8x sealed Incriminator Audio Judge 21" build - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 613 Old 04-15-2016, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Luke it sounds like from the GTG that your Othorns are just ridiculous. I have got to make it up to hear these one day. If you ever think of selling please give me the first option.

Sorry man, but the line started forming a few years ago. By now you're in 4th or 5th place
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post #212 of 613 Old 04-23-2016, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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post #213 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Gosh I'm so freaking jealous of suspended floors!


Yesterday I was at my buddies place, the guy who bought my first DIY build (5400 + dual PR), and it's just not right...


If he plays anything around 15-20hz, even at low volumes of ~85db, his floor starts to shake. He has more tactile ULF at 85db than I do at 130+. DARN IT!!!!


/vent
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post #214 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 09:44 AM
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Do I really have to say it?

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post #215 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Gosh I'm so freaking jealous of suspended floors!


Yesterday I was at my buddies place, the guy who bought my first DIY build (5400 + dual PR), and it's just not right...


If he plays anything around 15-20hz, even at low volumes of ~85db, his floor starts to shake. He has more tactile ULF at 85db than I do at 130+. DARN IT!!!!


/vent
you need some crowsons
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post #216 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 11:32 AM
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post #217 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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post #218 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 12:06 PM
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haahahah...
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post #219 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 12:13 PM
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Relax it's only like $2500 or something.
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post #220 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 01:04 PM
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Something magical about a lot of tactile feel at lower volume. I'm shocked you don't have plenty with all those monsters!
Is your seating on a riser?
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post #221 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
Something magical about a lot of tactile feel at lower volume. I'm shocked you don't have plenty with all those monsters!
Is your seating on a riser?

The rear seating is on a riser, but it basically does nothing below 20hz.


I've been thinking about rebuilding it, and there are some good threads out there on that topic.
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post #222 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 02:14 PM
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Any nearfield subs? Would that help?
Are you saying there are risers designed to work with ULF?
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post #223 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
Any nearfield subs? Would that help?
Are you saying there are risers designed to work with ULF?

Not enough room for near-field subs, and yes, others have had some good success getting risers to react to ULF quite nicely.
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post #224 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 03:16 PM
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post #225 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 04:48 PM
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Seriously, shadow 8's plus an nu3000dsp to run a pair. get more if you need, one pair is great for my couch. run it with the 3k fan modded, limiter at 1kw and a bit of dynamic EQ. Amazing. It was like 1100-1200 or so for the transducers and the amps, if you order call in and mention avs discount, 10% off. I ended up adding extra rubber isolation feet to my order for the rest of my couch. Put it on a piece of ply since its on carpet and it made it even better.
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post #226 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 08:18 PM
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Luke, I feel your pain.

We were in a stick on slab construction townhouse on a concrete slab with ceramic tile floors...and I was running my dual SVS cylinders at 90% gain and 6 or so db hot and had almost zero tactile feel.
Now we are in a house with a basement and the living room HT with the same 2 subs is running below 40% gain and 0db on the AVR and I have tactile feel out the wazoo.
It makes me worried for the theater build in the basement...4 18s, 2 12s...
But I am planning for that contingency with floating sub floor and risers for both rows of seats...hope I don't fall into the same cycle you're in though...chasing it with ever bigger and badder subs. Hehe.
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I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
The Blank Slate Cinema/MacGillvray Pub Build Thread
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post #227 of 613 Old 04-25-2016, 10:19 PM
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@popalock

any latest updates? do you feel significant improvements in tactile feel from your riser with U-boats?
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post #228 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 02:19 AM
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@popalock

any latest updates? do you feel significant improvements in tactile feel from your riser with U-boats?
I did not have the opportunity to get very "scientific" with my testing. Too cumbersome to perform before and after testing. Plus I had one of my 24" subs firing directly into my back, which really detracted from the tactile sensation caused by the riser itself. Ultimately, the only thing I can conclude is that if you have nearfield, going through the trouble of trying to build a tuned riser is more of a trivial exercise (IMHO)...

Plus I don't think I got the U-Boat to weight ratio correct and ended up using way more than I should have, thus raising the resonance of the riser itself.

I'm still interested in trying out crowson's but have also been contemplating a hybrid Simonian sub riser approach as well. I don't think I would want some 18's firing directly into my butt. That said, since I've already experienced subs firing directly into my back and as fun as that is, I want to try something with max tactile effect from the floor (riser) with all of the bass coming from the various subs around the room.

Dammit...I don't know what I really want...lol
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post #229 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 03:39 AM
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Arggggg!!!!!
Good grief Charlie Brown. LOL
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post #230 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Luke are you using version 2.5 from measuring center software lab. I just tried to download it and I'm getting a weird message.

