Hybrib scoop/w bins - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 75 Old 01-14-2016, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hybrib scoop/w bins

Hi im planning a 3 way speaker so size is important as well as looks. I want to use a scoop system for my mids as they have better clarity and punch but they need to be BIG 😞 so i was planning on designing a hybrid scoop/w bin using 2x 6" pos 8" front facing mids with a scoop either side running vertically up sitting above a reflex double ported bin (size depends on mid size and bass output) and under 2x horns. I will not scrimp on drivers and want (if i can afford it) the best drivers out there. Now the scoops or w bins. In theory 2x 6" bins should have the same air space as a single 12" and im sure it will be just as loud and clear but will it have the same thud as a single 12"?? Ive not heard of any bass/mid bins using anything under 12" so im asking if any nerds can tell me if 2x 6" scoops would work? I can make it one box more square and deep to save on width and put both drivers in it or i can separate (put up a divider) . Plus the drivers ideally won't be below 100w 8ohm each!

Ps they will be for indoor arenas. Im also planning on build second left and right with a triple 2 ways with 3x 8" pos 10" scoops which will angle from middle towards back and will be higher up above heads. These will be room fillers and i will have proper subs and bass bin combos for bigger spaces and major gigs

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post #2 of 75 Old 01-14-2016, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed i said the scoops will be "either sids" and what i meant is both sides..... Basically a hog design shrunk down by half then mirror the design so the speaker is in the middle

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post #3 of 75 Old 01-14-2016, 11:25 PM
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post #4 of 75 Old 01-14-2016, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool ive msg them to if they can put in the right direction. Its seems no one has done this so i might be a pioneer and try it. May have to build my own cones. Cant seem to find high powered one cheap. Im thinking 200w each so 400w twin 6" w bin hybrid. And it will have cool looking wave forms and painted a stupid colour like u get on voids stasys 😊

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post #5 of 75 Old 01-14-2016, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I want them to look bad ass

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post #6 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 02:59 AM
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Designing speakers is harder than you think and filling an arena with sound needs a huge system.
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post #7 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:06 AM
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What are you referring to as scoops and bins? Is this for use in a PA setup? Honestly, unless you possess the skills to design your own crossover, then I would suggest going with an existing design such as one from Bill's site linked above.
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post #8 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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PA speakers. They will have to stay as small as i can get away with otherwise the whole speaker unit will be too big and heavy. The designing dosnt put me off as building a good speaker consists off maths and science. Get it right on paper then ur good to go.

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post #9 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The final design will depend on the drivers. Get the drivers wrong and ur speakers will sound crap. So many peeps build boxes then buy the drivers. This is a big no no! Drivers all work differently and designed to work in different box designs. Speakers also magnets that have different Q factors

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post #10 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
What are you referring to as scoops and bins? Is this for use in a PA setup? Honestly, unless you possess the skills to design your own crossover, then I would suggest going with an existing design such as one from Bill's site linked above.
http://speakerplans.com/images/superscoopd.jpg

Rear loaded horn = Scoop

You might call it the precursor to the more popular TH around these parts.
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post #11 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 11:35 AM
 
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Scoops/rear loaded folded horns are obsolete. They suffer from an unavoidable major response dip where the front and rear waves meet 180 degrees out of phase. A tapped bass horn is a variation of a rear loader, and the reason why they do work is that the pass band is restricted to those frequencies below where the response dip occurs.
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post #12 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I will say one thing void stasys 8 those things r the best kick bins u can get period! They r better then funktion 1. Ive heard 8 different void setups and a funktion 1 rig and the void blow them out the water and the void stasys 8 r rear loaded w bins with waveforming. Im swinging towards making rear loaded w bins cos ive heard the perfection that is void!

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post #13 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Voids were heavily used in boomtown fair uk. They used them for dub, garage, and d n b and dubstep so u may ask r they bassy then and the answer oh my god f yeah and the clarity is out of this world. So obsolete they r not just just need abit of vodoo and science which void proves

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post #14 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 12:02 PM
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Do you mean these -

http://www.cesevents.co.uk/audio-hire/5-void-stasys-8

They look to be FLHs not RLHs.

You might try the USB bin, that's what it reminded me of.
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post #15 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I meant the stasys X v2 sorry.

