The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2521 of 2600 Old 06-18-2020, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
Did you apply the DSP settings from the first post in this thread? I guess that depends on what the answer to ccarrigan1's question is? Maybe the filters he is talking about do need massaged a bit.

Well, I sure think I did. I'd never uploaded a DSP file before so there is always a possibility I didn't do it right.

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post #2522 of 2600 Old 06-18-2020, 09:41 PM
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So it sounds like a umik-1 is a pretty necessary thing to get the VBSS dialed in.

Is the off the shelf good enough or do I need the calibrated one from cross-spectrum?

Home Theater / Game Room
110" Elite Screens Spectrum motorized screen - Epson 5040UB
Atmos 7.2.4 - Onkyo TX-NR1030 - Onkyo M-5010 2ch amp for Atmos overhead - Fluance XL7 Fronts, Center and Surrounds, Rear Monoprice 4101 8" kevlar in-wall, Ceiling Yamaha NS-IW280CWH - Subs 4 18" VBSS with Dayton Audio PA460 drivers, sub amp Behringer NX3000D

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post #2523 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTpusher View Post
So it sounds like a umik-1 is a pretty necessary thing to get the VBSS dialed in.

Is the off the shelf good enough or do I need the calibrated one from cross-spectrum?
They all are calibrated, just go to the site once you receive, plug in the serial # and get the file
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post #2524 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 09:45 AM
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Well, I sure think I did. I'd never uploaded a DSP file before so there is always a possibility I didn't do it right.

You should have a dsp config listed in the software and a few filters that are set, with the first 2 I believe having a large 20hz boost. If that's the case you likely have it uploaded correctly.
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post #2525 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTpusher View Post
So it sounds like a umik-1 is a pretty necessary thing to get the VBSS dialed in.

Is the off the shelf good enough or do I need the calibrated one from cross-spectrum?
I think it is more accurate to say it takes something like REW and a UMIK-1 to dial any system in - especially in the sub area. This is not unique to the VBSS.
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REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
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post #2526 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5js View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTpusher View Post
So it sounds like a umik-1 is a pretty necessary thing to get the VBSS dialed in.

Is the off the shelf good enough or do I need the calibrated one from cross-spectrum?
I think it is more accurate to say it takes something like REW and a UMIK-1 to dial any system in - especially in the sub area. This is not unique to the VBSS.
Thanks for clarification! I can see how that might be misleading.

Ordered from parts-express this morning. I think I've bought everything I need... (I hope &#x1f606
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post #2527 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarrigan1 View Post
You should have a dsp config listed in the software and a few filters that are set, with the first 2 I believe having a large 20hz boost. If that's the case you likely have it uploaded correctly.

The way the VBSS was acting, it makes sense that the config file didn't work. It doesn't look like it saved to me can someone confirm, and if it didn't let me know what I am supposed to do after I load from the PC Presets?
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post #2528 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
The way the VBSS was acting, it makes sense that the config file didn't work. It doesn't look like it saved to me can someone confirm, and if it didn't let me know what I am supposed to do after I load from the PC Presets?
looks right. Once you load the file you should be able to scroll through the front panel of the Behringer to verify it is running the correct profile.
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REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Dual VBSS w/Behringer NX3000D
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post #2529 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 03:02 PM
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I haven't received my new Denon AVR so for now re-ran Audyssey for the dual VBSS's on my Onkyo AVR which only has 2EQ . Initially I had the Behringer attenuation set at 55% and Audyssey set the subs at -15dB which is the max attenuation. So, I adjusted the Behringer to 50% and re-ran Audyssey. This time is set the subs at -11dB. REW still show a big bass boost - not sure why Audyssey only gave the -11dB. Sounds good to me - but I'm no audiophile. Just surprised it gave left such a bass boost.

I'm not going to do much tweaking at this point as I should be getting the new Denon soon and that has MultEQ XT32. I just wanted to do a quick REW plot based on the post above.

I'm not sure what room volume you all have running more then two VBSS's in but even at the Behringer set to 50% I'm getting plenty of bass - and I only see the green lights on the Behringer coming on. May need to watch a few more movies to see if I can see a yellow light.

