This is going to destroy my house... - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 969 Old 01-18-2017, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Apparently I need to go back to the drawing board... lol

Thank you for your help! It is always appreciated

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post #932 of 969 Old 01-18-2017, 06:17 PM
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Uniquepattern, I am in Toronto, and I had 3 HTM-12s with flat packs and 8 Volt-6s shipped to a company in Niagara Falls NY where I picked them up and drove them back across the border myself. Nominal handling fee per package, it all worked out quite well.

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post #933 of 969 Old 01-18-2017, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by uniquepattern View Post
a ha... I see....
So more subs would be a waste of time then?


I never would have thought it possible given the installs some guys around here have....


From the sounds of it, you've likely just maxed on bass. You asked earlier if you should maybe start another, non-bass project. Maybe some in ceiling atmos speakers?

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post #934 of 969 Old 01-18-2017, 11:08 PM
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How hot is your sub and what does your house curve on your bass look like? You may have so much deep bass that you don't hear/feel the mid/upper bass slam frequencies that are a bit higher in frequency, and which are more likely to benefit in the near-field. You might have to back off on the house curve and/or overall level to actually hear the higher stuff too. Only listen at -15? Assuming you are calibrated to theatrical ref level, that's pretty whimpy, without the subs hot, especially for movies. Some good mains, properly configured (no Audyssey) ought to sound pretty nice at -5 on movies, or even higher depending on the mix. There's plenty of bass to be felt that's above the sub range, but not really with whimpy mains at only "-15".
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post #935 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by awediophile View Post
How hot is your sub and what does your house curve on your bass look like? You may have so much deep bass that you don't hear/feel the mid/upper bass slam frequencies that are a bit higher in frequency, and which are more likely to benefit in the near-field. You might have to back off on the house curve and/or overall level to actually hear the higher stuff too. Only listen at -15? Assuming you are calibrated to theatrical ref level, that's pretty whimpy, without the subs hot, especially for movies. Some good mains, properly configured (no Audyssey) ought to sound pretty nice at -5 on movies, or even higher depending on the mix. There's plenty of bass to be felt that's above the sub range, but not really with whimpy mains at only "-15".
The low end does rise quite a bit, but I like it that way...
I listen at -15MV for movies usually, as that is a comfortable level for me, however that goes right out the window when I crank some tunes.... I prefer to feel the music as much as hear it....
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post #936 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 08:48 AM
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Oh good... so I'm not crazy!
This is good to know...

So if more subs doesnt really make any sense...
...anyone have a suggestion for a project for me?

...or is chasing an apocalyptic level of bass a worthy exploit???
(Nobody needs to worry about my hearing - its been decimated by years of playing with vinyl in warehouses back during the 90's)
You may be enjoying those Polks, and they may not be "distorting" at the levels you play them, but they are most definitely compressing at -10 is my guess. There is NO WAY they can hang from a dynamic standpoint with the two 24's either. You find a chance to hear a good set of high efficiency speakers, equipped with compression drivers, and tell me they don't blow away the polks. Setup is key, but you get all that right and it will balance your experience out exponentially.

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post #937 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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You may be enjoying those Polks, and they may not be "distorting" at the levels you play them, but they are most definitely compressing at -10 is my guess. There is NO WAY they can hang from a dynamic standpoint with the two 24's either. You find a chance to hear a good set of high efficiency speakers, equipped with compression drivers, and tell me they don't blow away the polks. Setup is key, but you get all that right and it will balance your experience out exponentially.


I cant argue with that logic!
I guess I'm in the market for speakers then...
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post #938 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquepattern View Post
The low end does rise quite a bit, but I like it that way...
I listen at -15MV for movies usually, as that is a comfortable level for me, however that goes right out the window when I crank some tunes.... I prefer to feel the music as much as hear it....
I don't doubt that you like it the way it is, but if you are looking for something more or better, you might want to try a less aggressive house curve. My own experience suggests that too much bottom relative to the rest of the spectrum can actually diminish the tactile experience. A solid "kick in the chest" beat often just gets reduced to mud.

But of course, our preferences may differ.
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post #939 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by awediophile View Post
I don't doubt that you like it the way it is, but if you are looking for something more or better, you might want to try a less aggressive house curve. My own experience suggests that too much bottom relative to the rest of the spectrum can actually diminish the tactile experience. A solid "kick in the chest" beat often just gets reduced to mud.

But of course, our preferences may differ.

