The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 76 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2251 of 2310 Old 05-23-2020, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Ok thanks.

I guess mine isn't affected, so I won't mess with it, but for reference...how many peq slots does this fix use up should I ever need it?
It uses up two extra PEQ slots as it's both DEQ filters that get moved for the 15 or 20hz versions. You would have 5 unused PEQ slots afterwards.

The 30hz version only has one filter so there will be 7 free slots.
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post #2252 of 2310 Old 05-23-2020, 02:34 PM
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I cut all the cuts done (minus the cutouts for the drivers, port, and terminal cup) for my dual driver VBSS today and the back, top, and sides glued together. I also painted the port, bottom and port brace to get ready to install tomorrow.
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post #2253 of 2310 Old 05-23-2020, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Slot port version.



2.5" high x 18" long slot port gives ~20hz tuning. Make it 7" long for the 30hz tune. For 15Hz you want the port to be 1.75" high and 24" long.



Drivers centers 12" down from top and 12" up from top of slot port.
Do we have dual vs single driver graphs or anticipated comparison results?

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Epson 5040, 150" 16:9 1.1gain, Source: HTPC w/madVR, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 4 diy Slim VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #2254 of 2310 Old 05-23-2020, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Do we have dual vs single driver graphs or anticipated comparison results?

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I'm no mtg90 but I read two drivers placed in close proximity act as one. So the dual should be no different than two vbss stacked. +3db (edit: it's 6db) across the spectrum.

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post #2255 of 2310 Old 05-23-2020, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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+6dB because you are doubling both the number subs and the total power.
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post #2256 of 2310 Old 05-24-2020, 03:11 PM
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This afternoon I got the bottom and port put in as well as all the bracing. It looks like that's as much as I'll get done before we leave for vacation. I was hoping to get the front baffle cut out and be ready for paint when I came back but that just didn't happen.


The craziness is about to resume. My daughters travel softball team plays their first post Corona Virus tournament the first weekend of June, my son's AAU basketball team has resumed practicing - they haven't announced when they will resume playing tournaments, and his school football team is starting workouts back up next Monday. I've grown tired of the quarantine, but I've certainly appreciated the reprieve from tournaments and practice taking up seemingly every day of the week.

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post #2257 of 2310 Old 05-24-2020, 03:33 PM
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One more thing.....I pulled my terminal block out that I bought today and noticed that the nuts on the back are sealed and it looks like I need a spade like crmp connection to hook speaker cables up to it (inside the cabinet). I'm thinking of ordering these from Parts Express and I guess I need a crimper too, any recommendations?



Note: I'll be running 14/2 inside the cabinet as that's what I have left over.


https://www.parts-express.com/0205-(...0-pcs--095-282






FYI: Here is the terminal cup I bought:
https://www.parts-express.com/square...-jack--260-284

7.4.4 Theater Room: JVC-RS500, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic UB420, Apple TV 4K, JBL Studio 530’s, 4 - 15" DIY Sealed Subs

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post #2258 of 2310 Old 05-24-2020, 03:36 PM
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Quarantine has saved me 2 hours a day commute. Because of the additional free time (and nowhere else open to go), I'll finish up my second VBSS tomorrow...except for the grills. PartsExpress is sold out of the kits until 6/7 so I only have one for now. The biggie will be rearranging/reconfiguring the whole entertainment center to accept the subs, amp, fans, etc...then there is tuning. I know it's gonna shake tho! I'm pretty excited, CFO doesn't care much for it. 😬
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post #2259 of 2310 Old 05-24-2020, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Quarantine has saved me 2 hours a day commute. Because of the additional free time (and nowhere else open to go), I'll finish up my second VBSS tomorrow...except for the grills. PartsExpress is sold out of the kits until 6/7 so I only have one for now. The biggie will be rearranging/reconfiguring the whole entertainment center to accept the subs, amp, fans, etc...then there is tuning. I know it's gonna shake tho! I'm pretty excited, CFO doesn't care much for it. 😬
I've used these for both of my VBSS builds and they work great and come with all of the hardware.

Goldwood Sound, Inc. Monitor Speaker And Subwoofer Part, Steel Waffle Woofer Grills with Hardware for 18" 2 Grill Set (SWG-18C-2) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX5ZZRH..._g5YYEb0H4HDXV
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post #2260 of 2310 Old 05-24-2020, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarkoff500 View Post
I've used these for both of my VBSS builds and they work great and come with all of the hardware.

