Enclosure design: 15" RE SE - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Enclosure design: 15" RE SE

Hi All,

I've been a lurker for a few years and decided to make an account FINALLY

I am seeking some help with getting an enclosure built for my 15" Resonant Engineering SE model woofer Dual 4 ohm (v1 original). I've had this in my closet for about 7 years, brand new still in the box! I've been into car audio for about 10 years and recently started getting into the home audio about 3 years ago and love everything about it. I'm ready for a DIY project!

Here's what i have and here is what im looking to achieve with this system, also my future plans: First off i will be using this for 70% music and 30% movies. I have an Onkyo tx-sr806, behringer ep2500/behringer feedback destroyer pro EQ, 15" re se woofer, cerwin vega e712 towers, cerwin vega XLS-6 surrounds and a BIC PL-28ii center channel. I plan to run the RE SE 15" on one channel of the behringer and i plan to run a Dayton UM-18 OR a SI 18 (which ever i buy) on the other channel.


Living room is 25ft x 14ft (8ft ceiling) open floor concept, breakfast bar on the back side with 8ft opening that looks into living room from kitchen. Max dimensions for the 15" sub box is 20"W x 20" D x 29.75".

What would be the correct NET cubic feet for this enclosure, tuning, square inches of port area etc??...for tuning im just guessing i wouldnt need to tune to 15-20hz or anything that low sense its for music mainly but i could be wrong? Here are the T/S specs of the woofer:

Nominal Impendance = 4 ohm
Free Air Resonance (Fs) = 22hz
Efficiency (SPL 1W/1m) = 88db
Effective Piston Area (Sd) = 810 cm sq.
Thermal power handling (Pe) =600 watts
DC resistance Per coil (Re) =2.8 ohm
Equivalent Compliance (Vas) =209 liters
One-way Linear excursion (Xmax) = 18mm
Electrical Q value (Qes) = 0.55
Mechanical Q value (Qms) = 4.3
Total speaker Q value (Qts) = 0.49
Force factor (Bl) = 17.7


Any and ALL help is greatly appreciated! Thanks fellas

Last edited by BlackNyellow787; 12-10-2015 at 05:15 PM.
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post #2 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 06:29 PM
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750 watts sends the driver just past xmax in a 9 cubic footer tuned to 17hz.


this is the winisd model *NOT* considering inductance effects on the top end. those are likely to be significant. depending on the inductance, you may also lose a smidge around the tuning frequency, but something like this cab probably works ok.




this cab, but obviously with a driver cutout that suits your driver is the model. if you want a different form factor, that works, just keep the port area and length and the internal net cab volume all the same and it will perform pretty much the same.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post38398561

good luck with your project.
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post #3 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 06:57 PM
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Ok I take a stab at getting the conversation started. I am a total noob but I'll share what I know from hovering around the forums . . . if I am wrong someone will be along shortly to school me.

The advantage to a ported design is that the port provides output where the driver itself becomes less effective at doing it. By NOT tuning in the 15-20 Hz range the port will reinforce frequencies the driver was already reproducing, thereby creating a substantial increase in output at the tuning frequency relative to the higher frequencies. If port tuning causes the sub to output 90db @ 30-40 hz while 40-100 is flat @ 80db there will be a nasty BOOM when you enter that frequency range.

If I entered everything into WinISD correctly, this driver wants a big box. To manage port size, the box would be in the ballpark of 8 cuft, much larger than you want. At the ~5 cuft you wanted, a 6" port that is 2.9' long is going to be a tough squeeze for a tuning frequency of 20Hz (not too bad of a hump in frequency response but tuning to 17 Hz would require like another foot of port). You COULD reduce the port diameter to 4" but at higher listening levels port air velocity is going to be a problem (I am not a 100% on what power input you should use to choose port size, I have always used near the RMS power handling of the speaker as a worst case scenario, I don't know if a port can be TOO LARGE at lower power input . . .)

So what are we left with? I would honestly forget about doing ported. You said this sub with be for 70% music, so you really wont use the port that much and it may be worth making the design/build process easier. I have always enjoyed canned worms, so I will say that I have heard that sealed subs are more "musical" but this may all be a product of how well the sub was planned, I make no claim either way.

Looking at your gear, I think sealed makes sense too. EP2500 has more power than you need PER CHANNEL, which is more than enough for a hungry sealed sub. The feedback destroyer is also capable of DSP if I'm not mistaken, so later you could play around with a linkwitz transform if you end up wanting more low end output. I think a 15" driver is also plenty capable of providing enough low end to make the occasional movie watcher happy.

My one concern is how large/open the area seems, this can be a real detriment to sub performance, however it is something a lot of people deal with effectively.
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post #4 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 07:01 PM
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HA. And LTD02 beats me to the first reply.

