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post #1 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Sub design for new basement

Longtime forum stalker, finally getting to the point in my basement finishing that I need to seriously consider the "theater"...FINALLY! The room will NOT be a dedicated theater, but I plan to have a 120" projector screen mounted on a wall with a NG fireplace in the corner about 6 feet away from the screen. I had already planned to build some custom built-in cabinets below the screen to house the electronics, but now I have talked myself into building subwoofer enclosures into that space as well. I'm looking for some input about design and driver selection at this point. The system will be used about 60/40 for movies & sports/music.

Plan as of now...Two subwoofers located on each side of the built in. Each "box" will be a ported martysub style integrated into the cabinet with acoustic grill cloth hiding the drivers/ports. I am thinking about using an Infinity 1262 in each box powered by an inuke1000 with dsp. Why 1262 you ask? Budget. The only size constraints I have is that I need the height to be around 18" and the width can be up to 24"...I have plenty of length to work with.

I'm dealing with a fairly large space (sketchup and a few pictures attached...excuse the clutter and blurred out children) and understand that my sound will suffer because of it. I am ok with this, but I want to get the best sound I can get at the lowest price possible. Doesn't everyone? The theater section is just under 3000 ft^3. The kitchen/bar/doorwall entry will take up another 4000 ft^3.
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 06:16 AM
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How much depth do you have to work with, or is that what you referred to as width of 24"?

It sounds like you could fit some 15" drivers in there, which could get you a lot more output compared to 12's.

Also, because I know someone will say it, your sub design will not actually be a "Marty" but rather simply a slot ported sub. It's only a Marty if it is one of the sizes listed in the Marty Sub FAQ and designed to be easily constructed from handy panels, but enough of that.

I think we can come up with some great designs for that space that will give you plenty of bass. You mentioned having a limited budget, but didn't specifically state one... any chance would could get a ball park figure so we don't throw $500+ dollar drivers and amp ideas at you.

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post #3 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Budget is a tough one...but I guess we need to start somewhere! Originally I had hoped to keep it under $350 for just the drivers and amp. I have to build the cabinet anyways, so I am not going to factor any of those costs in at all. Basically anything I can pick up at home depot can be disguised as building materials for the basement from the wife! However, I am willing to go up to $500 if the results will be significantly better. I'm not looking to shake the house off of the foundation, but rather a nice clean and wide ranging tone that I can crank up a little bit when the kids get older or go away for the night.

My apologies on the width=depth and the unauthorized use of the "marty" . Yes, when I said width I technically meant depth. The height (18") is fixed because I need the headroom for the screen, but the width and length are more flexible.
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 06:29 AM
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With 7000 cu ft, 12" subs will do practically nothing unless they are 6" from you. I would find a way to get at least two 18" subs in there or four 15"...
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post #5 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 07:11 AM
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I think your going to get some bass from these but after a few weeks your going to want to upgrade to something bigger or just want more of the 1262's. Your friends will be over a movie will be playing and your going to say to yourself I wish I had more bass in here. I have 8 subs in my room and I say it every time I watch a movie....It might be a better idea to start out with at least 2-15's or 2-18's. This might seem like huge subs at first but you would be surprised how much bass you need to fill the room without pushing subs to there limits.
My suggestion is buy the bigger subs now and the wood from HD build it and get the amp last. While your completing you HT room build out you can stash money to the side for the amp. If one is worried about the wife seeing the bill for the amp there's many ways around that.
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I'm hearing the advice loud and clear...I need more/bigger subs. What about sub placement? Is up front my only option if I do not want them sitting in the room? What about the possibility of an IB setup somewhere? My options/floor plan are still very open at this point. This won't be the case after I start putting up drywall! I'm not in a huge hurry to get this done...hoping to have the basement finished (without the kitchen) by mid-July. Time is on my side here so if I need to save up money and do it right, I will. Like I said, I just want to have a plan in place before I start drywalling.
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugoofbluem View Post
Ok I'm hearing the advice loud and clear...I need more/bigger subs. What about sub placement? Is up front my only option if I do not want them sitting in the room? What about the possibility of an IB setup somewhere? My options/floor plan are still very open at this point. This won't be the case after I start putting up drywall! I'm not in a huge hurry to get this done...hoping to have the basement finished (without the kitchen) by mid-July. Time is on my side here so if I need to save up money and do it right, I will. Like I said, I just want to have a plan in place before I start drywalling.
IB is definitely an option if you have the wall space and an adjacent room like a closet or storage area to wont be occupied when listening. IB doesn't require as much amp power either so you'll save a little there, although you'll want to use at least 4 drivers with 8 being even better. Do you have an overhead schematic type drawing of the basement so we could see if you have any placement options for IB.

