4645C Clone in Aus. Figures not working out? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 01:08 AM
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Well 25m/s or under should be fine. You can always tweak the vent size more if you feel you need a lower speed but 25m/s and under I think will be just fine. Will this only be used up to 150hz?

This port size has about a 650hz resonance. So up to around 300hz Xo should be ok. But it becomes a balancing act also.

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post #32 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Well 25m/s or under should be fine. You can always tweak the vent size more if you feel you need a lower speed but 25m/s and under I think will be just fine. Will this only be used up to 150hz?

This port size has about a 650hz resonance. So up to around 300hz Xo should be ok. But it becomes a balancing act also.
Sounds good. Thanks mate. Yes it will probably be crossed at 80 or 100hz to the 3677's.

I can't wait to get this going! Do you know of any other guys in Aus that have gone to pro cinema speakers?
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post #33 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 01:36 AM
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I know a few that have used them and many other things in their quest for audio bliss. I might try an M2 clone down the road. myself. JandS are the local dealers for most JBL things and they are just too dear to try everything I want to do from JBL
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post #34 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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You've got that right. My wallet is crying now... but the rest of me is super excited!
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post #35 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
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Checking the air velocity in WinISD with the 5.9" (150mm) diameter port.

With a HPF 4thO BW at 20hz, no EQ and keeping keeping power down so cone excursion stays under the 9mm Xmax (allows me 300W max before going over Xmax at 19Hz), I am getting a max velocity of 23.4 m/s peak.

Not ideal, especially after I add 3dB boost @ 25Hz as planned and lower power to 200W (to limit it to under Xmax) I am getting a 26.6m/s peak.

Thoughts?
I don't think you will hear the port noise. It will be drowned out by the sound of a screaming wife and/or the sound of stuff crashing to the floor after getting knocked off the walls
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post #36 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think you will hear the port noise. It will be drowned out by the sound of a screaming wife and/or the sound of stuff crashing to the floor after getting knocked off the walls
Haha! I'll make sure I fix everything securely before checking whether I can hear the port chuffing at 20hz in WOTW. 😀
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post #37 of 92 Old 04-07-2016, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Something came today...
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post #38 of 92 Old 04-08-2016, 03:01 PM
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Great to see the driver arrived, you are in for a treat (in my obviously biased view). I am looking to clone a JBL Pro three way, in the early reverse engineering stage now. Will use the 2242 from the 4645B's for the LF (will be putting 2269's in the enclosure for the subs).

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post #39 of 92 Old 04-08-2016, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice! I'm not familiar with the 2269. What is that out of? 2242 for the woofers would be amazing. They work well fairly high up too I read.
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post #40 of 92 Old 04-09-2016, 01:24 AM
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Very popular driver that JBL uses in many of their subwoofer alignments.



Nice 18" with about 19mm Xmax.

I had five linked pictures but they didnt show up. 5628 is a nice cinema sub also that uses the 2269 driver.

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post #41 of 92 Old 04-09-2016, 05:35 AM
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The new Sub-18 that is designed to pair with the M2'same also uses the same driver. It gives more output down low than the 2242.


Posting a link to the Engineering Data Sheets for a wide range of JBL drivers, including the 2242 and 2269.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...er-Information


The 2242 is a great driver, that is why it will be to woofer in my three ways when I get to actually building them (will be awhile, they are my retirement from the Navy present to myself- hit the 20 yr time point in Sept 2018, retire from navy Oct 2018).

I plan on buying at least two more 4645's. They are really what I have been looking for. I realize I am missing the ULF, but it's just not as important to me as the 20 to 100 Hz range. Crazy, I was chasing the single digits for quite awhile and one day I just asked why.
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post #42 of 92 Old 04-10-2016, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
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The new Sub-18 that is designed to pair with the M2'same also uses the same driver. It gives more output down low than the 2242.


Posting a link to the Engineering Data Sheets for a wide range of JBL drivers, including the 2242 and 2269.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...er-Information


The 2242 is a great driver, that is why it will be to woofer in my three ways when I get to actually building them (will be awhile, they are my retirement from the Navy present to myself- hit the 20 yr time point in Sept 2018, retire from navy Oct 2018).

