RE Audio XXX18 Group Buy - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 145 Old 04-13-2016, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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RE Audio XXX18 Group Buy

Hello everyone,

I would like to see if there is any interest in a XXX18 group buy. Pricing is as follows:
Buy 20 $530 each.
Buy 50 $500 each

Shipping is very reasonable. Washington for instance is $38.
I plan to buy 2. But 4 is a possibility.
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post #2 of 145 Old 04-13-2016, 02:10 PM
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That's gonna be a tough sell, they need huge boxes and lots of power. The HST and UXL are better choices in most cases. Good luck though!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #3 of 145 Old 04-13-2016, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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That's gonna be a tough sell, they need huge boxes and lots of power. The HST and UXL are better choices in most cases. Good luck though!
Based on Data-bass.com they managed to surpass the HST and UXL in a 4 cu ft box. Not to mention they were very well regarded and seems more so than the HST and UXL. Based on objective results it is a better driver than the HST and UXL in most cases. The group buy for the UXL has been going on for almost a year now which is pretty sad whereas RE audio can have 50+ drivers built in 60 days and ready to ship. I know because I was interested in the UXL but they are not taking anymore orders.

List:
2 for me
6 for friends.

Anyone else?
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post #4 of 145 Old 04-13-2016, 09:09 PM
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I'm surprised there's not more interest in this. The V2 overhung version has much more motor force than the original split coil version.


The 3" coil also has massive winding width of ~4.5"!!! I'm not aware of a beefier 3" coil than that.
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post #5 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 04:28 AM
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I'd be into that but I'm in Australia so that kind of defeats the purpose when shipping will cost half the driver price...
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post #6 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I'm surprised there's not more interest in this. The V2 overhung version has much more motor force than the original split coil version.


The 3" coil also has massive winding width of ~4.5"!!! I'm not aware of a beefier 3" coil than that.

Ah well I still have 2 of the older split coil versions in crates. I had 4 but sold 2 off. I didn't know they had a new version.

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post #7 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 08:21 AM
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If they work in my boxes I am in... I will model when I get home Fridday..
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post #8 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 08:33 AM
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Sounds tempting. I'll have to ditto Mktheater and model it out for the room I have.
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post #9 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so I just got an alternative offer for the XX18 from RE Audio They will sell for $400 each. Apparently its the same driver as the xxx18 except for the motor. The fs is 20 hz. According to their website it has a 1.9" xmax which translates to a 48mm xmax whereas the XXX18 is 54mm. They can build as many as we want in just a few days.

Does this sound like something any of you would want?

If I buy these I'll put 2 in an isobaric configuration so I can get a very low F3 close to 20hz in half the box size, 4-5 cu ft. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I know there's a lot of arguements against isobaric but oddly enough the best musical and HT subwoofer's I have heard have been isobaric, ie Seaton Submersive and 2x Epik Empire's, 4x Epik Legend's. I'm waiting to receive my Laguna Drill Press so once I do I'll be building my own cabinets instead of going with the parts express ones. Plus I managed to get smoking deal on a surplus of 3/4" thick Baltic Birch Plywood, $37 for a 5x5 foot sheets.

Is 2" thick baffles overkill?
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post #10 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla_cooch View Post
Ok so I just got an alternative offer for the XX18 from RE Audio They will sell for $400 each. Apparently its the same driver as the xxx18 except for the motor. The fs is 20 hz. According to their website it has a 1.9" xmax which translates to a 48mm xmax whereas the XXX18 is 54mm. They can build as many as we want in just a few days.

Does this sound like something any of you would want?

If I buy these I'll put 2 in an isobaric configuration so I can get a very low F3 close to 20hz in half the box size, 4-5 cu ft. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I know there's a lot of arguements against isobaric but oddly enough the best musical and HT subwoofer's I have heard have been isobaric, ie Seaton Submersive and 2x Epik Empire's, 4x Epik Legend's. I'm waiting to receive my Laguna Drill Press so once I do I'll be building my own cabinets instead of going with the parts express ones. Plus I managed to get smoking deal on a surplus of 3/4" thick Baltic Birch Plywood, $37 for a 5x5 foot sheets.