Goldwood Sound, Inc. Monitor Speaker And Subwoofer Part, Steel Waffle Woofer Grills with Hardware for 18" 2 Grill Set (SWG-18C-2) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX5ZZRH..._g5YYEb0H4HDXV
Nice!

I went this route. https://www.parts-express.com/parts-...e-kit--260-346

Designed the front of the box around it and have the holes drilled on one so I'm committed. PE said they will have them soon or I'll make my own frames and use these pegs. https://www.simplyspeakers.com/speak...it-gc-peg.html
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post #2261 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 06:28 AM
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I’m looking to wire up a single VBSS to each channel of a NX 3000D and one channel of a 6000D tomorrow. Just want to confirm that I wire them in series and then just load the DSP files for the limiting?

Thanks!
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post #2262 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuns View Post
I’m looking to wire up a single VBSS to each channel of a NX 3000D and one channel of a 6000D tomorrow. Just want to confirm that I wire them in series and then just load the DSP files for the limiting?

Thanks!
With two drivers and two channels, you only have one hookup that makes sense to me, 1 per channel. I suppose you could bridge and run parallel if you need the wattage (but with that amp you shouldn't be struggling) but that's not what I'll be doing with the same setup.

Be sure and load the latest DSP by @mtg90 .
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post #2263 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
One more thing.....I pulled my terminal block out that I bought today and noticed that the nuts on the back are sealed and it looks like I need a spade like crmp connection to hook speaker cables up to it (inside the cabinet). I'm thinking of ordering these from Parts Express and I guess I need a crimper too, any recommendations?


Note: I'll be running 14/2 inside the cabinet as that's what I have left over.


https://www.parts-express.com/0205-(...0-pcs--095-282
I used these: https://www.parts-express.com/gold-1...-pair--095-810

Probably didn't need the gold plated - but that's what I used. I didn't realize they used 1/4" disconnects when I purchased. As for a crimper - I have a set of pro crimpers - but any crimper will work. Should be able to pick up anywhere.

For wire I had just bought a 100 ft roll of 14ga in wall speaker wire for my Atmos ceiling speakers so I stripped the outer casing off and used that. The conductors are red and black. 14 ga was likely fine but I did twist two conductors together so I have two 14 ga to each terminal.

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post #2264 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 11:11 AM
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Hey guys, I have a newbie question about this setup.

Why is the DSP required even if the receiver is already doing room correction? Shouldn't the room correction from the receiver also correct the VBSS without the need of a dedicated DSP?
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post #2265 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 02:07 PM
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Hey guys, I have a newbie question about this setup.

Why is the DSP required even if the receiver is already doing room correction? Shouldn't the room correction from the receiver also correct the VBSS without the need of a dedicated DSP?
Somebody smarter then me will give a better response, but basically the DSP in the amp isn't doing room correction. It's shaping the response and giving the driver protection from over-excursion. After you have the subs adjusted - you can still do the room correction DSP in you receiver for room correction.

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post #2266 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuns View Post
I’️m looking to wire up a single VBSS to each channel of a NX 3000D and one channel of a 6000D tomorrow. Just want to confirm that I wire them in series and then just load the DSP files for the limiting?

Thanks!
With two drivers and two channels, you only have one hookup that makes sense to me, 1 per channel. I suppose you could bridge and run parallel if you need the wattage (but with that amp you shouldn't be struggling) but that's not what I'll be doing with the same setup.

Be sure and load the latest DSP by @mtg90 .
Thank you for the new DSP.

I want to be able to fine tune each sub on separate channels with my MiniDSP, so I would assume bridge would not work for that.

I’ll wire them up one per channel in parallel. I was struggling to find a picture as wiring is new to me so a little confusing.
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post #2267 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dbuns View Post
Thank you for the new DSP.

I want to be able to fine tune each sub on separate channels with my MiniDSP, so I would assume bridge would not work for that.

I’ll wire them up one per channel in parallel. I was struggling to find a picture as wiring is new to me so a little confusing.
I don't understand. You want to drive 3 VBSS (assuming with PA-460s) with 2 amps, each on their own channel? Just hook up positive to positive, negative to negative. There's no "parallel" or "series" wiring involved.