Like I said - not gonna tweak much at this point - but just wondering, if I were how would you modify this curve? Reduce the peak at 48Hz? Maybe the smaller peaks at 23/26/56Hz?

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REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Dual VBSS w/Behringer NX3000D
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post #2530 of 2600 Old 06-19-2020, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5js View Post
Like I said - not gonna tweak much at this point - but just wondering, if I were how would you modify this curve? Reduce the peak at 48Hz? Maybe the smaller peaks at 23/26/56Hz?


You could knock down the peak at ~40Hz maybe 3dB I suppose. A PEQ of -3dB @40Hz with a Q of 2-3 might do it, but I'd run a few sweeps to get the frequency and Q dialed in. You really just want to knock off the peak from about 35-45Hz and flatten it to about 93dB. That would make the response shape pretty dang good up to about 60Hz. Perceptually, you may not even notice the peak, though 3dB is said to be the level where it can be heard.



If it were me, I'd want to bring up the response around 80Hz, but that notch there suggests it is a room null or floor bounce or some other cancellation that is decreasing your output in that range. Playing with the sub delay might help that notch a bit, but you never know unless you try it and run a bunch of sweeps with various settings. It also might not even be that bad at other locations. You'd need to run an RTA measurement with periodic pink noise to see how it looks across the various listening positions.


All in all though that is a pretty decent response. It should have good chest thump being 10dB hot at 60Hz, and the PA460s are known for that! That's part of the reason I bought their big brother today!
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post #2531 of 2600 Old 06-20-2020, 06:55 AM
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I just set mine up and it didn't seem to shut the Behringer off. So, I went to read the APC manual and 30 secs later the amp shut off. Not sure if that's was due to the APC strip or if the Onkyo AVR draws a bit of extra current for 30 seconds.

Your experience?

Not that it's an issue - 30 secs later is fine - just curious.
As a follow up. I get the power off delay IF HDMI control is set to ON in the Onkyo (which I have on to allow smart TV content to play through the AVR via eARC). If I set HDMI control to OFF the Behringer shuts off with the Onkyo AVR.

As I said - the 30 sec delay is no concern - was just an observation. Now I know that it's a setting in the Onkyo that causing the power off delay.

REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Dual VBSS w/Behringer NX3000D
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post #2532 of 2600 Old 06-20-2020, 11:50 AM
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I haven't received my new Denon AVR so for now re-ran Audyssey for the dual VBSS's on my Onkyo AVR which only has 2EQ . Initially I had the Behringer attenuation set at 55% and Audyssey set the subs at -15dB which is the max attenuation. So, I adjusted the Behringer to 50% and re-ran Audyssey. This time is set the subs at -11dB. REW still show a big bass boost - not sure why Audyssey only gave the -11dB. Sounds good to me - but I'm no audiophile. Just surprised it gave left such a bass boost.

I'm not going to do much tweaking at this point as I should be getting the new Denon soon and that has MultEQ XT32. I just wanted to do a quick REW plot based on the post above.

I'm not sure what room volume you all have running more then two VBSS's in but even at the Behringer set to 50% I'm getting plenty of bass - and I only see the green lights on the Behringer coming on. May need to watch a few more movies to see if I can see a yellow light.

Like I said - not gonna tweak much at this point - but just wondering, if I were how would you modify this curve? Reduce the peak at 48Hz? Maybe the smaller peaks at 23/26/56Hz?

FYI - I just realized that the mode that was being auto set by the Onkyo (Direct) disables Audyssey so these graphs are not representative of what I hear when listening as I would normally have Audyssey enabled. To have Audyssey enabled for the checks I needed to set the mode to stereo.

I did a bunch of checks (with Audyssey enabled) Left, Right, Left & Right, Left Sub, Right Sub, Both Subs, Left/Right and Both subs. Used the EQ function on each sub sweep to generate filters to equalize levels, reduce the peaks, and have a 6dB "house curve" for the subs. Inputted these to the Behringer - but wasn't seeing what I expected. Pretty sure it's because I don't know what I'm doing - lol. Anyway - I'll do some more testing later.