Is 2" thick baffles overkill?
The subs that you mentioned are in a dual opposed configuration, not isobaric. Isobaric is when you have one driver pushing on the back of (or front of and out of phase with) another driver. Dual opposed is when you have the drivers mounted motor to motor with both of them in phase with eachother. Dual opposed boxes still require adequite volume for the drivers used, it's not a cake and eat it too scenario; the big benefit is that the cabinet will end up virtually vibration free since the subs firing away from eachother with the same signal cancels any box vibration out.
Nobody on here that I know of uses an isobaric setup.
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post #11 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I'm surprised there's not more interest in this. The V2 overhung version has much more motor force than the original split coil version.


The 3" coil also has massive winding width of ~4.5"!!! I'm not aware of a beefier 3" coil than that.
I'm not surprised.

The XXX18 is excellent in ways but not very versatile.

Imho, this is one of the ultimate IB drivers on the market and would only use them for an ultimate IB system.



Also, it may have "more BL" but being a conventional overhung topology, the curve for that is not as flat or linear. I'd rather have flatter BL curve than a higher static rating for it.
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post #12 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 03:54 PM
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Gorilla, slow down for a sec before you go crazy. . First, if the motor on the xx is different, then everything is different. You absolutely should get the TS parameters for that driver before assuming anything like box size or even an isobaric design. Isobaric solves a problem that we generally don't have these days. You're better off spending your money on a single driver that will work in the box you want than spending more money on two drivers that barely do the job of one. Remember, isobaric doesn't give you more output than a single driver. Plus isobaric subs are less efficient; you need an extra amp to power the second driver.
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post #13 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Oops, lol some guy in another forum told me that dual opposed is isobaric. He sent me a design of a push/pull where a driver fires into a chamber and another subwoofer adjacent to that chamber fires outward with the back of that woofer in the chamber. So I asked him about dual opposed and he told me that is pretty much isobaric too. lol.

Thank you for the reeducation. I will be building 2 enclosures then.

I was under the impression also that isobaric gives you the ability to use an enclosure that is half the volume of what it was meant for with the same F3. On the parts express forum one guy pointed out the following:

"Lets say you model an 8 ohm 15" woofer that alone needed a ported 18 cu-ft box to have an f3 of 14 hz. By going to isobaric, the total box size could drop to about 9 cu-ft. The f3 would still be 14 hz. The impedance would now be 4 ohms. A second advantage would be that each driver gets half of the power, so the thermal power handling is improved. The maximum spl output would be about the same as using one woofer."

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post #14 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla_cooch View Post
Oops, lol some guy in another forum told me that dual opposed is isobaric. He sent me a design of a push/pull where a driver fires into a chamber and another subwoofer adjacent to that chamber fires outward with the back of that woofer in the chamber. So I asked him about dual opposed and he told me that is pretty much isobaric too. lol.



Thank you for the reeducation. I will be building 2 enclosures then.



I was under the impression also that isobaric gives you the ability to use an enclosure that is half the volume of what it was meant for with the same F3. On the parts express forum one guy pointed out the following:



"Lets say you model an 8 ohm 15" woofer that alone needed a ported 18 cu-ft box to have an f3 of 14 hz. By going to isobaric, the total box size could drop to about 9 cu-ft. The f3 would still be 14 hz. The impedance would now be 4 ohms. A second advantage would be that each driver gets half of the power, so the thermal power handling is improved. The maximum spl output would be about the same as using one woofer."


Dual opposed is two woofers each operating individually, all it means is that the mechanical forces are opposed to each other ultimately cancelling out the forces to reduce vibration, resonances and the enclosure scooting across your den. One woofer faces North, one South and they essentially balance out each other out mechanically.

You're right about some of the things you say about Isobaric, it is two woofers operating as one unit in a clamshell configuration, only the output of the outside woofer is audible, it doubles the mechanical efficiency of the motor assembly allowing two drivers to overcome double the spring pressure to maintain the same output of one speaker in half the air space.