Considering he shows up in almost everything I have ever read on AVSForum, certainly expect better info from him :P
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post #5 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses guys. I'm still a newb though...
@LTD02 the 9 cubes WinISD is calling for is definitely WAY to big for the space i have to work with. I have 6.89 cu ft. gross to work with. Im really surprised WinISD came up with that big of an enclosure...RE recommends 4.0-4.5 net cubes tuned at 34hz, i know thats for car audio but just wondering why such a big jump in enclosure volume? Is the ported enclosure pretty much out of the picture for me with the space i have?

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post #6 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 09:12 PM
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my apologies, I didn't see where you mentioned the max cab size in your post. that is only about 5 cubic feet net internal. with that driver, in that space, sealed is your best bet.

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post #7 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 09:16 PM
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here is the driver in 4 cubic feet sealed, with 750 watts which sends the driver a little past xmax. the amp puts out somewhere around 60 volts per channel, but doesn't have quite the power supply to hold that in a lower impedance load, so this is roughly what you'll end up with, maybe a hair more.


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post #8 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChompenstein View Post
HA. And LTD02 beats me to the first reply.

Considering he shows up in almost everything I have ever read on AVSForum, certainly expect better info from him :P
maybe, but sometimes ltd02 don't always read all the infos in the posts. :-)

your advice was good. (though a properly designed ported cab should sound no different than a sealed cab. most of the problems folks report with ported are tunings that are too high and/or ports that are too small.)

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post #9 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
(though a properly designed ported cab should sound no different than a sealed cab. most of the problems folks report with ported are tunings that are too high and/or ports that are too small.)
Yeah, that makes sense. That's why all those htib ported subs are boomy, there just inst enough room in the box for a port tuned low.

Which is the issue we have here, although still in MUCH better standing than htib type subs.

Good to know I got the WinISD part more or less correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNyellow787 View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm still a newb though...
@LTD02 the 9 cubes WinISD is calling for is definitely WAY to big for the space i have to work with. I have 6.89 cu ft. gross to work with. Im really surprised WinISD came up with that big of an enclosure...RE recommends 4.0-4.5 net cubes tuned at 34hz, i know thats for car audio but just wondering why such a big jump in enclosure volume? Is the ported enclosure pretty much out of the picture for me with the space i have?
4.0-4.5 @ 34hz seems like it is asking for trouble. In the graphs @LTD02 posted, just like what I saw on mine, the driver models beautifully through the 34hz region. Reinforcement from a port at that frequency will create a nasty jump in output. Output would maintain a +3db increase from 60hz down to 32hz with a +7db gain at port tuning. I have no idea where RE got those plans. Factor in room gain and that will be VERY boomy.

Is ported out of the picture? Kind of. It just becomes problematic trying to fit a large port in that small of a box. At 6" in diameter and like 3 feet long, it will be hard to position and it takes out another ~.5 cuft from your net volume (port volume doesn't count as box volume, it must be subtracted.) For this driver, and that box size, ported isn't ideal.

I wont rule it out, creativity abounds on this forum. I have seen stuff like external ports, that could be hidden behind a couch. Subs disguised as large ottomans (I believe LTD02 was actually the contributor of that post). You could change shapes to accommodate port, make the whole thing tall and skinny, or flatish
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post #10 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 09:57 PM
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post #11 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 09:59 PM
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This is the link where they talked about the ottoman sub.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...ed-ported.html
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post #12 of 40 Old 12-10-2015, 10:01 PM
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And the link mentioned in that thread . . .

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...man-build.html
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post #13 of 40 Old 12-11-2015, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChompenstein View Post
Yeah, that makes sense. That's why all those htib ported subs are boomy, there just inst enough room in the box for a port tuned low.

Which is the issue we have here, although still in MUCH better standing than htib type subs.

Good to know I got the WinISD part more or less correct.



4.0-4.5 @ 34hz seems like it is asking for trouble. In the graphs @LTD02 posted, just like what I saw on mine, the driver models beautifully through the 34hz region. Reinforcement from a port at that frequency will create a nasty jump in output. Output would maintain a +3db increase from 60hz down to 32hz with a +7db gain at port tuning. I have no idea where RE got those plans. Factor in room gain and that will be VERY boomy.

Is ported out of the picture? Kind of. It just becomes problematic trying to fit a large port in that small of a box. At 6" in diameter and like 3 feet long, it will be hard to position and it takes out another ~.5 cuft from your net volume (port volume doesn't count as box volume, it must be subtracted.) For this driver, and that box size, ported isn't ideal.

I wont rule it out, creativity abounds on this forum. I have seen stuff like external ports, that could be hidden behind a couch. Subs disguised as large ottomans (I believe LTD02 was actually the contributor of that post). You could change shapes to accommodate port, make the whole thing tall and skinny, or flatish

Ya im not sure where they came up with those figures but i know RE has been around for a long time..Its too bad ill have to ditch the ported design, I most likely will not be able to do any of the DIY projects you listed due to my configuration and set up at the house. But as you mentioned about being boomy, thats the last thing i want in the system, I want the woofer to transition smoothly.

