Building The Cerberus - 3 "wrecker" tapped horn subwoofer build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Building The Cerberus - 3 "wrecker" tapped horn subwoofer build with pics

Over the past few years I have been trying to figure out some unique ways to get some quality bass in our wide open floor plan home theater. The craziest idea was to loft half the ceiling and then place some lilwreckers up in the attic firing into the room. I have migrated away from that idea after looking at the extreme cost of such a project as well as the addition of more air space to pressurize and add sound treatment to.
I currently have a 30 inch wide Tuba HT in the home theater, and it just doesn’t pressurize this room like it did in our last home. I have sought out some options that would be aesthetically pleasing and/or easy to hide. The solution for me that I liked the best was to place 1 lilwrecker loaded with an FI Q15 in my garage firing through the wall into the living room and place 2 picowreckers loaded with alpine swsd4’s in my front stage area with my QSC KW122 LCR. The Tuba HT will be for sale once these projects are done.
My good friend Tyler has a nice wood shop and generously offered up his time and expertise in this endeavor. I am grateful for having such a kind and generous friend! I am thankful for lilmike for his designs and dedication.
I have an Inuke 6000 DSP that will be powering these monsters.
I will be adding more details to this thread as I think of them and have more build updates to share.
Hopefully you will enjoy the building of this imposing three headed monster that I will call my CERBERUS subwoofer build.
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Here we are getting going on the lilwrecker build. We got confused about the labeling of some of the flares in the instructions vs the panel dimensions list, but we just reverted to the layout dimensions and figured things out.
We did the basic bracing, nothing too pretty, I think it broke Tyler's (the wood worker friend) heart to make such ugly bracing, but no one will see the bracing once everything's closed up!









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post #3 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The lilwrecker gets closer to wrecking the house!


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post #4 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
the extreme cost of such a project as well as the addition of more air space to pressurize and add sound treatment to.
Yep.
...and air condition/heat/insulate as well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
I have sought out some options that would be aesthetically pleasing and/or easy to hide.
You are aware that you can refold existing horn designs into different shapes and get the exact same performance? (So long as the dimensions and lengths of the sections remain unchanged.)



So if a different fold looks better and works better for your room layout, go for it.

That's basically what I did with my HzHorn. I took the GHorn which was really wide and stubby (too much for my room layout) and made a vertical-standing taller-narrow version of it.

I actually reduced the number of 90 degree turns the sound has to travel in half, 14 down to 7, which probably helps a tiny bit for SQ and efficiency.

You can de-fold the horn (if it helps you...)
It is a lot of extra work though as you have to make your own blue-print and cut-sheet.

Last edited by BassThatHz; 03-16-2016 at 10:45 AM.
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Yep.
...and air condition/heat/insulate as well!



You are aware that you can refold existing horn designs into different shape and get the exact same performance? (So long as the dimensions and lengths of the sections remain unchanged.)

So if a different fold looks better and works better for your room layout, go for it.

That's basically what I did with my HzHorn. I took the GHorn which was really wide and stubby (too much for my room layout) and made a vertical-standing taller-narrow version of it.

I actually reduced the number of 90 degree turns the sound has to travel in half, 14 down to 7, which probably helps a tiny bit for SQ and efficiency.

You can de-fold the horn (if it helps you...)
It is a lot of extra work though as you have to make your own blue-print and cut-sheet.
I hear you, I could mess around with refolding a design, but I am more attracted to the tried and true designs that don't involve precious design time.
I'm hoping that I get the extreme bass that I'm looking for with these three tapped horns.
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-16-2016, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
I'm hoping that I get the extreme bass that I'm looking for with these three tapped horns.
You probably will get louder. Just going from 1 cone to 3 cones and increasing the power by 3-6kW will add up to ~9db... that's assuming the subs are identical and placed near each other.

When they have different room placements and box tunings and efficiencies and phase, and placed in a bigger room, calculating the potential SPL gain is no longer a simple math task.