Things sound okay and I wasn't planning on tweaking too much until I get the new AVR with Audyssey X32 but it was 95 degrees out - so I thought I'd play inside today. Pretty much learned I don't know what I'm doing with getting the filters active - or maybe not fully appreciating/understanding boundary interaction. (I do get that I cannot boost nulls due to the room - but I was having issues reducing peaks).

REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Dual VBSS w/Behringer NX3000D
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post #2533 of 2600 Old 06-20-2020, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
The way the VBSS was acting, it makes sense that the config file didn't work. It doesn't look like it saved to me can someone confirm, and if it didn't let me know what I am supposed to do after I load from the PC Presets?
Load the preset from PC, select a one of the unused amp presets (add name in needed) click store. That preset should now be loaded when the amplifier is powered up. If you don't store the preset in a slot it will revert to the previous or default settings after a power cycle.
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post #2534 of 2600 Old 06-22-2020, 09:52 AM
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Hm..? I need to read through some old pages I assume.

There's a new/replacement dsp config for the NX series amps?
..but this will now take up some peq slots? I currently use up all my peq slots.. uh oh.

I suppose I'll have to redo my REW anywho.. but I'm just verifying before I go through this.
This should be done for all NX3000 amps? Yes?

*Dug back through to older pages.

While I don't believe I am affected.. I am still fairly uncertain how things 'should' sound.
I will load the new 20hz dsp file, and report results.

**
Loaded new NX DSP files and wow.
I was shaking before.. but now, I'm actually sure that max output would break my house.
Time to re-run REW.
***
Yep. Definitely more punch to it now. Thanks for the update, and help.

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post #2535 of 2600 Old 06-24-2020, 06:47 AM
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Getting ready for my build this weekend. I think I have everything - I'm going to need.

This will be my setup

Avr onkyo tx-nr1030 sub out > approx 30ft RCA run > nx3000d > speakon 4 vbss slim cab

Some questions

Will I need 2 rca to xlr cablesv to feed the nx3000d? (inuke was a cooler name)

If yes, I'll also need an RCA splitter. I am using the second sub output to run some bass shakers.

I'm open to ideas on how to run 4 vbss and 4 Dayton BST-1 units off of one nx3000d.

And I was reading that often the subwoofer output doesn't have enough voltage to feed the nx3000d. What is the box called that boosts that signal? How would I know if I need it?

Here's a new pic of the accumulated boxes so far...
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Home Theater / Game Room
110" Elite Screens Spectrum motorized screen - Epson 5040UB
Atmos 7.2.4 - Onkyo TX-NR1030 - Onkyo M-5010 2ch amp for Atmos overhead - Fluance XL7 Fronts, Center and Surrounds, Rear Monoprice 4101 8" kevlar in-wall, Ceiling Yamaha NS-IW280CWH - Subs 4 18" VBSS with Dayton Audio PA460 drivers, sub amp Behringer NX3000D

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post #2536 of 2600 Old 06-24-2020, 06:56 AM
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Will I need 2 rca to xlr cablesv to feed the nx3000d? (inuke was a cooler name)
No, you can use one of the Biamp modes with a single input connection to drive both channels.

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And I was reading that often the subwoofer output doesn't have enough voltage to feed the nx3000d. What is the box called that boosts that signal? How would I know if I need it?
Cleanbox Pro. You'll know if you need one if you can't get the lights on front of the nx3k going (I don't know if Onkyos typically have this problem).
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post #2537 of 2600 Old 06-26-2020, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Load the preset from PC, select a one of the unused amp presets (add name in needed) click store. That preset should now be loaded when the amplifier is powered up. If you don't store the preset in a slot it will revert to the previous or default settings after a power cycle.

Thanks Matt - I wasn't saving it to a pre-set slot.
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7.4.4 Theater Room: JVC-RS500, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic UB420, Apple TV 4K, JBL Studio 530’s, Dual Driver VBSS

3.1 Living Room: Samsung 64” F8500 Plasma, Anthem MRX 300, Dynaudio Audience 52’s, Dynaudio Audience 122C, NHT SubOne, Roku Express (2019)
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post #2538 of 2600 Old 06-26-2020, 07:19 AM
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Heres mine monsters
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post #2539 of 2600 Old 06-26-2020, 07:23 AM
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I'm ready for the PA-460 to go on sale so I can build some additional Dual Driver versions.