The other option you have is to do 2 15's up front in ported enclosures then build some ported 15" end-tables or other furniture like an ottoman or side table. That way you are doubling the amount of subs, but no one would be the wiser. Lots of options available.

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post #8 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a rough sketch I just threw together at work (away from my sketchup files). Really my only IB possibilities would be to take away some space in my workout room adjacent to the theater or into the computer nook under the stairs. I don't know how suitable either of those locations would be as I read front and center would be ideal for the IB.
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post #9 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 09:42 AM
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From a budget perspective, I'd do the two up front as you mentioned, and then I'd build 4 more into a behind the couch table. The table could be downfiring to disguise it. If you did the 1262's they could all be run off of one inuke. Speakers would run about $300. Another $200-$300 for the amp and you're in pretty good shape spl wise and you'll get a good tactile response with the table being nearfield, and you're pretty close to budget. Obviously if budget were larger, you could do more, but I think that's the best way to meet your numbers.
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post #10 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Schacht View Post
From a budget perspective, I'd do the two up front as you mentioned, and then I'd build 4 more into a behind the couch table. The table could be downfiring to disguise it. If you did the 1262's they could all be run off of one inuke. Speakers would run about $300. Another $200-$300 for the amp and you're in pretty good shape spl wise and you'll get a good tactile response with the table being nearfield, and you're pretty close to budget. Obviously if budget were larger, you could do more, but I think that's the best way to meet your numbers.
Thanks, I think this is probably what I will do. I was already considering building some sort of bar height seating behind the couch for an additional set of seats and I can always incorporate it into that. In terms of hiding the wires, I can route the cables either through the wall or into the enclosures I will be building around the poles.

The beauty of doing this is that I can probably get away with two 15s up front powered by an inuke for phase one and just run conduit for a future phase 2 expansion of the nearfield subs behind the couch when I'm ready for more bass. Now the question is, which inuke would I go with?
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post #11 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ugoofbluem View Post
Now the question is, which inuke would I go with?
I think most will say that there is little reason not to go with the inuke3000dsp. The price difference is minimal, and it's better to have the juice and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

One thing to start thinking about now, is whether you want to go ported or sealed. Ported boxes are larger and produce more sound. Sealed boxes have the advantage of size. I would model your boxes now and create that plan for both sets of subs now so that you don't find yourself in the position of mixing sealed and ported. It's just easier if everything is the same. For what it's worth, my vote is for ported if you can make the dimensions work. Have you checked out the value buster 18 yet? Pretty cool budget friendly sub.They're 32x24x18.
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post #12 of 17 Old 12-18-2015, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Schacht View Post
I think most will say that there is little reason not to go with the inuke3000dsp. The price difference is minimal, and it's better to have the juice and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

One thing to start thinking about now, is whether you want to go ported or sealed. Ported boxes are larger and produce more sound. Sealed boxes have the advantage of size. I would model your boxes now and create that plan for both sets of subs now so that you don't find yourself in the position of mixing sealed and ported. It's just easier if everything is the same. For what it's worth, my vote is for ported if you can make the dimensions work. Have you checked out the value buster 18 yet? Pretty cool budget friendly sub.They're 32x24x18.
I don't have a huge problem with size, so I am definitely leaning towards a ported design. I will look into the value buster, and if the quoted size is right, it may work for my needs. I need to check my actual limits if I want to maintain a 120" image and have room for my center channel.