Are you referring to Spectrum Lab? I think I'm using v2.8 or v2.9?
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post #231 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 08:10 AM
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Not very familiar with risers but are they usually hollow or solid inside?
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post #232 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 08:18 AM
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I'm still interested in trying out crowson's but have also been contemplating a hybrid Simonian sub riser approach as well. I don't think I would want some 18's firing directly into my butt. That said, since I've already experienced subs firing directly into my back and as fun as that is, I want to try something with max tactile effect from the floor (riser) with all of the bass coming from the various subs around the room.

Dammit...I don't know what I really want...lol
Haha! Why not?

Really, it's no different than what every one else is doing and having their 18's (or whatever) firing into their backs. If anything, I get a more realistic "jiggle" to the really, really low stuff. Definitely works and only becomes 'too much' if the level is way up. I'm sure any TT would be just as annoying and they can be.

In my case, it was just the logical choice to use that available volume (the riser) for the two extra subs I had laying around. The approach is pretty elegant but not the best for every situation. Case in point, Luke's room. He doesn't have the ceiling height to accommodate the size of a riser like mine which is about a 1ft tall. Something like a Crowson is perfect for a system like his.

Luke, if you can, get yourself a demo of an HT system with Crowson actuators and find out for yourself.
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post #233 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Not very familiar with risers but are they usually hollow or solid inside?

Both.


Some are filled with sand to be completely rock solid, while others are hollow.


Mine has a 2x6 frame for the perimeter, but only 2x4s across the center. I did that intentionally so it had room to resonate, but since most of the vibration is from 20-25hz and 50-60hz that I need to add some mass to lower it's resonate frequency.
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post #234 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 08:53 AM
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Was wondering wouldn't it be better to have it hollow and add mass to the enclosure rather than inside with sand/stuffing. Heck subs have vibrating problems and we take great effort to brace it.

Maybe someone just needs to build a large ported couch with no bracing... HPF @ 10 and LPF @ 40. Maybe someone could make it with large dual pipe ports that exits on either side of one's head... That has gotta be 4D.
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post #235 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Haha! Why not?

Really, it's no different than what every one else is doing and having their 18's (or whatever) firing into their backs. If anything, I get a more realistic "jiggle" to the really, really low stuff. Definitely works and only becomes 'too much' if the level is way up. I'm sure any TT would be just as annoying and they can be.

In my case, it was just the logical choice to use that available volume (the riser) for the two extra subs I had laying around. The approach is pretty elegant but not the best for every situation. Case in point, Luke's room. He doesn't have the ceiling height to accommodate the size of a riser like mine which is about a 1ft tall. Something like a Crowson is perfect for a system like his.

Luke, if you can, get yourself a demo of an HT system with Crowson actuators and find out for yourself.
Even with my current riser, which is only 6" tall, a few of my buddies only have about 1.5" of head clearance under my soffits. It's so close that they instinctively duck when walking back there


I know a few around me have buttkicker brand transducers, but I've never been particularly impressed with those. Too "artificial"?


If I find anyone with Crowsons I'll definitely get a demo. The only downside is that I have 3 recliners (7 seats total), so that'd be $3k to get them for all the seating plus an amp(s).
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post #236 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 09:03 AM
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Just get two and put them at the prime seat for yourself. Everybody else can get what they get and they are lucky to get that, imho. It's your room.



Yeah. Not a huge fan of the BK's. Except for one time, I always disliked them. I really liked it at @Luke Kamp 's room. Hit up @carp as he has a set of Crowson's and nearfield subs on his prime seat and a riser for the back row.
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post #237 of 613 Old 04-26-2016, 09:56 AM
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I agree with Scott, get them for your seat. You can always add more for guests later, but they would have 8 21" sealed subs at home if they cared as much about low bass as you.

Can always remove half or even all of the 2x4's or replace with 2x2's. Could also add buttkicker feet to riser. If height that tight could cut into wood where placed. Only need to protrude past base of riser more than they will compress under full load. Just throwing out some other ways to lower resonance besides adding weight. Need to experiment as I haven't seen klippel testing of risers yet.
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post #238 of 613 Old 04-29-2016, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Next time @Rowan611 is over we'll see if he can tell the difference between these two settings:

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post #239 of 613 Old 04-29-2016, 12:10 PM
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I like an audio test.

Typed on a tiny keyboard, excuse any grammatical errors.
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HT: Oppo UHD-203 | Crown Amps | NX3000D | NX6000D | 1299s | Volt 8s | THTs | Crowson Shadow 8s | BOSS riser | Panamax 5300PM | LG OLED 65B6P
Family: Denon AVR-S740 | PSB Alpha AVs | Sony X900F | X1
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post #240 of 613 Old 04-29-2016, 12:11 PM
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Wow! @lukeamdman your build looks incredible, though I had to take another look because I originally thought you were using the FTW-21 subwoofers. Though I read why. Though I'm glad you finally got the whole setup going!


I really have to ask though, can your surrounds even keep up with the mains or LFE?
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