I plan on buying at least two more 4645's. They are really what I have been looking for. I realize I am missing the ULF, but it's just not as important to me as the 20 to 100 Hz range. Crazy, I was chasing the single digits for quite awhile and one day I just asked why.
Which of the JBL three ways are you going to be cloning? What cd and horns are you planning to use, and are you going to try and source an original JBL crossover for this or are you going to design a new one from scratch? Not trying to hijack this thread, so you can PM me if you want. The reason that I ask is because I have always wanted to clone their 3732 just never had the balls to actually do it.

Oh and thanks for your service!
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post #43 of 92 Old 04-10-2016, 05:48 AM
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Which of the JBL three ways are you going to be cloning? What cd and horns are you planning to use, and are you going to try and source an original JBL crossover for this or are you going to design a new one from scratch? Not trying to hijack this thread, so you can PM me if you want. The reason that I ask is because I have always wanted to clone their 3732 just never had the balls to actually do it.

Oh and thanks for your service!
Thanks....

I will start a thread soon for a sounding board to solicite feedback. Right now looking at the VP7315 ($7,970 MRSP) as the model. Would update the CD as the original is getting rather expensive and has been supplanted in at least one product by the 2453H-SL.

The subs in this thread would pair excellently with the design.

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post #44 of 92 Old 04-11-2016, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Very popular driver that JBL uses in many of their subwoofer alignments.


Nice 18" with about 19mm Xmax.

I had five linked pictures but they didnt show up. 5628 is a nice cinema sub also that uses the 2269 driver.
Nice. Wow 19mm Xmax? Looks like a beast too! There's always something bigger and better isn't there...



Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
The new Sub-18 that is designed to pair with the M2'same also uses the same driver. It gives more output down low than the 2242.


Posting a link to the Engineering Data Sheets for a wide range of JBL drivers, including the 2242 and 2269.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...er-Information


The 2242 is a great driver, that is why it will be to woofer in my three ways when I get to actually building them (will be awhile, they are my retirement from the Navy present to myself- hit the 20 yr time point in Sept 2018, retire from navy Oct 2018).

I plan on buying at least two more 4645's. They are really what I have been looking for. I realize I am missing the ULF, but it's just not as important to me as the 20 to 100 Hz range. Crazy, I was chasing the single digits for quite awhile and one day I just asked why.
Thanks for the link. I know what you mean about chasing digits. At the moment my quest is for full blown impact and that's it.
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post #45 of 92 Old 04-12-2016, 02:44 AM
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Thanks....

I will start a thread soon for a sounding board to solicite feedback. Right now looking at the VP7315 ($7,970 MRSP) as the model. Would update the CD as the original is getting rather expensive and has been supplanted in at least one product by the 2453H-SL.

The subs in this thread would pair excellently with the design.
Never heard of the VP7315? Is this part of JBL's Cinemina lineup? How would this thing sound in a medium sized room compared to the 3732?
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post #46 of 92 Old 04-12-2016, 05:03 AM
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VP = Venue Performance, they are part of their installation line, highly regarded in the pro sound world for sound quality. The driver quality is much higher than those used in the 3732, same level as the 5732.

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post #47 of 92 Old 04-12-2016, 05:54 PM
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c'mon. do it justice. :-)


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post #48 of 92 Old 04-13-2016, 02:36 AM
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VP = Venue Performance, they are part of their installation line, highly regarded in the pro sound world for sound quality. The driver quality is much higher than those used in the 3732, same level as the 5732.
What model horns are you planning to use? That 2452 or 2453 JBL compression driver looks nice, but at $1,000.00+ for each one, that is a bit heavy. Can they be found cheaper than that? What makes them so expensive? You can get a Radian 950BePB for around the same price!
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post #49 of 92 Old 04-13-2016, 06:03 AM
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c'mon. do it justice. :-)


WOW LTD when you see a photo like this they really come into size. And to think my Hybrid design was much bigger than this . Dont know why but I really love the look of this subwoofer from JBL.
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post #50 of 92 Old 04-13-2016, 01:01 PM
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What model horns are you planning to use? That 2452 or 2453 JBL compression driver looks nice, but at $1,000.00+ for each one, that is a bit heavy. Can they be found cheaper than that? What makes them so expensive? You can get a Radian 950BePB for around the same price!
For the VP design clone I would use the PT-K64MH (JBL Pro Parts 338784-003: WAVEGUIDE) as the speaker uses a basic XO between the HF and MG drivers. Would run active for bass (+ add DSP for the MH's).