Sealed is obviously easier to build and what not but you lose so many DB's Im hoping the 18 i pick up can pick up the slack, i have more space to work with where i want to put that.
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post #14 of 40 Old 12-11-2015, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
here is the driver in 4 cubic feet sealed, with 750 watts which sends the driver a little past xmax. the amp puts out somewhere around 60 volts per channel, but doesn't have quite the power supply to hold that in a lower impedance load, so this is roughly what you'll end up with, maybe a hair more.


Would you be able to model it in 2.5-3.0 cu.ft sealed? Reason i ask is thats what RE recommended when i emailed them, so i am just curious to see the results on paper with their recommendations. To me that seems to small, I like your 4.0 cu.ft recommendation more.

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post #15 of 40 Old 12-11-2015, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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After seeing the graph for the sealed cab im thinking about pulling a different woofer out of the closet to use...

I have a 12" sundown SA dual 4 ohm that i could use. This woofer is rated at 600rms as well but it is very underrated (can take 1100-1200rms all day). My hopes are i'lll have enough gross cubic feet to get this woofer into a ported cab. I will post up the T/S specs here shortly.

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post #16 of 40 Old 12-12-2015, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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post #17 of 40 Old 12-12-2015, 11:22 PM
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one possibility would be 3 cubic feet tuned to 25hz with a 12" x 2" slot port that is about 30" long.
it creates a little bump around 25hz, but with a 3rd order protective highpass, the bump gets smoothed away.
this is with 1200 watts. port velocity is a little high, but you are going to have that in a small ported cab.
driver excursion is within xmax even with this level of power. you could tune a little lower, but then port velocity goes up even more and/or cab gets exponentially larger.


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post #18 of 40 Old 12-13-2015, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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@LTD02 that is for the Sundown 12" correct? If so i really like the look of that, 3 cubes tuned to 25hz would be doable in my space requirements no problem.

I have a handful of aero ports from parts-express laying around from car audio builds in the past. (three 4 inchers, three 3 inchers, & three 2 inchers) I'd like to utilize some of these if possible. What size and length would i need to use for 3 cubic feet net, and 25hz tune?
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post #19 of 40 Old 12-13-2015, 09:16 PM
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yes, using the specs for the 12" d4 in the pdf.


for a 3 cubic foot cab:


2 x 4" ports would have to be about 30" long +/-

3 x 3" ports would have to be about 25" long +/-

the 4 inch ports have a little more flow area, so will perform just a hair better.

the reason that they may seem "long" is because the cab is so small.

if the cab were increased to 4 cubic feet, then the ports could be reduced to:


2 x 4" ports would have to be about 22" long +/-

3 x 3" ports would have to be about 18" long +/-


for the same 25hz target tuning.

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post #20 of 40 Old 12-14-2015, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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@LTD02 How would going to the 4 cu.ft. cab affect the response/graph? It would be nice to do that 4 cu.ft cab because it would allow for me to use shorter aero ports.

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post #21 of 40 Old 12-14-2015, 02:35 PM
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the 4 foot cab would just give a little bit more of bump around the tuning frequency. otherwise, the same output.
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post #22 of 40 Old 12-14-2015, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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4 cubic footer it is!! Sent you a PM @LTD02
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post #23 of 40 Old 12-15-2015, 06:55 AM
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4 cubic footer it is!! Sent you a PM @LTD02
interesting post..will have to follow this.

I have an RE SX12 V1 just sitting in my closet gathering dust..used to use it for car audio..I do remember it being a beast.

I often wondered how it would do in home theater...??
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post #24 of 40 Old 12-15-2015, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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@chadsmith013 The SX is a step up from the SE, very nice woofer!
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Relevant to my interests. I'm always curious to see folks using car audio subs inside, especially some of the more crazy ones they sell.
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@chadsmith013 The SX is a step up from the SE, very nice woofer!
and it always served me well in car audio...
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post #27 of 40 Old 12-17-2015, 06:28 AM
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Great subs to use for in the home. I had dual opposed sex12's off a ep4000 behringer bridged in the garage. Put these RE drivers for sale in the classifieds. The SEX/X/series are beefcake drivers that love excess power over the ratings.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #28 of 40 Old 12-17-2015, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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@autox320 That has to get down in the garage! How many cubic feet and what tuning is the enclosure? Do you have any pics of the setup in the garage?
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post #29 of 40 Old 12-18-2015, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNyellow787 View Post
@autox320 That has to get down in the garage! How many cubic feet and what tuning is the enclosure? Do you have any pics of the setup in the garage?
In order to fit under the workbench it was an elongated rectangle dual opposed sealed box. Just at 2 cubes, and 1.5" thick. I recently replaced these with a picowrecker (lilmikes design) TH sub using a single alpine 10sws. Probably build a second one just for fun. The TH pico doesn't have the massive low mud roll bass the RE's could make, but at high volume full output the TH little sub actually can get louder with believe it or not more output. Garage is over 10k cubes so lots to fill.

RE make nice beef drivers but I've them for sale right now. Storing them is a shame.

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post #30 of 40 Old 12-20-2015, 07:41 AM
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I have an re sex 10, solid little sub, love it.
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