7.4.4 Theater Room: JVC-RS500, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic UB420, Apple TV 4K, JBL Studio 530’s, Dual Driver VBSS

3.1 Living Room: Samsung 64” F8500 Plasma, Anthem MRX 300, Dynaudio Audience 52’s, Dynaudio Audience 122C, NHT SubOne, Roku Express (2019)
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post #2540 of 2600 Old 06-26-2020, 09:04 AM
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I'm ready for the PA-460 to go on sale so I can build some additional Dual Driver versions.
I used these Rockvilles in 4 ohm. They smash!
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post #2541 of 2600 Old 06-27-2020, 06:48 AM
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I'm ready for the PA-460 to go on sale so I can build some additional Dual Driver versions.
I used these Rockvilles in 4 ohm. They smash!
What amp are you using? How are they wired?
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post #2542 of 2600 Old 06-27-2020, 08:11 AM
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What amp are you using? How are they wired?
I'm using a NX300D in Dual mode, 1 VBSS per channel. Right now I have the 15hz tune and that's about where they disappear.

Let me put it this way...WAF has nothing to do with the size or appearance on the boxes. These things will give you heart a massage!
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post #2543 of 2600 Old 06-27-2020, 08:34 AM
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What amp are you using? How are they wired?
I'm using a NX300D in Dual mode, 1 VBSS per channel. Right now I have the 15hz tune and that's about where they disappear.

Let me put it this way...WAF has nothing to do with the size or appearance on the boxes. These things will give you heart a massage!
I believe it, I can't even begin to think about turning my dual on my 1000 beyond 12 o'clock haha
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post #2544 of 2600 Old 06-27-2020, 12:25 PM
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Ran into a snag. For those building 38" tall slim cabs, know the > 38" bar clamps are expensive and hard to find right now. Harbor freight doesn't ship those either. My local stores are also out of clamps bigger than 12"...

I'm thinking of a couple of solutions.

1. using two clamps combined for the 38" length - not sure of these will line up correctly.

2. Using brad nails, crown staples, or screws on the bottom and
weights on the top. Since I'm building 4 boxes, I'm leaning towards just buying a few clamps and then screwing everything in and use bondo / spackle to fill in the holes. Should make 4 boxes go a lot faster as well...

Open to suggestions 🙂

Now to practice cutting a hole in mdf... I'm new to using a router to cut a circle. I bought a Jasper jig and watched a bunch of videos - looks easy...

Happy Saturday!

Home Theater / Game Room
110" Elite Screens Spectrum motorized screen - Epson 5040UB
Atmos 7.2.4 - Onkyo TX-NR1030 - Onkyo M-5010 2ch amp for Atmos overhead - Fluance XL7 Fronts, Center and Surrounds, Rear Monoprice 4101 8" kevlar in-wall, Ceiling Yamaha NS-IW280CWH - Subs 4 18" VBSS with Dayton Audio PA460 drivers, sub amp Behringer NX3000D

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post #2545 of 2600 Old 06-27-2020, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTpusher View Post
Ran into a snag. For those building 38" tall slim cabs, know the > 38" bar clamps are expensive and hard to find right now. Harbor freight doesn't ship those either. My local stores are also out of clamps bigger than 12"...
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pony-Pipe-Clamp/1000988984 and whatever length of pipe you need.

I've also used the multiple clamp method, although that becomes cumbersome quickly.

I build most of my boxes with brad nails/staples from a pneumatic gun. I avoid using screws on MDF because it splits so easily. If you go with screws, be sure to pre-drill the holes.
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Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

Speaker builds: DIYSG HTM-10 build | DIYSG Volt-6 build | DIYSG Fusion-8 builds
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post #2546 of 2600 Old 06-27-2020, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pony-Pipe-Clamp/1000988984 and whatever length of pipe you need.

