The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 66 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1951 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 10:15 AM
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2 more 18's incoming!

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post #1952 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
@harrisu you should really move this to a new thread with a descriptive title. By posting this in VBSS you have limited your audience to only those that follow this thread.
I replied to the questions that were asked. I don't want to make/post anything on this thread that isn't related to VBSS. Please see my initial post and its all about asking opinion about VBSS. Still waiting if someone can chime in and answer them.
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post #1953 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
2 more 18's incoming!

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Are these VBSS Low Tuned?
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post #1954 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Are these VBSS Low Tuned?
They're the slim design cabs tuned to 20hz
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--------------------------------------------------
Epson 5040, 150" 16:9 1.1gain, Source: HTPC w/madVR, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 4 diy Slim VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #1955 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
They're the slim design cabs tuned to 20hz
Very nice. Which driver are you planning to use? Any build thread or cut sheet for this one? I'd like to build 2 as well. Less depth will work very well for me as well. I see you have Mini Marty as well. Are you going to replace it or integrate with it? Would be great to hear their comparison assuming you'd end up using same driver and location.
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post #1956 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Very nice. Which driver are you planning to use? Any build thread or cut sheet for this one? I'd like to build 2 as well. Less depth will work very well for me as well. I see you have Mini Marty as well. Are you going to replace it or integrate with it? Would be great to hear their comparison assuming you'd end up using same driver and location.
Yes, I love having less floor space taken up by using a slimmer cab!

Check post 1674 of this thread for the info on the slim build - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58849884


I have already built 2 of the slim 18's and I am now building 2 more. They all will have the pa460 driver.

I still have the mini marty and have been using it with the 2 vbss I have already built. They complement each other very well. The marty with the um18 driver does most of the low-end work and the vbss subs really give me what the marty struggles with - mid-bass.

I'll end up have the one mini marty with the um18 driver and then 4 vbss with the pa460 drivers. Hopefully, I'll have enough and then I can finally stop building

--------------------------------------------------
Epson 5040, 150" 16:9 1.1gain, Source: HTPC w/madVR, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 4 diy Slim VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #1957 of 2571 Old 03-16-2020, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Yes, I love having less floor space taken up by using a slimmer cab!

Check post 1674 of this thread for the info on the slim build - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58849884


I have already built 2 of the slim 18's and I am now building 2 more. They all will have the pa460 driver.

I still have the mini marty and have been using it with the 2 vbss I have already built. They complement each other very well. The marty with the um18 driver does most of the low-end work and the vbss subs really give me what the marty struggles with - mid-bass.

I'll end up have the one mini marty with the um18 driver and then 4 vbss with the pa460 drivers. Hopefully, I'll have enough and then I can finally stop building
Thank you sir. Much appreciated. Yeah this PA460 driver is just an amazing gem specially for the price we pay. @LTD02 designed a NF box for me with 15 degree tilt on the front to place it NF to be used with PA460. Even though I don't use it anymore, I do clearly remember how impressed I was with its sound. It brings Music alive. Really good driver. I had exactly the same situation as yours. I had 2 Mini Marty but was missing a bit of Mid-Bass. I swapped 1 Mini Marty with this new PA460 box and the mid bass sounded so well. It had so much texture to its sound. Hard to explain but yeah PA 460 in that box worked very well with Mini Marty.

Its just crazy how amazing all these DIY subs are. Absolutely amazing stuff
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Last edited by harrisu; 03-16-2020 at 12:54 PM.
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post #1958 of 2571 Old 03-17-2020, 07:09 AM
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From the EQ/crossover settings on the first post

Filter/crossover:
Highpass 20hz Butterworth 12dB
Lowpass 250hz Butterworth 12dB

Why is the low pass on the high side of this subwoofer (250hz), normally we cross the sub at around 80hz, right?
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post #1959 of 2571 Old 03-17-2020, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Tried the VBSS earlier and I am thinking about selling my PB12-NSD Bass SLAM is tremendous. I thought the PB12 was loud enough for me and I even had second thoughts about building this subwoofer as the PB12 was already a very potent sub specially in the very near field position, but since I already had all the items except for the enclosure, I pushed through with the build . No regrets building this subwoofer, well worth the wait, 50 days for shipping for the driver as I live in Manila Philippines and numerous trips to hardware store to buy stuff for the enclosure, not to mention the body ache I am experiencing right now from sanding the enclosure.
A friend of mine just bought the SVS SB12 and is blown away - wants to buy more. I've never heard an SVS sub, I know they're nice, but I told him to come check out the PA460's before dropping another $1,000 on sealed 12's
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post #1960 of 2571 Old 03-18-2020, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
From the EQ/crossover settings on the first post

Filter/crossover:
Highpass 20hz Butterworth 12dB
Lowpass 250hz Butterworth 12dB

Why is the low pass on the high side of this subwoofer (250hz), normally we cross the sub at around 80hz, right?
That lowpass is not for the crossover to the speakers, you still need to use your AVR to set the subwoofer/speaker crossover frequency. That 250hz lowpass does a few things, it flattens the top end response a little before providing a gradual roll-off and helps cut down on noise that gets picked up in the signal chain from being reproduced by the woofer.
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post #1961 of 2571 Old 03-18-2020, 01:16 PM
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I am not using an AVR, I am using a vintage amp, MiniDSP and a power amp for the VBSS, so should I set the LPF to 80hz then ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
That lowpass is not for the crossover to the speakers, you still need to use your AVR to set the subwoofer/speaker crossover frequency. That 250hz lowpass does a few things, it flattens the top end response a little before providing a gradual roll-off and helps cut down on noise that gets picked up in the signal chain from being reproduced by the woofer.