...that said, I can't see how it "couldn't" be louder by (at least) 6db or so...

As for folding, if someone had the attic space I could envision a long horn up there with very-few 90 bends. (It would be almost-ideal, as far as horns go...)
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-19-2016, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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In taking some measurements around the room I don't see how it couldn't be an awesome amount of bass with the lilwrecker and two picowreckers. Turns out the spot (the only spot possible) that the THT is sitting in currently is the least optimal for bass response at the main listening position.
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post #10 of 26 Old 03-21-2016, 03:45 PM
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So the Fi Q15 does fit in this horn?

I remember a while back that it was going to be close but thats all I heard. So do you have one built yet?
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-22-2016, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
So the Fi Q15 does fit in this horn?

I remember a while back that it was going to be close but thats all I heard. So do you have one built yet?
The FI Q15 easily fits.
Made some big strides towards finishing tonight (see added pic in the second post) should finish the assembly this Friday if all goes to plan.
Then of course comes the painting, mounting woofer, wiring, and mounting in wall.
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-24-2016, 08:44 AM
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Would be good if you could take close measurements to show the q15 high inductance in the LilWrecker.
I'm going to build 1 of these, and am hesitant to use the 500w Alpine SWS15D considering chilot has already pounded his into submission...but this Q15 driver is almost 3x more $, with the CVX even more expensive now.
Willing to spend the extra 200 on a driver that will handle the beating if it doesn't adversely affect the FR.

Thanks
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-24-2016, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Would be good if you could take close measurements to show the q15 high inductance in the LilWrecker.
I'm going to build 1 of these, and am hesitant to use the 500w Alpine SWS15D considering chilot has already pounded his into submission...but this Q15 driver is almost 3x more $, with the CVX even more expensive now.
Willing to spend the extra 200 on a driver that will handle the beating if it doesn't adversely affect the FR.

Thanks
You're more than welcome to come and measure, I'm sorry that I can't do it for you since I don't have anything but a sound meter and test tones.
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-24-2016, 10:34 AM
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You using the SPL meter through REW with a Cal file?
If not, my mistake, I thought you said you were measuring the LW.
Where do you live?
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-24-2016, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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All I have is a radio Shack digital spl meter.
I was measuring to make sure my placement of the lilwrecker and picowreckers would be optimal with the spl meter.
I'm in the Twin Cities (MN)
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-24-2016, 10:42 AM
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Twin Cities is a little far for me, as I live 20 South of Boston!
Good Luck, at least we can get your impressions on it.

Thanks
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-30-2016, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Twin Cities is a little far for me, as I live 20 South of Boston!
Good Luck, at least we can get your impressions on it.

Thanks
That would be a bit far too drive!

We are getting really close to finishing the structure of the lilwrecker!
I've added new pics to the second post showing where we are at currently with the build.
Please let me know if anything doesn't look right. If everything goes as planned we'll be closing things up tonight! Then I'll be painting, wiring, and mounting the FI Q15 driver.
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-30-2016, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
That would be a bit far too drive!

We are getting really close to finishing the structure of the lilwrecker!
I've added new pics to the second post showing where we are at currently with the build.
Please let me know if anything doesn't look right. If everything goes as planned we'll be closing things up tonight! Then I'll be painting, wiring, and mounting the FI Q15 driver.
OK, it's TONIGHT!

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-31-2016, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, it's TONIGHT!