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post #2268 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuns View Post
I’m looking to wire up a single VBSS to each channel of a NX 3000D and one channel of a 6000D tomorrow. Just want to confirm that I wire them in series and then just load the DSP files for the limiting?

Thanks!
If you have three subs and want them connected to three separate amplifier channels (two on the 3000 and 1 on the 6000) so you can adjust delay and EQ independently then do just that. No parallel or series connections needed. You only have to worry about that when connecting more then one driver per channel. Change the drive mode on the 3000/6000 to dual mono if you want to use the channels independently with separate inputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesar Canassa View Post
Hey guys, I have a newbie question about this setup.

Why is the DSP required even if the receiver is already doing room correction? Shouldn't the room correction from the receiver also correct the VBSS without the need of a dedicated DSP?
Like 5js said the DSP does two main things, response correction of the driver/enclosure and subsonic filtering/limiting to prevent damage to the driver and distortion. It's best to use the response correction in the DSP files even when using room correction as you are less likely to run into gain issues if the room correction runs out of available boost or decides to pull down the top end instead of boosting the bottom. This could leave you without enough voltage output from the AVR sub out to drive the amplifier to full power.
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post #2269 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuns View Post
I’️m looking to wire up a single VBSS to each channel of a NX 3000D and one channel of a 6000D tomorrow. Just want to confirm that I wire them in series and then just load the DSP files for the limiting?

Thanks!
If you have three subs and want them connected to three separate amplifier channels (two on the 3000 and 1 on the 6000) so you can adjust delay and EQ independently then do just that. No parallel or series connections needed. You only have to worry about that when connecting more then one driver per channel. Change the drive mode on the 3000/6000 to dual mono if you want to use the channels independently with separate inputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesar Canassa View Post
Hey guys, I have a newbie question about this setup.

Why is the DSP required even if the receiver is already doing room correction? Shouldn't the room correction from the receiver also correct the VBSS without the need of a dedicated DSP?
Like 5js said the DSP does two main things, response correction of the driver/enclosure and subsonic filtering/limiting to prevent damage to the driver and distortion. It's best to use the response correction in the DSP files even when using room correction as you are less likely to run into gain issues if the room correction runs out of available boost or decides to pull down the top end instead of boosting the bottom. This could leave you without enough voltage output from the AVR sub out to drive the amplifier to full power.
Thanks for clearing it up for me. Sorry for the confusion, as I said it’s all new to me. Cheers
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post #2270 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 04:15 PM
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I currently have 1 HT18v2 and 2 PN470s, each on their own mini-Marty-esque sized ported enclosures tuned around 18hz. These are currently powered by a 6000DSP and reside behind my screen.

I now have a couple UM18s on the way and plan to replace the PN470s with them. The UMs will be powered by their own 6000DSP that I have had sitting in a closet for a couple years now.

So, I'd like to build new enclosures for the PN470s and place them to each side of my seating (replacing my trusty SVS PC12-NSD). I've been eyeing the slot ported 20hz VBSS. I believe the PN470 has slightly more power handling and xmax than the PA460.

For my placement, I've got roughly 36"h x 22"w x 24"d to work with. So since the 22" width is going to require a bit of size tweaking from the standard VBSS anyway, I was curious if anyone thinks I would gain enough benefit in going with a larger enclosure to justify it? Or if the standard VBSS (slightly tweaked for the 22" width) would work just fine with the PN470s?

The other option I'm considering is to build a 13" deep x 7' long enclosure to go directly behind the center seating, but that's a separate discussion. Ha.

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post #2271 of 2310 Old 05-25-2020, 04:36 PM
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Is 16 gauge speaker wire OK for connecting the driver? I used 12 on my first two VBSS but 16 is all I have left.

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post #2272 of 2310 Old 05-26-2020, 10:07 AM
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Is 16 gauge speaker wire OK for connecting the driver? I used 12 on my first two VBSS but 16 is all I have left.

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I'm not sure about the 16ga, but another option would be to double up the 16ga like I did.