Last edited by qguy; 03-18-2020 at 01:23 PM.
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post #1962 of 2571 Old 03-18-2020, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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In your case yes you can drop that to 80hz to achieve the proper crossover frequency, you should also change it to a 24dB slope.
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post #1963 of 2571 Old 03-20-2020, 06:36 AM
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I went ahead and took apart my nx3000d and added a decent amount of heatsinks on various warm components.
Probably doesn't 'need it' but I had a lot sitting around from old projects so might as well.

I've had a good week or two of listening and playing around with my 2 vbss units now.. and I'm still floored.
They are so fun, and really bring a lot more to movies. Wife loves them also, which is great.
Thanks again mtg90.
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post #1964 of 2571 Old 03-21-2020, 02:18 PM
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Is there a triangular corner version of the 15hz VBSS floating around?
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post #1965 of 2571 Old 03-21-2020, 02:56 PM
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I’m looking at getting a second hand iNuke 3000 or 6000 paired with a miniDSP HD to power 4 x VBSS.

Just wondering if I get the 3000, does that mean the miniDSP will only be able to DSP the two subs that are run in bridge? As opposed to the 6000 that can DSP all 4 subs separately?

Thanks!!
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post #1966 of 2571 Old 03-21-2020, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The Inuke 3000 can power eight subs total, four per channel but you only have those two channels of separate DSP to work with. The four channel version of the inuke 6000 is basically two 3000's in one unit, so you do have four separate channels to use and can add up to sixteen subs total (four per channel).

Usually if the subwoofers are colocated or symmetrically placed in the room (equidistant to MLP) they can be run on the same amplifier channel and share DSP settings.
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post #1967 of 2571 Old 03-21-2020, 06:52 PM
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Nx3000d setup question...

I have a NX3000D running 4 vbss.

2 sets are wired to output channel A and 2 sets are wired to output channel B.

I have ONE input from the avr to input channel A.

I want to be able to apply individually dsp to each set of channels, so I have it set in Biamp1 mode.

My issues is that I thought with this setup I would simply be able to turn the channel A attenuation knob off on the front when I wanted to run rew for channel B and vice versus for channel A, but this doesn't appear to work. Should it?

When I turn the attenuation knob of channel A off I get nothing being sent to the channel B vbss. It seems the channel A attenuation knob must be engaging for channel B to available. Is this right? Do I have to physically disconnect the channel A vbss set from the nx3000d to dsp channel B?


Thanks.


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--------------------------------------------------
Epson 5040, 150" 16:9 1.1gain, Source: HTPC w/madVR, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 4 diy Slim VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #1968 of 2571 Old 03-21-2020, 06:57 PM
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Have you tried splitting the single sub out on the avr and running a separate input to both channels on the amp?

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post #1969 of 2571 Old 03-21-2020, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by nbk13nw View Post
Have you tried splitting the single sub out on the avr and running a separate input to both channels on the amp?

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That's what I'm going to do next if the biamp1 method doesn't work (I'll have to order another cable). I would then just run the amp in dual mode, right?

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post #1970 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 06:01 AM
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Did not like the outcome of the stain, so BLACK it is









Been listening to this subwoofer for a week and it is AWESOME, This is my first DIY subwoofer build and I am now thinking of my second build, Why did I ever click the "DIY speaker and Subs" Link I HATE YOU ALL !!!

Thanks to @mtg90 !!!

Last edited by qguy; 03-23-2020 at 06:09 AM.
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post #1971 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Very nice, what is the external size for this version?

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post #1972 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 07:41 AM
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Height: 25.5
Depth: 26
Width: 21.5

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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Very nice, what is the external size for this version?
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post #1973 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Nx3000d setup question...

I have a NX3000D running 4 vbss.

2 sets are wired to output channel A and 2 sets are wired to output channel B.

I have ONE input from the avr to input channel A.

I want to be able to apply individually dsp to each set of channels, so I have it set in Biamp1 mode.

My issues is that I thought with this setup I would simply be able to turn the channel A attenuation knob off on the front when I wanted to run rew for channel B and vice versus for channel A, but this doesn't appear to work. Should it?

