LmidgitD Dual Dayton Sonotube Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 31 Old 03-05-2016, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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LmidgitD Dual Dayton Sonotube Build

Good evening gents

Due to a bit of craigslisting, I've come into 2 Dayton RSS460-HO 18" subs and an iNuke6000 (w/o DSP).

After some modeling in WinISD and Sonosub, the following build is my plan.

Tuning frequency - 11.16Hz
Power per sub - 465Watts
Volume - 654L (60"x28"x28")
Port length - 38Inches
Vent diameter - 8Inches w/flare
Number of subs - 2

Results (per individual sonotube)
Maximum SPL at 11.1Hz - 112.8dB
Maximum cone excursion - 20mm (DataBass claims the 460HO to have a usable xmax of around 20mm, xmech of 30mm)
Port air velocity - 78ft/s

Opinions - I realize that these two will not hit reference levels. I never listen to my system that loud. I listen to 95% movies in a 16'x20'x8' room. Currently I have a definitive technologies powerfrield 18" sub that gets more than loud enough, but not deep enough.

If anyone would like to talk me out of this for being unreasonable, now is the time. I will be calling around Monday for sonotube. Secondly, I've heard that a high pass filter is not needed on a LLT with a low enough tune. Since the iNuke starts rolling off below 20Hz should I even worry about buying a miniDSP? Or should I get a DSP, radio shack meter and REW and tune these beasts when they are completed?

Below is my parts list that I believe I need:
12'x28" sonotube
3/4" MDF
T-nuts
12ga wire
2 pairs of banana jacks
2 pairs of banana plugs
8" sonotube for port
8" port flare
Egg crate foam
Weather stripping gasket
PL475 adhesive
100% silicone
Deck screws
Feet spikes
Speaker grill cloth ( To cover sonotube?)



Oh and to get it out of the way... There is absolutely, positively no WAF approval needed.

Edit: I'll update the pictures when I get a chance. I cannot rotate the pictures or screenshot the moment.
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post #2 of 31 Old 03-05-2016, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I've decided a high pass filter is good insurance, and I'll be able to run REW with a dsp so it's now on the list.

2016-03-06
Sonotube ordered. It will be shipped to menards by the end of March. And yes, I measured my doorways at 32". That will give me the ability to have 1" of overhang for the end caps.

2016-03-07
Ordered the following items (qty not included)

Dayton Audio DSS2-G Gold Speaker Spike Set 4 Pcs.
Part # 240-666

Neutrik NL2MP Speakon Connector 2 Pole Panel Mount
Part # 092-059

Wired Home SKRL-12-50 12 AWG OFC Speaker Wire 50 ft.
Part # 100-024

Neutrik NL2FX Speakon Connector 2 Pole Cable Mount
Part # 092-198

RCA Patch Cable 3 ft. Gold Plated
Part # 240-025

XLR Male to RCA Female Adapter
Part # 240-438

Tripp Lite TLP1008TELTV 10 Outlet Surge Suppressor
Part # 125-052

Parts Express Cast Frame #10-32 Speaker Mounting Kit
Part # 260-776

Parts Express #8 x 1/2" Self-Tapping Truss Head Screws 100 Pcs.
Part # 081-460

MiniDSP 2x4

Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for iPhone, iPad Tablet and Android

I will need to pick up mdf, dowels, and cloth to cover the sonotube. I have r-13 to damp the resonant frequencies.
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post #4 of 31 Old 03-06-2016, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 31 Old 03-09-2016, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm planning on buying a cheap used Denon receiver tomorrow in order to power 4 Dayton tactile transducers. My thought is to run the lfe signal from my primary receiver to the 2x4 miniDSP. From there, 2 signals will go to the iNuke6000 and two signals will go to the right/theft channel of the secondary receiver that will power the transducers. I hope I don't run into a low signal voltage issue to either the iNuke or 2nd receiver. I'm not sure if the miniDSP splits the input signal for the output signals.
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post #6 of 31 Old 03-09-2016, 06:59 PM
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Nice start. I'm not sure if that mic works with REW. Most folks but the umm6 or umik1.
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post #7 of 31 Old 03-09-2016, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Nice start. I'm not sure if that mic works with REW. Most folks but the umm6 or umik1.
Thanks for the heads up. I was worried about that as well, but there's several reviewers in the product page that say that they have used REW and "audio RTA" with success. If it works then perhaps this could be an alternative to the radioshack meter that I couldn't find locally.
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post #8 of 31 Old 03-11-2016, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Expanded my project a bit.

