range speakers and slowly bring the volume up to see what you get.

The only other possibility I see is the speaker wires. I'm guessing when you hooked the PAs up to the Pioneer receiver you used a different speaker wire because of the connectors. Perhaps post a picture of your wire connections into the SpeakON connector just so we can check that off the list.

Also, if there's any doubt in your mind, order these: https://www.amazon.com/GLS-Audio-Spe...gateway&sr=8-9

Might be worth the money to rule it out.

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Last edited by jevchance; 09-25-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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post #1583 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 02:10 AM
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Is the NX3000D expecting 4v and my denon puts out 2.5v or something?
It could be low output voltage on the receiver's sub out RCA? My Yamaha puts out I think 0.7v and the nx-X000 amps expect to receive 1.4v (I think I've read this in other threads). Here's one link below, there are probably others, maybe there's one for your specific receiver.?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2242594-art-cleanbox-pro-simply-works.html
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post #1584 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 07:49 AM
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^^I agree it seems to act like there is an input sensativity issue, considering the signal limit indicators barely budge but if there was such a big mismatch then I would expect others would have run into this issue before. Lots of people run their NXx000D amps off their home audio recievers and don't have an issue.



I am going to recable everything tonight, new interconnects, new speaker cables with new speakeon connectors (2 pole instead of the 4 pole I have now so I can't screw it up). I don't expect any difference but my fingers are crossed.


Can anyone suggest an input source with a higher voltage that I could use to test?
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post #1585 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 08:39 AM
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I would think your phone hooked up to it using a Y-adapter should have been enough. I will see if I can recreate this myself at home tonight with my iNuke 3000DSP to see what kind of gain I get from a cell phone.

Unfortunately I think you need an oscilloscope to effectively test pre-out voltage.

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post #1586 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 03:55 PM
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^^I would have thought so too, thanks for the advice though. And thank you so much if you can test with yours, it would be a huge help.


For an update, I replaced all the cables, interconnect, power and speaker, same result. Gotta be the amp. I'm going to order a second one once they are in stock again. Maybe I'll look for an electronics repair place to see if anything can be done with my current junker.
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post #1587 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pooptoast View Post
^^I would have thought so too, thanks for the advice though. And thank you so much if you can test with yours, it would be a huge help.


For an update, I replaced all the cables, interconnect, power and speaker, same result. Gotta be the amp. I'm going to order a second one once they are in stock again. Maybe I'll look for an electronics repair place to see if anything can be done with my current junker.
Before spending more money, recheck your RCA connections to the AVR. Make doubly sure you are plugged into the proper subwoofer jack (mistakes happen all the time), and push on all connections to be sure they are properly seated.

Also, since you are in Bi-amp mode, only the Channel A gain knob should be in play.

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post #1588 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 04:56 PM
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if there was such a big mismatch then I would expect others would have run into this issue before. Lots of people run their NXx000D amps off their home audio recievers and don't have an issue.
plenty of people using cleanbox, I linked one thread above... Here's more info explaining consumer vs pro gear output https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level


hope you can find the weak link soon and get thumping
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post #1589 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 05:53 PM
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plenty of people using cleanbox, I linked one thread above... Here's more info explaining consumer vs pro gear output https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level


hope you can find the weak link soon and get thumping
His Denon should have plenty of output to feed that amp. A cleanbox shouldn't be needed.

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post #1590 of 2564 Old 09-26-2019, 05:56 PM
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Ahh, sorry, reading on a phone and missed your post linking to the clean box. That looks like it’s worth a try, easier to swallow than a new amp. I’m ordering one and will give it a try. Thank you!

Edit ^^ - Hmm, now I don’t know what to do. Is it worth a shot or not? I’d hate to waste 100 bucks on the box plus cables but then again I’d hate to be out 350 for a new amp... In any case, just a big thanks to everyone, I'm sorry to derail the thread with my problems for so long.

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