When I turn the attenuation knob of channel A off I get nothing being sent to the channel B vbss. It seems the channel A attenuation knob must be engaging for channel B to available. Is this right? Do I have to physically disconnect the channel A vbss set from the nx3000d to dsp channel B?


Thanks.


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The gain knob works on the input, not the output. So, if you only have signal going into channel A, then only the channel A gain knob will be functional when in BIAMP mode. As @nbk13nw suggested, you'll want to split the signal if you want to run separate gains.

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post #1974 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevchance View Post
The gain knob works on the input, not the output. So, if you only have signal going into channel A, then only the channel A gain knob will be functional when in BIAMP mode. As @nbk13nw suggested, you'll want to split the signal if you want to run separate gains.
Ok, thanks.

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post #1975 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 08:27 AM
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Using a Parasound HCA 1200ii,Which would be a better setting for my amp using the Dayton Pa-450

Bridged mono at 625 watts at 8 ohms or I have the option of just using one channel of the amp for 250 watts at 8 Ω / 450 watts at 4 Ω.
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post #1976 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Using a Parasound HCA 1200ii,Which would be a better setting for my amp using the Dayton Pa-450

Bridged mono at 625 watts at 8 ohms or I have the option of just using one channel of the amp for 250 watts at 8 Ω / 450 watts at 4 Ω.

For a single sub, bridged 8ohm.

For two, stereo 8ohm, but the amp is somewhat underpowered.

Chris


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post #1977 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 12:24 PM
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That Parasound HCA 1200ii should be pretty close power wise to what an Inuke 3000 does on a single channel.

I'll be using 2 of the 500 Watt Dayton DSP plate amps to power my 4 VBSS subs. I'm thinking it will be more than enough for my small 14 ft x 12 ft room.
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post #1978 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 01:44 PM
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Why not just one Inuke 3000 ?


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Originally Posted by BlueGhost View Post
That Parasound HCA 1200ii should be pretty close power wise to what an Inuke 3000 does on a single channel.

I'll be using 2 of the 500 Watt Dayton DSP plate amps to power my 4 VBSS subs. I'm thinking it will be more than enough for my small 14 ft x 12 ft room.
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post #1979 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Why not just one Inuke 3000 ?
Mainly, because it makes life easier on a project that's already taking too long.

My "theater" is a spare bedroom, I had the room pre-wired when the house was built. They ran coax cable from the closet my equipment is in at the back of the room to where my subs will be at the front.

I actually have an Inuke I was planning to use. But, I would either have to run heavy gauge speaker cable from the back of the room to the front, or find a way to make the Inuke quiet and dim to put it up front near the screen. The plate amps are just way easier.

I picked up some of the JBL 12s, I'll put them in a box and hook the Inunke up in the garage.
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post #1980 of 2571 Old 03-23-2020, 02:48 PM
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Thanks to @mtg90 for this awesome design and everyone helping each other in this thread.
Finally got one VBSS complete along with AT screen and a free standing stand for it to use in my unfinished basement theater. Nothing fancy, just a plain old black box.

Quite impressed with the sound it produces but I expected a little more chest thump. I knew I would not get much in the lower frequency. The volume of basement is probably too much. Probably will build one more to use the inuke 1000 dsp to its max potential and have a little more output.
Currently 20Hz settings loaded with yamaha receiver crossed at 80 Hz and running the LFE signal at +6 from the receiver and the knob on inuke at 3/4th.

Specs:
- the original specs for the cuts.
- titebond II for glue.
- PL premium for glue and seal the gaps where cutting was not precise.
- Two coats of rustoleum satin black enamel.
- #6 1 1/4" drywall screws to mount the driver. Glued pieces of 3/4" plywood at the screw positions behind the mdf baffle to give more wood for the screw to bite.
- Used 1-1/4" foam mattress topper from walmart to line the top, back, bottom and sides adjacent to speaker driver.
- Used the baffle to mount neutrik female panel mount connector to keep my option open if I ever wanted to use it as end table.
- Had to use 14 guage wire to connect the driver to the neutrik female panel mount connector. Couldnt get the belden 12 gauge speaker cable to work with the soldering iron on the connector.
- Used +1 and -1 on the neutrik female panel mount connector to keep it simple. If I ever use another amp, I can bring +1 -1 from it without having to guess.
Here are the results:

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With polk CSi5 on top and RTi8s as the front channels.

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DavidinGA and Bnaan like this.

living room: 60" 4k TV | XBox one S | Apple TV 4k | Fire tv stick 4k | Sony BDP 6500| Yamaha rx-v7810 | Polk Audio 65RT 7 channels | Dayton Audio sub-120 | incomplete theater: 166" 2.40:1 AT screen | Epson 5040ub | Sony SACD player | Sony BDP 6500 | Yamaha rx-v667 | Adcom 5600->Polk audio RTi8 | CSi5 | FXiA3 | RTi4 | inuke nu1000dsp -> 2 VBSS subwoofer |Office: Denon 1930CI SACD player | Yamaha rx-a730 | Polk RTi4
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