Hey, I'll give it a shot for sure!
The whole reason I stopped reading Audiophool Mags and came to AVS was to wind up with a killer HT setup - so if I ignore advice when given, whats the point???
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post #940 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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So, thinking about replacing the Polks, and looking for something "different" and "fun"...
What do you guys think of picking up a trio of 15XA38ND's to try out (they seem to be a favorite - decent looking response).... I found a couple of enclosure and XO designs online (however the XO's mostly seem like the Beyma stock version, but with Janzen Caps ect...) so I wont be going into this blindly...


What do you guys think, good idea or waste of time??
Would they be better then my Polks? (I would think so, but not sure)


(I can get a wicked deal on these coax's - thusly the interest)
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post #941 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 01:55 PM
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Go for a pair of the new DIYSG Titan-615's! They look like they'd have enough output for you.
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post #942 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 02:03 PM
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Questionable I guess is what I would say. Not a ton of reviews of people who have actually completed the build, at least that I could find with a quick search. I would recommend something a little more mainstream for your first DIY speaker build in any case. SOmething with a custom XO is imperative IMO. I did a LOT of testing with stock XO's, even some specific from beyma and radian ones that were solely for a single coaxial driver they also offered. They pale in comparison to a true full-on custom XO.

I'd keep looking for a DIYSG option if you can get it to you, or simply just purchase the jbl 4722's and call it a day
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post #943 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Questionable I guess is what I would say. Not a ton of reviews of people who have actually completed the build, at least that I could find with a quick search. I would recommend something a little more mainstream for your first DIY speaker build in any case. SOmething with a custom XO is imperative IMO. I did a LOT of testing with stock XO's, even some specific from beyma and radian ones that were solely for a single coaxial driver they also offered. They pale in comparison to a true full-on custom XO.

I'd keep looking for a DIYSG option if you can get it to you, or simply just purchase the jbl 4722's and call it a day
I found info on the Beyma Coax drivers, but not until I stumbbled on Tannoy GRF re-builds.... The Beyma driver seems to be the one of choice for that scoop with a custom XO (The values were not much different from Beyma's stock XO to be honest)
I can understand the suggestion for something a little more mainstream as you guys can better assist me if/when I screw something up - but if I wanted mainstream I wouldn't have gone with 24" subs

I would love me some 4722's
I like that suggestion....
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post #944 of 969 Old 01-19-2017, 06:29 PM
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Dude, weren't you building beyma based speakers a couple of months back? You really need to get/build more capable speakers! Once you have awesome speakers, "reference" level wouldn't sound loud.
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post #945 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 03:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Dude, weren't you building beyma based speakers a couple of months back? You really need to get/build more capable speakers! Once you have awesome speakers, "reference" level wouldn't sound loud.
I was looking to build some using tpl-150h tweeters, but realized that was a little bit too far outside my comfort zone...
I'm looking at some other options....


Question for you guys in Canada - if you don't have the luxury of driving across the boarder to pick stuff up, how do you use a shipping forwarder and who would you recommend?
I think I have made a decision... I think a trio of F15's for LCR and 4-6 Volt10's for Surrounds should be a fun project and fit well in my space???
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post #946 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 07:28 AM
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If you want to drive down to the Windsor border, I can meet you with a pair of 1099s. I'm thinking of selling my 1099s and upgrading.
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post #947 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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If you want to drive down to the Windsor border, I can meet you with a pair of 1099s. I'm thinking of selling my 1099s and upgrading.
Ill keep that in mind, thanks for the offer!
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post #948 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 07:51 AM
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Ill keep that in mind, thanks for the offer!
When I said pair, I meant three identical 1099s for LCR. The Fusion 15s are a nice speaker as well. Can't go wrong with that option.
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post #949 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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When I said pair, I meant three identical 1099s for LCR. The Fusion 15s are a nice speaker as well. Can't go wrong with that option.

Ah.... yeah, 3 would be much more usefull
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post #950 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you guys think of the Behringer 215XL's???
Those are stupid cheap, and I could have a set of 5 in hand to play with by the end of the day....
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post #951 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 08:40 AM
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post #952 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Why don't you just get 2 and see if you like them lol. You'll need to EQ them

Yeah, I could do that.....
Who am I kidding, that wont satisfy the need to build something!


How did you get your DIYSG stuff up to Canada???
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post #953 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 09:22 AM
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Yeah, I could do that.....
Who am I kidding, that wont satisfy the need to build something!