Thanks everyone for their help so far!
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post #13 of 17 Old 01-13-2016, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Altered VBSS?

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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
I think your going to get some bass from these but after a few weeks your going to want to upgrade to something bigger or just want more of the 1262's. Your friends will be over a movie will be playing and your going to say to yourself I wish I had more bass in here. I have 8 subs in my room and I say it every time I watch a movie....It might be a better idea to start out with at least 2-15's or 2-18's. This might seem like huge subs at first but you would be surprised how much bass you need to fill the room without pushing subs to there limits.
My suggestion is buy the bigger subs now and the wood from HD build it and get the amp last. While your completing you HT room build out you can stash money to the side for the amp. If one is worried about the wife seeing the bill for the amp there's many ways around that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Schacht View Post
I think most will say that there is little reason not to go with the inuke3000dsp. The price difference is minimal, and it's better to have the juice and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

One thing to start thinking about now, is whether you want to go ported or sealed. Ported boxes are larger and produce more sound. Sealed boxes have the advantage of size. I would model your boxes now and create that plan for both sets of subs now so that you don't find yourself in the position of mixing sealed and ported. It's just easier if everything is the same. For what it's worth, my vote is for ported if you can make the dimensions work. Have you checked out the value buster 18 yet? Pretty cool budget friendly sub.They're 32x24x18.
Ok well the two of you have convinced me to take a stab at two nu3000dsp powered VBSSs, but I want to tweak the dimensions to better suit my needs. As it is, I will need to lay the VBSS on its side, and shrink the "height" down to about 19" or lower if possible. I will keep the 20.5" depth the same and the length will be around 39.25" to get the same internal volume as the VBSS. The subwoofers will lay on their sides with some built in storage/seat height cabinets next to a corner fireplace with hearth seating. In order to keep the hearth seat height manageable, I think I need to keep it under 18-20". I've attached a quick sketch to help you see what I mean.

Do you think this is doable and a good enough start for my area?
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post #14 of 17 Old 01-13-2016, 10:51 AM
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Any chance at flipping it so the Suns are on the 20.5 side? That's not much room.


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post #15 of 17 Old 01-13-2016, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Any chance at flipping it so the Suns are on the 20.5 side? That's not much room.


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If I put the subs on that side I'd end up upfiring it (not even sure if this is possible with the PA460) with a projection screen above it. Other than that, I'm not opposed if it won't hurt performance.
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post #16 of 17 Old 01-13-2016, 11:36 AM
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Check out @cuzed2 he's building a VBSS like you. His ports are firing out the side of his box. If your going to put this behind a AT screen the ports of facing the screen will shake it like crazy. But as you said this will be by a fireplace. Check out how he did his. As long as the internal size of the box is the same I don't see any problems with the ports going out of the side of it or in front. Make it so it fits your needs. The only thing I'm not sure about is if the port needs to be a certain distance from the back of the box. You might want to ask Matt since this is his design.
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post #17 of 17 Old 01-13-2016, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Check out @cuzed2 he's building a VBSS like you. His ports are firing out the side of his box. If your going to put this behind a AT screen the ports of facing the screen will shake it like crazy. But as you said this will be by a fireplace. Check out how he did his. As long as the internal size of the box is the same I don't see any problems with the ports going out of the side of it or in front. Make it so it fits your needs. The only thing I'm not sure about is if the port needs to be a certain distance from the back of the box. You might want to ask Matt since this is his design.
Yeah, I read something about keeping the distance between the port and the rear, which is why I kept the 20.5" dimension...I know I'll be pushing the limits on the diameter of the sub, but I need to keep the size down or else I'll just be moving to ported 15s and won't be getting such a value.
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