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post #16 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The 8 still is bad ass thou. I heard the whole stasys range and the both the 8 and X v2 r yeah.... Say no more

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post #17 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 12:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twigaroo.83 View Post
obsolete they r not just just need abit of vodoo and science which void proves
That's because they're not scoops/rear loaded folded horns. They are a refinement of the 1977 JBL 'Keele' folded horn.
http://www.readbag.com/speakerstore-...es-keele-w-box

There's no 'voodoo' in loudspeaker design, and for that matter precious little that's new.
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post #18 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Im thinking ofsomething like this (not to scale) it will have 2 smallers scoops instead of 1 big scoop with waveformers like u get on the voids. I know i wont get as much bass as they will be 6" but they will be my mid range. I can make up the lack of bass with my reflex bin. Clarity and punch in the mid range is important as im all about psytrance

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post #19 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Right i got confused i though rear is where the speaker is inside facing the back wall and front loaded is where the speakers face forward hahaha. The x v2 look very much front loaded too me. And im right in saying its a w bin the jbl say its a w bin which correct if im wrong is front loaded. I just got the front and rear wrong way round

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post #20 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok im thinking about scrapping the the twin rear loaded and making a usb with 2x 6" instead. It will look cool with those awsome stupid coloured waveformers in th
e middle of my 3 ways unless u guys think my orignal idea is best

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post #21 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:03 PM
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You have given no goals, size, driver info, how you are going to do a crossover... You have pretty much stated you want to build a frankenspeaker with no more info. What is the question and how can it be answered here without some more information?

I don't know what a usb with a 2x6" is, and have no idea what your small hybrib scoop w/bin voodoo 3-way arena speaker is or what it is supposed to do.

Unless you have designed a speaker before, this doesn't sound like the type of project to start with. Like previously stated, build a proven speaker that fits your performance goals. Leave the designing of a competent system up to the "nerds" as you stated.
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post #22 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Usb is a front loaded horn bass bin with a speaker on the left and right with the mouth in the centre. Now these bin usauly r big and have to be too work. Im trying to figure out if a compact version but with 2 bins stacked would pack a punch. Ive already stated that the bins will be purely mids. The rest of the design is irelivant at this given time as my focus is on how to size it down and still pack a punch

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post #23 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Google stasys 8 these r usb bins

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post #24 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:21 PM
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Alright so you want a midbass horn design. What frequency range are you looking to cover and at what spl levels?
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post #25 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure yet im still thinking if i should double the usb to 4x 6" making them more square. Like i said it the size issue im getting my head around.

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post #26 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So basically i will have 4 mids with a mouth in the middle sat on a reflex bin (size depends on mid bins) and horns for tops

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post #27 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:32 PM
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Low, loud, small. You can have any two you want.

You say "Indoor arenas." How many people are we talking about? What type of music? The type of music typically dictates what volume levels we're talking about.

I do some DJ work and live sound reinforcement. I built an all-BFM system. Four T48s and four OTop 12's, all with the premium driver. It's more than enough rig for 300+ people indoors and I run the whole thing off two amps. If you're looking for a PA system, I highly recommend the BFM forums. Some folks here (like me) have experience with DIY PA cabs, but most don't as this is a home-theater oriented website. The goals and usage of PA cabs is very different than HT cabs, especially in the subwoofer department. Example: My T48s will play down to 30Hz but it's safer to HP them at 35Hz, which is what I do. 35Hz is laughable for a HT subwoofer. You'll get more of the type of help you need over at the BFM forums.

That said, looks are nice but it's the performance you should be concerned about. What sort of DIY skills do you have, by the way? Have you ever built a speaker cabinet before? BFM cabs offer superior performance to any commercially-bought cab costing 2x as much or more, but they are much more than a simple box to build
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post #28 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Im looking at 100-300 psytrance so mids important and must have punch. I was planning 2x 6" hog design but with the speakers in the centre with the scoops down each side then i thought usb. But they already twin speaker so why not go for 4 6" mids. Am i mad? Art shouldnt stop at ur music so why not show it in some bad ass unique looking speaker.

Blame void its there fault hahaha. They have shown how a speaker can look as good as they sound

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post #29 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Plus im nicking void "waveformer" idea. They look cool in those awsome stupid colours.

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post #30 of 75 Old 01-15-2016, 03:41 PM
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Sounds like you're obsessed with how the speaker looks. You may be better off just buying something off the shelf that looks impressive. Those Cerwin-Vega folded horns look good.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Cerwin-V...=cerwin%20vega

But they look good...that's about it.
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