Can you help me choose a subwoofer style? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By Wrager
  • 1 Post By asarose247
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Can you help me choose a subwoofer style?

Hi good folks. Long-time lurker, part-time poster. I'm building a dedicated HT and I need a subwoofer, and I plan on building one. I want to work with what I have to avoid spending cubic dollars on a subwoofer. Here's what I have:
Mains: Magnepan MMG
Rear: Magnepan MMGW
Center: Magnepan MMGC
Pioneer Elite SC05 HT Receiver
Two Audiosource THX-certified 125 or 150 watt monoblocks for the subs.
What I have laying around for the subs are two 10" MTX poly-cone drivers. Yeah I know. I just wanted to list them.
One 12: Cerwin Vega, no known specs, not planning on using it.
What I plan on using though are two Infinity Kappa Perfect 10.1 drivers.
The sub(s) will be in a 12'X16' room dedicated to the purpose.
My question is, what cabinet style do I want. I love the idea of a t-line because they are different, but also because, from what I read they are very clean and reach low. But I can't find any calculators out there and I'm not going to build 5 cabinets just trying to get it right, as many suggest.
I'm kind of leaning toward a tapped horn with the Infinity drivers.
One other area of concern is that the subs will have to reach up pretty high as the Maggies don't really do much below 80 hz, even though they are listed to go to 50 Hz.


TLDR: I'm looking for the holy grail haha. I'd like the sub to span from the 20s to 80Hz or so. WAF isn't an issue here so size isn't terribly important.

What say you?
DrBoost is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 10:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,298
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 1056
.02

get winisd, iirc, and give it a whirl

as for 10's in subs, if memory serves me well, look up "wolfhorn"

as a fervent reader and, yes, I did drink the Kool-Aid, the common "uncommon" mindset for room that size is going to immediately jump to a pair of 18's and an inuke 3ooodsp,

of recent excitement, the VBSS builds, highly cost effective and great ROI for woofage . . .matches your expectations


some may suggest selling the kappa's

HTH

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 10:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,321
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1792 Post(s)
Liked: 1483
TLs are just vastly oversized boxes with little performance advantage over ported.
THs require the design experience you don't have from the questions you're asking.
<150W for a sub is underpowered.

Sell what you don't need, eg the old drivers and the amps, and build a couple of Martys or similar driven by an iNuke or other poweramp. DSP is required, either internal to the amp, or external like a MiniDSP.
A9X-308 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 10:52 AM
 
witchdoctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,342
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoost View Post
Hi good folks. Long-time lurker, part-time poster. I'm building a dedicated HT and I need a subwoofer, and I plan on building one. I want to work with what I have to avoid spending cubic dollars on a subwoofer. Here's what I have:
Mains: Magnepan MMG
Rear: Magnepan MMGW
Center: Magnepan MMGC
Pioneer Elite SC05 HT Receiver
Two Audiosource THX-certified 125 or 150 watt monoblocks for the subs.
What I have laying around for the subs are two 10" MTX poly-cone drivers. Yeah I know. I just wanted to list them.
One 12: Cerwin Vega, no known specs, not planning on using it.
What I plan on using though are two Infinity Kappa Perfect 10.1 drivers.
The sub(s) will be in a 12'X16' room dedicated to the purpose.
My question is, what cabinet style do I want. I love the idea of a t-line because they are different, but also because, from what I read they are very clean and reach low. But I can't find any calculators out there and I'm not going to build 5 cabinets just trying to get it right, as many suggest.
I'm kind of leaning toward a tapped horn with the Infinity drivers.
One other area of concern is that the subs will have to reach up pretty high as the Maggies don't really do much below 80 hz, even though they are listed to go to 50 Hz.


TLDR: I'm looking for the holy grail haha. I'd like the sub to span from the 20s to 80Hz or so. WAF isn't an issue here so size isn't terribly important.

What say you?
Try and get good subs two rather than blowing all your budget on one monster sub
witchdoctor is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 12:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wrager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 1,804
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 178
A couple of PicoWreckers would work fine. The design work is done and it's an easy build. It uses a cheap Alpine 10" driver. In a small space 150 wpch will be fine.
witchdoctor likes this.
Wrager is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I just sat down for a second to see if I had any input. Thanks!! I'll look into those suggestions in a bit! Thank you all!
DrBoost is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 01:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 5,560
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 587 Post(s)
Liked: 540
I say start cheap and upgrade later. With limited amp power, ported would be ideal but may be more difficult to model - do you have specs on all the drivers to plug in and play with? Also, with limited amp power the efficiency of multiple cones would be beneficial, so I'd keep all 5 drivers.