-Picked up a used Denon avr687 for $30.
-8 dayton 8ohm tactile transducers.

I will be using 1 of the unused miniDSP channels as a crossover for the transducers. The receiver will power 4 transducers on each L/R channel. Since the receiver it's rated at 75W/8ohm load and the transducers are rated at 15w rms/30w max, I should not fear of overdriving the transducers.

Now the hangup is waiting for the sonotube to arrive at the end of the month. I plan on wiring the cables and playing around with the MiniDSP that arrived today.

Final note for now, I'm also thinking of running my existing definitive technologies powerfield 18" to fill the 14-20Hz gap caused by the sonotubes' 11Hz tuning. This will use all 4 channels of the MiniDSP, and it could help smooth the room response as well.

Also I changed the tuning to 11.7hz with a 39" port. I lose 0.5Hz tuning but I'll gain 2dB down low. With the transducers I don't think I'll miss much.

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post #9 of 31 Old 03-12-2016, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Fans and microphone arrived today.

Performed the iNuke fan mod.

Installing REW later. We'll see if the mic works. Surprisingly it came with a calibration file.

Question for the diy gurus regarding port length: is the port length measured to the outside box dimension or the inside box dimension. The difference due to the 2 3/4" sheets of mdf would be 1.5", which is why I ask.
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post #10 of 31 Old 03-12-2016, 06:43 PM
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Check out the link in my sig to the Austin Jerry guide. You'll be rockin REW in no time.
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post #12 of 31 Old 03-13-2016, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading that thread. There's a lot of information. Thanks for the link!

There's so much more to diy. I love it.
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post #13 of 31 Old 03-13-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmidgitd View Post
Fans and microphone arrived today.

Performed the iNuke fan mod.

Installing REW later. We'll see if the mic works. Surprisingly it came with a calibration file.

Question for the diy gurus regarding port length: is the port length measured to the outside box dimension or the inside box dimension. The difference due to the 2 3/4" sheets of mdf would be 1.5", which is why I ask.
How much was the sonotube and what size? Im thinking of building one.
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It's not the cheapest option, but it's super strong and light. Lots of LLT subs end up being 300lbs of MDF!!
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post #15 of 31 Old 03-13-2016, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray727 View Post
How much was the sonotube and what size? Im thinking of building one.
I had both sonotubes shipped to menards for free. Ended up paying $140.
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-14-2016, 05:35 PM
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Delighted to see a LLT sonotube beast is still an option/solution for some. Best wishes with the build, I predict and hope you will be very happy with the sound.
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post #17 of 31 Old 03-15-2016, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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8 tactile transducers installed and mostly wired up. Tomorrow I'll hopefully have time to set them up through the MiniDSP.
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post #18 of 31 Old 03-22-2016, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Sonotube and mdf is officially at the house!
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post #19 of 31 Old 03-23-2016, 03:17 AM
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Those 28" tubes look huge! I'm planning on building 24" tubes as I have floor space limitations. How thick are the walls of your bigger sonotubes?
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-23-2016, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Pretty thin actually, probably around 1/8" thick. I'll check once I get home later tonight. Hopefully I'll get some work done on them today.
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post #21 of 31 Old 03-23-2016, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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So I was wrong. The wall thickness is 3/8".

Question for the sonotube gurus, how long should I make the dowel legs? They are 1-3/4" in diameter. I could make 5 per sonotube at 4.75" if that would give enough space for the subwoofer to breathe.

Also after playing with the sonotube program, it looks as if I need to make the ports 48" long for a 10.8Hz tune.

Build update: the sonotube were cut to 71.5" and 72.5". Menards kinda goofed cutting them in half so I lost 0.5" on both after evening out the lengths. Picked up a router, bits, and a long ruler that I'm going to tru and make a circle jig from.

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post #22 of 31 Old 03-24-2016, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmidgitd View Post
Question for the sonotube gurus, how long should I make the dowel legs? They are 1-3/4" in diameter. I could make 5 per sonotube at 4.75" if that would give enough space for the subwoofer to breathe.
Anything over 4" would be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmidgitd View Post
Build update: the sonotube were cut to 71.5" and 72.5". Menards kinda goofed cutting them in half so I lost 0.5" on both after evening out the lengths.
That isn't enough to matter, so don't sweat it.

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post #23 of 31 Old 03-26-2016, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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All the caps are cut. 2 are glueing overnight. Mattress toppers are glued in the sonotubes. Nothing more can be done until the end caps are glued. Progress!
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post #24 of 31 Old 03-28-2016, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Pictures of my weekend. I started laying down the fabric on the sonotubes last night, however I ran out of spray adhesive.