I have also been looking at the Cinema line, in particular the 4722 waveguide (with the 2453H-SL driver (JBL Pro Parts 5004613X)) + 3720 mid horn (with the 2169H mid driver (JBL Pro Parts 339111-001X) from the 5732) + 2242 driver. Much cheaper than cloning the VP. Has the driver quality of the higher end JBL cinema products, without the dual midranges which add cost for no real need in a home. Heck, it's all matter of overkill really athink this point.

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post #51 of 92 Old 04-13-2016, 01:03 PM
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c'mon. do it justice. :-)


Oh yeah....that's a wicked sub (assuming you are not going for single digits). I want 4 of them.

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post #52 of 92 Old 04-16-2016, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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c'mon. do it justice. :-)


Haha! Now that's a sub! My goodness!
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post #53 of 92 Old 04-16-2016, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
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So I had some time today...
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post #54 of 92 Old 04-16-2016, 05:55 AM
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Looking good! I am still half alseep, when I first looked the thumbnail image with the weights looked like a crossover (on a phone and the images are small). I was thinking, what the heck....you don't need an XO in a sub. Maybe I should go back to bed.

I can't wait to read your impressions.

Are you going to use a round over bit on the port exit? I know the standard JBL doesn't have one. I am not sure how big the round over has to be to actually increase port performance- I am guessing pretty substantial.

I live these big JBL-based builds. Great to have a sub that doesn't need 1.21 gigawatts.

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Looking good! I am still half alseep, when I first looked the thumbnail image with the weights looked like a crossover (on a phone and the images are small). I was thinking, what the heck....you don't need an XO in a sub. Maybe I should go back to bed.

I can't wait to read your impressions.

Are you going to use a round over bit on the port exit? I know the standard JBL doesn't have one. I am not sure how big the round over has to be to actually increase port performance- I am guessing pretty substantial.

I live these big JBL-based builds. Great to have a sub that doesn't need 1.21 gigawatts.
Haha. Yeh no not a crossover. I used 18mm MDF since that is what I had on hand. The 4645C uses 19mm MDF or particle board I think, and 25mm front & rear panels. So to upsize the front baffle to match, I had some 6mm MDF lying around which I glued to the back of the front baffle bringing it to 24mm. Rear baffle still 18mm. Internal bracing is the same as the 4645C. I might add some more, though it is probably unnecesary considering JBL didnt.

I cut the 6mm mdf to the outer diameter of the pvc before gluing it on. Once that dried I used so Selleys Allfix glue to glue the port in. (Not sure whether I should add some strengthening or if the glue will be enough.) I then flush trimmed the front baffle port cutout to the inner diameter of the pvc.

Then whacked it all together and came to gasp at its shear size & mighty prescence.

Now to paint her, fix in the driver & fire her up...
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post #56 of 92 Old 04-17-2016, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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So here are two pics of the insides of a 4645C as posted by @mantha3 in his diyaudio thread:




And here are some internal pics of my box to show the bracing. I made the front to back brace slightly wider to increase rigidity of the baffle close to the driver, and I also made put in a side to side cross-brace attached to the front-back brace as well. I was thinking about adding another long brace along the back behind the driver near the terminal cup hole. Not sure if I will bother though since JBL didn't...





I was just going to use some pillow stuffing material to line the insides of the box around the walls of the driver area as per the 4645C, and just because it is cheap and readily available. Any thoughts on this?
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post #57 of 92 Old 04-18-2016, 04:07 AM
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Nice looking box. Brace the port tube (if you haven't already) since someone is going to try to try to use it as a lifting point someday.
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post #58 of 92 Old 04-18-2016, 05:03 AM
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Nice looking box. Brace the port tube (if you haven't already) since someone is going to try to try to use it as a lifting point someday.
Why brace the port tube.....ah I see! Great suggestion, will note for any of my future builds. Ports make great handles for heavy speakers and subs.

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post #59 of 92 Old 04-18-2016, 07:33 AM
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Looking forward to seeing the build complete and hear what you think of the boom! I think you will love it.
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post #60 of 92 Old 04-18-2016, 11:47 AM
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I was just going to use some pillow stuffing material to line the insides of the box around the walls of the driver area as per the 4645C, and just because it is cheap and readily available. Any thoughts on this?
Should work fine, many leave the pillow intact for ease of instalation and to keep stray material from getting where you don't want it.

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