How did you get your DIYSG stuff up to Canada???
I shipped it to the UPS store in Buffalo and picked it up
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post #954 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 09:29 AM
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Yeah, I could do that.....
Who am I kidding, that wont satisfy the need to build something!


How did you get your DIYSG stuff up to Canada???
I use us parcel pickup (usparcel pickup.com) in Port Huron MI to get my goodies from the US. They charge $5 per parcel and have been great for me. Might be a little far for you as I imagine Buffalo NY is closer to you. I'm sure there's a similar spot there though. Also, I'm looking to sell an 88 special from DIY sound group since I've gone at screen and already had 3 cheap thrills built if you want to try something like that out.

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post #955 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 09:35 AM
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I'd put some serious planning and comparison in before making a move, knowing how quickly upgradeitis can set in. Not to mention the classic buyer's remorse.

I bet Vic's 1099s would sound amazing, although I think you need a horizontal centre, right? Might be able to do a baffle switch or something with some work, that could be your project. Otherwise, if you want something "unusual" or in this case I'd say "extraordinary" start a spreadsheet comparing a bunch of different builds. 1099s, 1899s, Titan-615s, Fusion 15s, etc. and maybe look at the "Statement" projects, maybe some line arrays... just don't jump into anything quite yet. Figure out your main priorities (keeping up with the 24's will be one of them) and see what might be a good fit. Whatever you come up with will be amazing in the end.
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post #956 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 11:10 AM
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I found info on the Beyma Coax drivers, but not until I stumbbled on Tannoy GRF re-builds.... The Beyma driver seems to be the one of choice for that scoop with a custom XO (The values were not much different from Beyma's stock XO to be honest)
I can understand the suggestion for something a little more mainstream as you guys can better assist me if/when I screw something up - but if I wanted mainstream I wouldn't have gone with 24" subs

I would love me some 4722's
I like that suggestion....
I didn't necessarily mean THAT mainstream, haha. Anyways, I have heard the fusion 15's, had some tempests for a while, 1099's, etc and if you are really going for the gold, 4722's are the deal. Just over $1000 per speaker (yea I know about the CDN problem) along with an additional order of the replacement upgraded CD in the 2453H-SL and you have a speaker that can go toe to toe with the majority of the premium speakers you see in the $10,000 and up categories. I am not kidding around at all here either.

EDIT: Plus if you want kick you in the chest midbass, absolutely no comparison.
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post #957 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't necessarily mean THAT mainstream, haha. Anyways, I have heard the fusion 15's, had some tempests for a while, 1099's, etc and if you are really going for the gold, 4722's are the deal. Just over $1000 per speaker (yea I know about the CDN problem) along with an additional order of the replacement upgraded CD in the 2453H-SL and you have a speaker that can go toe to toe with the majority of the premium speakers you see in the $10,000 and up categories. I am not kidding around at all here either.

EDIT: Plus if you want kick you in the chest midbass, absolutely no comparison.

With the CD upgrade, they only run about $1980 ea up here.....
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post #958 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 11:21 AM
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With the CD upgrade, they only run about $1980 ea up here.....
For comparative purposes, you do that and you are damn close to my jbl 4367's for a fraction of the cost.
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post #959 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I need to crawl back into my little hideaway hole and think about this for a bit... Those JBL's are beautiful - but its hard for me to justify that much cash...


The DIYSG stuff is right in the sweet spot for me (F15's and Volt10's)... but without direct shipping, for me its un-obtainium....
I emailed DIYSG anyway... I think I would really enjoy a set of F15's! Hopefully I can find a way to get them here....

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post #960 of 969 Old 01-20-2017, 10:08 PM
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I didn't necessarily mean THAT mainstream, haha. Anyways, I have heard the fusion 15's, had some tempests for a while, 1099's, etc and if you are really going for the gold, 4722's are the deal. Just over $1000 per speaker (yea I know about the CDN problem) along with an additional order of the replacement upgraded CD in the 2453H-SL and you have a speaker that can go toe to toe with the majority of the premium speakers you see in the $10,000 and up categories. I am not kidding around at all here either.

EDIT: Plus if you want kick you in the chest midbass, absolutely no comparison.
sorry, I'm not following along very well, and i should probably rear more, but oh well...

are you saying that the 4722s have a CD upgrade which makes them pretty much amazing and has all the mid bass slam you need, or are you saying the to replace the CD in the 2453H-SL?

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