A trick for those who don't want to spend money on a circle jig, use an old drawer bottom! I mounted the router to the sheet of hardwood (pic attached) and measured the distances that I needed. It worked like a charm.

Steps needed yet:
-Paint endcaps+base
-Install T-nuts
-Wire speakon cable and mount connector
-Install driver endcaps
-Base dowels
-Driver installation
-Install base
-Sub crawl
-EQ
-Jam out
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post #25 of 31 Old 03-30-2016, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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All surfaces covered/painted. T-nuts and speakon connectors installed and glued. Base dowels are just about ready (glued threaded rod into them last night). One issue that I ran into was that one endcap was 1/8 out of tolerance for the sonotube. Tonight I will sand that down to size.

Also, the Cleanbox Pro was modified today for lowering the high pass filter. A trace was lifted during the process, so a new wire was ran. No worries.

One subwoofer could possibly be playing tonight, depending on how everything else goes today.
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post #26 of 31 Old 04-03-2016, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The main build is finished. When I was looking at previous builds I always wanted to read the builder's opinion in detail so I will do that as well.

Honestly the subs are less visually intrusive then I'd thought they'd be. I'd build them again in a heartbeat. Now on to the fun part. We watch movies at -20dB. The first movie we watched was Tryon Legacy with only one sub running at 40%. The suspend wood floor provides unreal tactile feedback to the point that my roommate exclaimed that putting his phone on vibrate is now going to be useless. It honestly feels like the flying airships are in the room with you. I sat through the movie with a big, cheesy grin on my face, and I was occasionally laughing at the sheer joy that these subs bring me.

On to last night, my roommate arranged a movie night with 6 of our friends. We watched a couple demo scenes, ( finding nemo which brought laughs from all, war of the worlds) to which the female visitors were looking to their men and explaining that "No! You are not allowed to even think about building one for our house!" After the demo scenes we decided to watch Mad Max. We had to keep an eye on our drinks due to them wanting to walk away. The women sat on the couch with the transducers on. At one point 2 of them jumped up with a shocked look on their face. Haha. Everyone loved the movie but had endless things to say about the sound. Essentially the point was made that now they will be disappointed with going to a movie theater now that they know how much sound they will miss.

Lastly, after a few drinks and egging on, they convinced me ( the women too!) to find the limit of the subs with a 10-200Hz sweep. So I started the sweep at reference volume. These subs are authoritative starting right at 10Hz and only become more powerful with increasing frequency. I could only imagine what 10Hz sounded like before building these, but to actually experience it is a truly unreal experience. Despite the floor feeling like it was moving 1/2" and everyone giggling and laughing, I turned the inuke6000 up a couple more clicks. Now the ceiling fans are swaying, the fireplace draft was making interesting sounds, something on the shared garage wall decided to hit the ground. So what's a man to do other than turn it up a bit more? 2 more clicks. 2nd limiter light still not blinking. The floor is now making the transducers a moot point ( as if they weren't already). I have never heard sound that low, sound that loud, sound that scary. Due to the amount of shaking of the ceiling fans I did not turn up the inuke again, despite further prodding from my mates.

In conclusion, diy is the way to go. I can not be more thrilled with how the project turned out. When I purchase my next house I will keep these until I can go with an infinite baffle array. Not because these do not impress, but because I want single digit response. However that will be expensive since my components roll off at 10Hz at the moment so they will need replacing.
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post #27 of 31 Old 04-03-2016, 04:49 PM
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Checkout the vibsensor thread, it's be great to get your numbers on the board. My setup gets me to .2 g's others are up to .5 g's of shake or moaaaar!
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Nice job, glad you're happy with your work!

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #30 of 31 Old 05-09-2016, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Well after over a month I've decided to up the tune to 13.5hz. This will net an additional 10dB's below 20hz according to winISD. Perhaps if I had these in a dedicated room that wasn't open to the rest of the house then they would work. Plus it seems that I have some signal chain roll off starting around 12hz which is robbing me of the benefits of a 10.7hz tune. The ports were cut down to 25" yesterday. Hopefully tonight I can adjust the high pass filter, and then tune them with REW. At 10hz I could feel "something" but it was more novelty than anything. Around 14hz the subs really opened up ( kind that was the weak point according to winISD) and then they really have great tactile feedback. A 13hz tune should allow a very fun house curve.

P.S. I did have a chuckle to myself as I crawled INSIDE the subs to cut down the ports.
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