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
We got it all buttoned up last night, I attached new pictures to the second post.
I'm gonna install the last brace in the mouth after I can test mount the woofer and measure clearances.
Next step is to scrape off the excess PL and use a flush router bit on the hang over of the final panel.
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-31-2016, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
All I have is a radio Shack digital spl meter.
I was measuring to make sure my placement of the lilwrecker and picowreckers would be optimal with the spl meter.
I'm in the Twin Cities (MN)
There is a correction chart on the internet for that meter. I have one also. I think around 40 hz its was off as much as 3 db.
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post #21 of 26 Old 03-31-2016, 02:34 PM
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found it...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post...ion-table.html

Radio shack digital SPL meter

Frequency - Meter Read - Correction - True spl

20 - 85 - 7.5 - 92.5
25 - 85 - 5.0 - 90.0
31 - 85 - 3.0 - 88.0
40 - 85 - 2.5 - 87.5
50 - 85 - 1.5 - 86.5
63 - 85 - 1.5 - 86.5
80 - 85 - 1.5 - 86.5
100 - 85 - 2.0 - 87.0
125 - 85 - 0.5 - 85.5
160 - 85 - (-0.5) - 84.5
200 - 85 - (-0.5) - 84.5
250 - 85 - 0.5 - 85.5
315 - 85 - (-0.5) - 84.5
400 - 85 - 0.0 - 85.0
500 - 85 - (-0.5) - 84.5
630 - 85 - 0.0 - 85.0
800 - 85 - 0.0 - 85.0
1k - 85 - 0.0 - 85.0
1.25k - 85 - 0.0 - 85.0
1.6k - 85 - (-0.5) - 84.5
2k - 85 - (-1.5) - 83.5
2.5k - 85 - (-1.5) - 83.5
3.15k - 85 - (-1.5) - 83.5
4k - 85 - (-2.0) - 83.0
5k - 85 - (-2.0) - 83.0
6.3k - 85 - (-2.0) - 83.0
8k - 85 - (-2.0) - 83.0
10k - 85 - (-1.0) - 84.0
12.5k - 85 - 0.5 - 85.5
16k - 85 - 0.0 - 85.0
20k - 85 - 1.0 - 86.0







http://www.stereophile.com/content/r...ponse-graphs-1

Hz Correction
10 20.5
12.5 16.5
16 11.5
20 7.5
25 5
31.5 3
40 2.5
50 1.5
63 1.5
80 1.5
100 2
125 0.5
160 -0.5
200 -0.5
250 0.5
315 -0.5
400 0
500 -0.5
630 0
800 0
1000 0
1250 0
1600 -0.5
2000 -1.5
2500 -1.5
3150 -1.5
4000 -2
5000 -2
6300 -2
8000 -2
10000 -1
12500 0.5
16000 0
20000 1
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Last edited by stingray727; 03-31-2016 at 02:45 PM.
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post #22 of 26 Old 04-18-2016, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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So we tore up the wall in the garage only to find a major structural beam running right through the area we were going to slide the lilwrecker in to. So we will be placing the lilwrecker in a temporary location until we find a permanent spot for it. Sometimes the best plans are foiled...
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post #23 of 26 Old 04-18-2016, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
So we tore up the wall in the garage only to find a major structural beam running right through the area we were going to slide the lilwrecker in to. So we will be placing the lilwrecker in a temporary location until we find a permanent spot for it. Sometimes the best plans are foiled...
Sounds like a load bearing wall unless your installing it in the ceiling? Can you move it over the next stud since its a garage. Whats on the other side that stops you if you moved it over.
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post #24 of 26 Old 04-18-2016, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like a load bearing wall unless your installing it in the ceiling? Can you move it over the next stud since its a garage. Whats on the other side that stops you if you moved it over.
It's a beam that runs horizontally in the wall, no way to get around it unfortunately. I'll figure something out. I might be returning to an attic placement?
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Turn it upside down or mount it sideways in the middle of the wall.
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post #26 of 26 Old 04-20-2016, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Sounds like a load bearing wall unless your installing it in the ceiling? Can you move it over the next stud since its a garage. Whats on the other side that stops you if you moved it over.
There's a closet that keeps us from getting creative with placement.

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Turn it upside down or mount it sideways in the middle of the wall.
Can't turn it sideways, hard to explain, but it would hit the garage door track. I'll have to get creative with some other options.
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