It is very inefficient but worth it if space is a premium.
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post #15 of 145 Old 04-14-2016, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
Gorilla, slow down for a sec before you go crazy. . First, if the motor on the xx is different, then everything is different. You absolutely should get the TS parameters for that driver before assuming anything like box size or even an isobaric design. Isobaric solves a problem that we generally don't have these days. You're better off spending your money on a single driver that will work in the box you want than spending more money on two drivers that barely do the job of one. Remember, isobaric doesn't give you more output than a single driver. Plus isobaric subs are less efficient; you need an extra amp to power the second driver.
The comment you made "First, if the motor on the xx is different, then everything is different." Can you please cite the information for your source? I cannot find anywhere online where it says what you are saying is true. If you go online and look at both the XX18 and XXX18 they are both almost identical. The only difference is a larger motor. But according to them it's the same cone, same coil, same spider, same dustcap, same lead, same basket just a different motor. So where are you getting your information from? Other than the items listed, what else would be different? I'm just trying to educate myself.

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post #16 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:03 AM
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I just spoke with 2 different subwoofer companies. The comment you made "First, if the motor on the xx is different, then everything is different." Can you please site the information for your source? I cannot find anywhere online or in any book that says what you are saying is true. If you go online and look at both the XX18 and XXX18 they are both almost identical. The only difference is a larger motor. But according to them it's the same cone, same coil, same spider, same dustcap, same lead, same basket just a different motor. So where are you getting your information from? Other than the items listed, what else would be different? I'm just trying to educate myself.


The motor which is the voice coil and magnet are a massive part of what makes any speaker work and has a huge effect on the T/S parameters. T/S parameters determine are representative and can help determine how that motor will make the cone sound as well as how that cone will interact with the air inside the enclosure.

So to summarize, a different motor makes it a virtually whole new driver, and everything very well could be different.
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post #17 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Dual opposed is two woofers each operating individually, all it means is that the mechanical forces are opposed to each other ultimately cancelling out the forces to reduce vibration, resonances and the enclosure scooting across your den. One woofer faces North, one South and they essentially balance out each other out mechanically.

You're right about some of the things you say about Isobaric, it is two woofers operating as one unit in a clamshell configuration, only the output of the outside woofer is audible, it doubles the mechanical efficiency of the motor assembly allowing two drivers to overcome double the spring pressure to maintain the same output of one speaker in half the air space.

It is very inefficient but worth it if space is a premium.
Unfortunately space is a premium in my 1000 sq ft condo. I have this monster eD 190v2 diy vented subwoofer that is 3 ft tall x 2ft wide x 2ft deep. I want to sell it and build the 2 sealed subwoofers.
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post #18 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:12 AM
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Unfortunately space is a premium in my 1000 sq ft condo. I have this monster eD 190v2 diy vented subwoofer that is 3 ft tall x 2ft wide x 2ft deep. I want to sell it and build the 2 sealed subwoofers.


Then build an isobaric setup, a lot of people are down on them due to basically using twice as many drivers and amps to get the same result acoustically, but the space savings are legitimate and worth it if it's a requirement.
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post #19 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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The motor which is the voice coil and magnet are a massive part of what makes any speaker work and has a huge effect on the T/S parameters. T/S parameters determine are representative and can help determine how that motor will make the cone sound as well as how that cone will interact with the air inside the enclosure.

So to summarize, a different motor makes it a virtually whole new driver, and everything very well could be different.
So it could be but not definitive? So you are making an educated guess with no definitive backup or source info. Can you cite your sources?
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post #20 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh and please don't take it as though I'm attacking you. I am wary of anyone I talk to on these forums since obviously the first guy I spoke to was misinformed. Therefore I will take everything everyone says with a grain of salt. I don't want to make the same mistake again by believing everything you say as fact.

In fact someone emailed me earlier asking me for advice but I kindly told them to email one of the senior members since I lack intimate knowledge of sound engineering. I am a beginner in all this. I love working with wood and building stuff.
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post #21 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:24 AM
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So it could be but not definitive? So you are making an educated guess with no definitive backup or source info. Can you cite your sources?
Start by reading this book, it is an excellent source, if you haven't read a source like this then you will learn a lot: http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-De...1&sr=8-1-spell

Also you can read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele%2FSmall

Both these are very basic and fundamental information about speaker theory and function.

