Is there a 1" compression driver that gets to 900hz nicely? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 6Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 04:25 AM
Member
 
EarlK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto, Ont.
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 37






Last edited by EarlK; 03-26-2016 at 05:13 AM.
EarlK is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 08:38 AM
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 29,681
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 2727
900hz is pushing a DNA360 or DE250.

Mine starts to crap it's pants. The distortion shoots up. Practicality had me at 935hz with it. You can go a bit lower if you need less SPL, or if your horn will provide some loading to help out.

DE550 would be my suggestion, although I never tried it, I am interested. I was asking Tux in email if he used it, I am still looking for someone who has or any real world feedback on it.

You could check out JBL D2, it can handle 900hz, extends up to 40khz with a very clean top and generally low distortion. You just have to use an appropriate horn for it, which might be limiting. I think JBL has some pro audio and studio monitor horns available that match it as replacement parts.

If you don't want to change horns the DE250 /DE500 and DE550 are somewhat proven and affordable IMO. The bigger will match up to the 15" 2226 a little better, if you want to beat on it. Otherwise add a mid.
Mfusick is offline  
post #33 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 09:19 AM
Senior Member
 
rajacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 31
The Denovo Audio BA-750 compression driver is an unusual compression driver to say the least. While testing this model and different diaphragms, one audio forum member designated it the Big A** compression driver, and the name stuck. And at over twice the size and weight of the DNA-360......it holds that title well. Very few 1" high frequency drivers can handle a crossover point around 700hz. But with it's 2" voice coil and high power handling, the BA can.


Impedance: 8 Ohms

SPL: 110db 1W/1m

135 watt power handling

Frequency response: 650hz-19,500 Hz

Recommended crossover of 700 kHz or above depending on waveguide

Ferrite magnet

2" voice coil

Coated titanium diaphragm

Last edited by rajacat; 03-26-2016 at 09:20 AM. Reason: change
rajacat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 11:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 918
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post
Intuitively, I would tend to agree.......but even in DIY we DIY because someone told us how to do it based on their efforts or experience which can still leave room for experiment.
Fully agree, there.

But my experience is different than yours, I'm still waiting to hear a direct radiator system that has the detail and timbre of a Synergy horn or full range ESL

___________________________________________
DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet Synergy horn spreadsheet and pdf
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator XSim install file
Easy and cheap sound diffusers (the "Depot Diffusers") making easy DIY depot sound diffuser-panels-step by step.html
SmallSyns - point source controlled directivity in a manageable size SmallSyns
bwaslo is offline  
post #35 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 12:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 75
What is diaphragm size of teh BA-750? What is the surround material made of? I like the coated Ti part.
augerpro is offline  
post #36 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Face2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 355 Post(s)
Liked: 216
More importantly, what horn are you using?
Face2 is offline  
post #37 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 02:21 PM
Senior Member
 
rajacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 31
[QUOTE=augerpro;42717810]What is diaphragm size of teh BA-750? What is the surround material made of? I like the coated Ti part.[/QUOT

1" Click on the link.
rajacat is offline  
post #38 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 02:23 PM
Senior Member
 
rajacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by face2 View Post
more importantly, what horn are you using?
seos 18
rajacat is offline  
post #39 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 02:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 75
rajacat> I'm not sure what you were trying to link to? I assume the diaphragm is the same size as the voice coil, but I don't see anything about surround material at the website.
augerpro is offline  
post #40 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 02:54 PM
Senior Member
 
rajacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
rajacat> I'm not sure what you were trying to link to? I assume the diaphragm is the same size as the voice coil, but I don't see anything about surround material at the website.
2" voice coil, 1" diaphragm. Go back to the link. It says 1". I should know because I own a pair. I'm not sure what you mean by the surround material. The BA750 weighs in at a hefty 10 lbs. each.
Frequency response: 650hz-19,500 Hz
rajacat is offline  
post #41 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 03:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 75
hmmm, no link for me
augerpro is offline  
post #42 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 03:14 PM
Senior Member
 
rajacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
hmmm, no link for me

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/compres...rs/ba-750.html
rajacat is offline  
post #43 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 03:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 596 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
Liked: 1613
The BA-750 exit is 1" in diameter, the diaphragm is the same diameter as the voice coil of 2". I forget what the surround is on that one it's been a while since I took one apart on Erich's dining room table. I need to get one from him because I would like to experiment with that driver in a few designs.

As for the DNA-360/DE250, I have the older DNA-350's in my budget V2 synergy horns and at one point had them crossed at 950hz with a fairly shallow slope of only 2nd order electrical and they handled it just fine even at extreme levels. However that horn does provide a bit more loading then the SEOS-12 or 15.
mtg90 is offline  
post #44 of 50 Old 03-26-2016, 03:44 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,300
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3816 Post(s)
Liked: 3771
2452h-sl and 2453h-sl($290) do quite well in the lower and upper frequency ranges. 1.5" exit, 4" diaphragm
notnyt is offline  
post #45 of 50 Old 03-27-2016, 11:50 AM
Senior Member
 
rajacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The BA-750 exit is 1" in diameter, the diaphragm is the same diameter as the voice coil of 2". I forget what the surround is on that one it's been a while since I took one apart on Erich's dining room table. I need to get one from him because I would like to experiment with that driver in a few designs.