Easiest is sealed boxes, which could be limited to 3, one for each driver type, two each having a pair in the box and one with the single 12" CV. Put each one in may 2 cu ft, spread around room, hopefully EQ to smooth.

Bigus is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 01:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 5,560
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 587 Post(s)
Liked: 540
Oh, and you could upgrade amp first when the funds are there, and be ready for an upgrade of the sub drivers later.

Bigus is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 01:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
chadamir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 60
How loud do you listen?
chadamir is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I don't listen terribly loud, the family protests. Now, when nobody else is home, I'll crank it to 11.....for a few minutes. I only have specs for the Kappas, I'm not even sure of what model the MTXs are (I think Road Thunder from 20+ years ago). The Vega is unknown as well, but it's a better driver, at least larger VC and stiffer surround.
I like the idea of multiple subs for various reasons, but I don't think I have the room for multiples.

I'm going to look at the options you folks mentioned above. Maybe selling everything and buying one kit would be a good idea.

Thanks again for you input everyone. Maybe I should do a build thread for my theater....but I'm afraid I'll be laughed out of town due the low-buck nature of it.
DrBoost is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 03:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
chadamir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoost View Post
I don't listen terribly loud, the family protests. Now, when nobody else is home, I'll crank it to 11.....for a few minutes. I only have specs for the Kappas, I'm not even sure of what model the MTXs are (I think Road Thunder from 20+ years ago). The Vega is unknown as well, but it's a better driver, at least larger VC and stiffer surround.
I like the idea of multiple subs for various reasons, but I don't think I have the room for multiples.

I'm going to look at the options you folks mentioned above. Maybe selling everything and buying one kit would be a good idea.

Thanks again for you input everyone. Maybe I should do a build thread for my theater....but I'm afraid I'll be laughed out of town due the low-buck nature of it.
Horns get really loud but they also are really big. You're not playing your Maggies at reference I'm guessing. You may only need a couple of sealed with an inuke.
chadamir is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 03:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,298
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 1056
everybody here gets an equal start wrt how YOU want YOUR stuff, assets, time, and powerbase to come together for YOU

and then things can change while you're at it,
life is what happens while you're making other plans . . .

so don't be shy


OTOH go peruse the builds/plans etc. at the Bill Fitzmaurice site, plenty of BFOB and 150 w amps totally adequate, maybe even for turning it up to 12, occasionally

this is supposed to be FUN!
Wrager likes this.

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
.02


of recent excitement, the VBSS builds, highly cost effective and great ROI for woofage . . .matches your expectations


some may suggest selling the kappa's

HTH
What is a VBSS build?
DrBoost is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 03:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,298
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 1056
^ try the search box, using VBSS

@mtg90 in the original thread has done some impressive "engineering" and well written documentation wrt to a good sub design that "only" uses a <$100 driver

plan on building 2, everybody will agree to that

maybe an Inuke1000dsp is enough to get you to 11 every now and then, others may have other input wrt that suggestion,

but you'll have impressive woofage . . . and very high ROI

and check the builds by @cuzed2 , very nice work . .

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 03:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,731
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1221 Post(s)
Liked: 901
Build two Picowreckers. I modeled those infinty kappa 10.1s in the Pico and they are almost identical to the sundown. If you don't want to buy anything new and you're comfortable building a tapped horn (which isn't very hard), then this is gonna be your best option.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...cowrecker.html


The dark black line is the infinity and the lighter gray line is the sundown.





Spl with 150 watts

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pico with kappa 10.1.JPG
Views:	396
Size:	34.2 KB
ID:	1305817   Click image for larger version

Name:	max spl with 150 watts.JPG
Views:	399
Size:	32.7 KB
ID:	1305825  

Last edited by Samps; 03-10-2016 at 03:49 PM.
Samps is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Thanks Samps. I just got done reading the PW thread, then you go and post that. I appreciate you running the numbers for me. I'm on a mac so I don't have access to WinISD or HornResp at the moment.