I've also used the multiple clamp method, although that becomes cumbersome quickly.

I build most of my boxes with brad nails/staples from a pneumatic gun. I avoid using screws on MDF because it splits so easily. If you go with screws, be sure to pre-drill the holes.
Thanks for the guidance!

The pipe clamps are more than I want to spend. I'm over budget as is (I was gonna build two, but decided to do four 🙂 )

I've screwed boxes before (car subs) and know about pre-drilling and have a counter sink. I did buy a corner clamp.

I decided to use a combination of staples and screws on the first one and go from there.

If I end up needing clamps, I'll have to order them. I'm surprised there's no cheap ones on Amazon... I have no patience I want to get started 😆

Home Theater / Game Room
110" Elite Screens Spectrum motorized screen - Epson 5040UB
Atmos 7.2.4 - Onkyo TX-NR1030 - Onkyo M-5010 2ch amp for Atmos overhead - Fluance XL7 Fronts, Center and Surrounds, Rear Monoprice 4101 8" kevlar in-wall, Ceiling Yamaha NS-IW280CWH - Subs 4 18" VBSS with Dayton Audio PA460 drivers, sub amp Behringer NX3000D
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post #2547 of 2600 Old 07-01-2020, 08:46 AM
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Grill cloth finally came in so I was able to finish my dual VBSS subs. Below are some pics with and without the grill. The next to last pic is a close up of the grilll. I beveled the edges to match the Polks that are on top. The last pic is before the subs.

Really happy with the performance of these subs - and love the way these came out. My new Denon AVR-X3700H should be here later today so I can set everything up and integrate the subs & mains










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REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Dual VBSS w/Behringer NX3000D

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post #2548 of 2600 Old 07-01-2020, 09:25 AM
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Grill cloth finally came in so I was able to finish my dual VBSS subs. Below are some pics with and without the grill. The next to last pic is a close up of the grilll. I beveled the edges to match the Polks that are on top. The last pic is before the subs.

Really happy with the performance of these subs - and love the way these came out. My new Denon AVR-X3700H should be here later today so I can set everything up and integrate the subs & mains


That looks really sharp!

I am looking at starting the VBSS build - where did you get the grill cloth from? Do they just connect to the sub with rubber nubs?
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post #2549 of 2600 Old 07-01-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mixma View Post
That looks really sharp!

I am looking at starting the VBSS build - where did you get the grill cloth from? Do they just connect to the sub with rubber nubs?
I got most everything at Parts Express.

This is the grill cloth I used: https://www.parts-express.com/parts-...-wide--260-335

..and these are the mounts I used: https://www.parts-express.com/parts-...-pair--260-367
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REC: Onkyo TX-NR609 (Denon AVR X3600H on order)
HDR TV: Vizio M658-G1
L/R: Polk RT15i , C: Polk 245i , Atmos: Polk MC60, SL/SR: Polk Rt15i , SUB: Dual VBSS w/Behringer NX3000D
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post #2550 of 2600 Old 07-01-2020, 09:11 PM
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Some progress!!!

Three more to go. Should be able to finish the other three tomorrow. Going to cut the baffles out on Friday.

Made a few mistakes. That was expected and thankfully nothing major.

My ryobi narrow crown staple gun sucks for this. (No clamps). Breaking out the brad nailer and compressor tomorrow.

Counter sunk a few screws to act as clamps. The excess glue is filling a tiny gap.

I got ahead of myself and forgot to paint the port...oh well - I'll buy some fancy brush to get in there.

I have a better plan for tomorrow 🙂

More to come!
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Home Theater / Game Room
110" Elite Screens Spectrum motorized screen - Epson 5040UB
Atmos 7.2.4 - Onkyo TX-NR1030 - Onkyo M-5010 2ch amp for Atmos overhead - Fluance XL7 Fronts, Center and Surrounds, Rear Monoprice 4101 8" kevlar in-wall, Ceiling Yamaha NS-IW280CWH - Subs 4 18" VBSS with Dayton Audio PA460 drivers, sub amp Behringer NX3000D
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