I tried to go to RE's website so I could compare the specs of the XX to the XXX for you but they have a pretty bad website with very little technical information about their drivers unfortunately, it also appears they don't list info for the XX any longer? Happy to help if you can supply the specs of each driver you're comparing.
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post #22 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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http://reaudio.com/info/ThieleSmalls.php

The specs for the XX18 are listed there. Its at the top of the page too. It says Theile/Smalls/Re Box.
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post #23 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:33 AM
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Ok I looked a little deeper and found the specs on their site, as you can see these are not the same speaker:

Driver Properties--Description--
Name: XXX 18 D4
--Driver Parameters--
Fs =28.94 Hz
Qms = 5.403
Vas = 3.404 cu.ft [6.808]
Xmax = 2.3 in
Sd = 194.8 sq.in
Qes = 0.802
Re = 1.881 ohms
Le = 2.077 mH
Z= 2.257 ohms
Pe = 2000 watts

Driver Properties
--Description--
Name: XX 18 D4
--Driver Parameters--
Fs = 20.51 Hz
Qms = 5.76
Vas = 6.082 cu.ft
Xmax = 1.9 in
Sd = 194.8 sq.in
Qes = 0.567
Re = 1.48 ohms
Le = 1.727 mH
Z = 1.776 ohms
Pe = 1500 watts


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post #24 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 12:34 AM
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http://reaudio.com/info/ThieleSmalls.php

The specs for the XX18 are listed there. Its at the top of the page too. It says Theile/Smalls/Re Box.
Correct I found them and listed them above for you, first time I went to the site it crashed my browser.
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post #25 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 01:31 AM
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how would a xxx 18 perform vs the HST 18 in a 4.5 cu ft sealed box with 2200 w @ 4 ohm?
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post #26 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I looked a little deeper and found the specs on their site, as you can see these are not the same speaker:

Driver Properties--Description--
Name: XXX 18 D4
--Driver Parameters--
Fs =28.94 Hz
Qms = 5.403
Vas = 3.404 cu.ft [6.808]
Xmax = 2.3 in
Sd = 194.8 sq.in
Qes = 0.802
Re = 1.881 ohms
Le = 2.077 mH
Z= 2.257 ohms
Pe = 2000 watts

Driver Properties
--Description--
Name: XX 18 D4
--Driver Parameters--
Fs = 20.51 Hz
Qms = 5.76
Vas = 6.082 cu.ft
Xmax = 1.9 in
Sd = 194.8 sq.in
Qes = 0.567
Re = 1.48 ohms
Le = 1.727 mH
Z = 1.776 ohms
Pe = 1500 watts

According to them they are still the same components. Just the motor is different. So if the motor is different wouldn't that explain the specs difference. Either way the it doesn't matter, What matters is this is a group buy for XXX18. That is what I plan on buying for 2x subwoofers. Refer to Data-bass.com they have tested specs with objective data. Use that.
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post #27 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct I found them and listed them above for you, first time I went to the site it crashed my browser.
Something is wrong with your computer then. I had no problems on their site.
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post #28 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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how would a xxx 18 perform vs the HST 18 in a 4.5 cu ft sealed box with 2200 w @ 4 ohm?
Check data-bass and see for yourself. Asking how it would perform with the wattage you provided would be purely speculative. No one here has tried both side by side to see. But according to Data-bass its a superior driver with objective results taken on both.
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post #29 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gorilla_cooch View Post
According to them they are still the same components. Just the motor is different. So if the motor is different wouldn't that explain the specs difference. Either way the it doesn't matter, What matters is this is a group buy for XXX18. That is what I plan on buying for 2x subwoofers. Refer to Data-bass.com they have tested specs with objective data. Use that.


Maybe there is a disconnect in semantics between us, I'd like to be helpful and provide the "sources" you ask for, but saying "two motors are different but two drivers are the same" is very incorrect so I'm not sure what you really mean when you say that.

If I can actually help explain anything technical please let me know, I'm here to help. =)
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post #30 of 145 Old 04-15-2016, 08:54 AM
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how would a xxx 18 perform vs the HST 18 in a 4.5 cu ft sealed box with 2200 w @ 4 ohm?
Not as well as the HST18 in that small of an enclosure. It will have very peaky response but will slightly outgun the HST in burst output.

I'd keep the HST's, personally.
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