You guys (and girls?) are really helpful. Thanks a ton! I'll let you know what I decide when I do, and I'll do a build thread of my HT and sub.
DrBoost is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Ok, I feel foolish. My google-foo (applied to this forum specifically) is failing me. I now know what a VBSS is, but I can't find any plans.
DrBoost is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 03-10-2016, 06:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 375
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 60
If you are going to use a variety of drivers with unknown specs.
Go sealed and eq as needed. Sealed is very forgiving in terms of design.
Spend some time doing a sub crawl to determine the best location for the subs in your room. A great sub in the wrong spot with sound awful. Subs are very location sensitive.
jake515 is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 03-11-2016, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake515 View Post
If you are going to use a variety of drivers with unknown specs.
Go sealed and eq as needed. Sealed is very forgiving in terms of design.
Spend some time doing a sub crawl to determine the best location for the subs in your room. A great sub in the wrong spot with sound awful. Subs are very location sensitive.
Thanks Jake. I'm not going to use the Vega or MTX drivers. I'm going to build the Picowreckers, two of them, unless this VBSS sub is more compelling. And I do plan on doing a sub crawl to get the best placement.
DrBoost is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 03-14-2016, 06:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 375
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoost View Post
Thanks Jake. I'm not going to use the Vega or MTX drivers. I'm going to build the Picowreckers, two of them, unless this VBSS sub is more compelling. And I do plan on doing a sub crawl to get the best placement.
You will find going to a DIY solution will be very rewarding.
The VBSS cabinet will be much easier to construct than the Picowreckers.
If you have the tools and skills go for the Picos!

Start think about digital eq. To get great in room response you will to take some measurements and enter in some corrections.
I know I am not the only one that hooked up a Mega sub system and then was under whelmed by the sound.
Room placement and nulls suck the fun out.
jake515 is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 03-18-2016, 09:17 PM
Newbie
 
MindlessCorpse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoost View Post
I don't listen terribly loud, the family protests. Now, when nobody else is home, I'll crank it to 11.....for a few minutes. I only have specs for the Kappas, I'm not even sure of what model the MTXs are (I think Road Thunder from 20+ years ago). The Vega is unknown as well, but it's a better driver, at least larger VC and stiffer surround.
I like the idea of multiple subs for various reasons, but I don't think I have the room for multiples.

I'm going to look at the options you folks mentioned above. Maybe selling everything and buying one kit would be a good idea.

Thanks again for you input everyone. Maybe I should do a build thread for my theater....but I'm afraid I'll be laughed out of town due the low-buck nature of it.
I won't laugh. I want it all but can hardly spend more than a minimum on it any more. I would be interested in reading and learning from your experimenting around.

Panasonic SMART VIERA 60" Class GT50 Series Full HD 3D Plasma HDTV/TC-P60GT50
Panasonic 3D Blu Ray DVD player
Pioneer Elite SC-05 AVR
2 x Polk Audio TSX550T front channels/2 x Polk Audio Monitor70 Series II rear channels
1 x Polk Audio CS2 center /2 x Polk Audio PSW505 Subwoofer
XBOX 360 (MindlessCorpse)
MindlessCorpse is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 03-19-2016, 08:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wlhungdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 266
I'll second (or is it third?) the opinion that you wont be laughed at. Very good people here. Whatever you choose to share could very well help someone else , and that is , IMO, the very spirit of this DIY forum.

Besides, if anyone does, that's what the 'ignore' button is for.

Joseph

mods, can we have a 'dislike' button ?
wlhungdude is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 03-23-2016, 12:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoost View Post
Thanks Samps. I just got done reading the PW thread, then you go and post that. I appreciate you running the numbers for me. I'm on a mac so I don't have access to WinISD or HornResp at the moment.

You guys (and girls?) are really helpful. Thanks a ton! I'll let you know what I decide when I do, and I'll do a build thread of my HT and sub.
If you are on a Mac, but would still like to run WinISD Pro, try crossover
https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac
It lets you run a lot of different Windows software titles without a copy of Windows.
Its how I run WinISD. Watch the code weavers website, every couple of months they have a promo deal on crossover.

Standard disclaimer, I do not work for Codeweavers or Apple, but I do own a Mac and use WinISD. Hope this will help.
darknite9099 is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 06-05-2016, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DrBoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Somehow i missed your post darknite. I'll check that out.
Well, the theater is 99+% done. It's up and running. The Picowrecker is astounding! Maybe I'll do a build thread of the theater, showing how to do something on the cheap.
DrBoost is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off