See: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post59705064
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post #2273 of 2310 Old 05-26-2020, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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16 gauge is fine for internal wiring, if your using an NX3000 there isn't a huge amount of power being pushed to the driver and it's 8 ohms so amp draw though the wire is ~0.7x what a 4 ohm driver would need at the same wattage.
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post #2274 of 2310 Old 05-26-2020, 03:08 PM
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16 gauge is fine for internal wiring, if your using an NX3000 there isn't a huge amount of power being pushed to the driver and it's 8 ohms so amp draw though the wire is ~0.7x what a 4 ohm driver would need at the same wattage.
Would it ever need to be larger than the wall cord that is power supply for both channels and amp losses?
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post #2275 of 2310 Old 05-27-2020, 11:49 AM
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Vinyl done on one sub. Front and back will get paint. I am quite happy with the way it came out. Will match well with my Polks bookshelf speakers that will set on top.

I will say I was a little nervous about working with a 10ft piece of vinyl that had to wrap the entire perimeter. The first foot was a struggle - then I had my son help me. We found that if he held the excess at an angle approx 20 degrees off the surface and I used the squeegee but only worked about 1" at a time we weren't getting wrinkles or bubbles. Another thing I learned - if you do get some small wrinkles they may come out with a heat gun - if not they will form a little bubble. You can put a needle through the bubble, heat up, and it will press right down.

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REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Polk PSW-250 (Dual VBSS under construction)
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post #2276 of 2310 Old 05-27-2020, 01:37 PM
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Vinyl done on one sub. Front and back will get paint. I am quite happy with the way it came out. Will match well with my Polks bookshelf speakers that will set on top.

I will say I was a little nervous about working with a 10ft piece of vinyl that had to wrap the entire perimeter. The first foot was a struggle - then I had my son help me. We found that if he held the excess at an angle approx 20 degrees off the surface and I used the squeegee but only worked about 1" at a time we weren't getting wrinkles or bubbles. Another thing I learned - if you do get some small wrinkles they may come out with a heat gun - if not they will form a little bubble. You can put a needle through the bubble, heat up, and it will press right down.

That looks fantastic! What are you going to use for paint and how are you going to apply it?
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post #2277 of 2310 Old 05-27-2020, 01:37 PM
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The vinyl looks great! Where did you purchase it?

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DIY 110" AT Screen
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post #2278 of 2310 Old 05-27-2020, 01:47 PM
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That looks fantastic! What are you going to use for paint and how are you going to apply it?
Thank you!

Behr Marquee Limousine Leather in an eggshell finish, applied with Purdy fine nap roller. Should match the color/finish of the polk front/back pretty well. I applied two coats of 50/50 PVA/water and sanded with 220 then 320. Made a nice hard and smooth finish. Should paint nicely. If I were to do it again I may buy a dedicated sanding sealer but I thought I'd try the PVA/water mix to see how it worked. Done a lot of woodworking but MDF is new to me.

REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Polk PSW-250 (Dual VBSS under construction)
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post #2279 of 2310 Old 05-27-2020, 01:52 PM
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The vinyl looks great! Where did you purchase it?
Vivinyl on Amazon. Got a 48" x 10ft roll which works out perfectly for dual VBSS's. The company did recommend 3M primer 94 as an adhesion promoter for the edges. Very little product for the money but I used it on the corners and edges. After the vinyl adheres for 24 hours I'm going to paint the front and back which should assist with "sealing" the edges (though they seem very sealed already). I will say I am very happy with the way the vinyl looks - matches my Polks perfectly.

EDIT: The vinyl is a matte finish with a "grain" texture to it. Very nice.

REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Polk PSW-250 (Dual VBSS under construction)
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post #2280 of 2310 Old 05-27-2020, 02:41 PM
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@mtg90 – So I’ve read a lot on whether or not damping is effective or not – and the pro’s/con’s. Regardless, I have added 1 ¼” of foam mattress topper on the side and back wall of the upper cavity of the VBSS (nothing in the lower cavity where the ports are).

In reading – it seems for the mattress topper material you really 2” to be effective below 80hz where the VBSS will be operating.

Anyway my question is should I put 2” of foam just under the driver in the front “window pane” – leaving the back “window pane” open to the woofer/ports? The foam would be just under the driver and on top of the ports. <see pic below>. I think similar placement to your denim insulation under the driver. Just want to make sure I don't do more harm then help.

[/QUOTE]


REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Polk PSW-250 (Dual VBSS under construction)
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