.
Ah, I see, the diaphragm is the same diameter as the voice coil. If you are going to experiment with the BA, it would be interesting to hear it with a beryllium phragm. Do you known if the BA is a clone or a close copy of some other CD? Is the phragm available somewhere in Be as a stock replacement part?

Last edited by rajacat; 03-27-2016 at 05:22 PM.
rajacat is offline  
post #46 of 50 Old 03-27-2016, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
900hz is pushing a DNA360 or DE250.

Mine starts to crap it's pants. The distortion shoots up. Practicality had me at 935hz with it. You can go a bit lower if you need less SPL, or if your horn will provide some loading to help out.

DE550 would be my suggestion, although I never tried it, I am interested. I was asking Tux in email if he used it, I am still looking for someone who has or any real world feedback on it.

You could check out JBL D2, it can handle 900hz, extends up to 40khz with a very clean top and generally low distortion. You just have to use an appropriate horn for it, which might be limiting. I think JBL has some pro audio and studio monitor horns available that match it as replacement parts.

If you don't want to change horns the DE250 /DE500 and DE550 are somewhat proven and affordable IMO. The bigger will match up to the 15" 2226 a little better, if you want to beat on it. Otherwise add a mid.
I'm really torn as to which way to proceed!

The BMS 4550 seems like a viable candidate on the SEOS 15 guide for a match to the 2226. Wayne Parnham has a Pi design with the 2226 and the DE250 as well.

......and then there's the three way with an 8" midrange option

......or a 12" midrange with a 12" SEOS
mayhem13 is offline  
post #47 of 50 Old 03-28-2016, 10:39 AM
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 29,681
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 2727
The DE 250 and DNA 360 are almost the same thing. Lots of designs using both. The horn is the difference. If you use a SEOS15 the DNA360 does work well on it, there is a few designs that have done them.

Matt G has a 2226 with DNA360 design I think. He also did the FUSION 15 with it (different woofer but also 15") I used an AE TD15 with mine.

Assuming your woofer and design is ok around 900hz to cross to a SEOS15 you should be fine. Since SEOS15 is only 15" it's going to give up pattern any lower anyways... so no point in using a bigger tweeter if the horn can't.

The horn will only pattern control waves who's size is smaller than the horn, not bigger.

The DE500 was used by Geddes, and many other designs. Some good info on that around. Between the SEOS stuff, the Pi stuff, the Geddes stuff, you should find the info you need I think.

At the end of the day just buy some stuff you think will work, start measuring it. If you are getting your SEOS from DIY group they might get you a tweet to go with it.. worth asking Erich.

Personally when I choose to use the SEOS15 and DNA-360 it was partly because I saw others who had already used it and validated it works.

I like you wish I could squeeze a bit lower XO but it is what it is.
Mfusick is offline  
post #48 of 50 Old 03-29-2016, 02:33 PM
Member
 
majestik6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post
I really think a 2" driver is in order but they all pretty much suck above 10khz. The useful limit of my JBL 2226s are 900hz.
To my ears, the response of the BMS 4550 is a little rough in the SH50. You can see it in the response graphs.

IMHO, the B&C DE250 sounds different, not certain if it sounds "better." Each one has it's strengths.

If it were me, I'd just build a Synergy Horn using a 3/4" dome tweeter and four 2" midranges. That will cover 900hz-20,000hz with ease.

If that complexity is too high, put a SB Acoustics SB65 on a waveguide; that will ALSO cover 900hz-20,000hz with ease, it just won't be as loud as the Synergy Horn.

In my current project, I am going with the latter. I have also tried the former and it sounds good too. IMHO both options sound better than the DE250 or the 4550.
majestik6 is offline  
post #49 of 50 Old 03-29-2016, 02:41 PM
Member
 
majestik6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post
Intuitively, I would tend to agree.......but even in DIY we DIY because someone told us how to do it based on their efforts or experience which can still leave room for experiment.

The midrange tap has its advantage in its band pass .......and also it's limitations in its band pass. And for me, I just can't get around some real world experience with the SQ of direct radiators such as Scanspeak and SEAS and how all that midrange detail and timbre would remain when passing through a compression chamber and slot port? For all the power handling and output level advantages of horn loaded systems, when compared to direct radiators at normal listening levels and suitable amplification, the direct radiator system wins every time for me.

Now I bring this because we seem to be within an era where there are some direct radiators that are capable of extreme output with low distortion allowing them to compete with compression devices. Case in point is the Fountek ribbons. When used properly such as in my case above 3.5khz, I've yet to experience a HF device that surpasses it.........but in lies the limitation as the upper midrange driver to match must be small and therefor power and output limited. Now I see this SBAcoustics dome that can do 1khz at 110 db with distortion levels equal and better than compression devices. Things are improving IMO if you know what to look for.
I'm with Bill on this one. The midrange chambers improve many, many things:

1) they improve the polar response
2) they lower the distortion
3) if you set it up right, they raise the efficiency
4) which raises headroom
5) which raises overall output

At this point I use them all across the board, on everything but my tweeters. My midbasses are bandpass, my midranges are bandpass.
majestik6 is offline  
post #50 of 50 Old 04-04-2016, 09:26 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 22,912
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2021 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post
If it were me, I'd just build a Synergy Horn using a 3/4" dome tweeter and four 2" midranges. That will cover 900hz-20,000hz with ease.
Very interesting.

What freq would the XO be between the mids and tweeter, and what would the box dimensions be?

Noah
noah katz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off