DIYSG LCR Reccomendation F-15's of 1099's - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I got you looks like the way to go. Reading your build thread now. I'm glad I got flat packs. I need a lot more clamps.
Rule number... something. Always buy more clamps then you think you will need!
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post #32 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 04:06 PM
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Is it pointless to have a 3-way if you are running subs?
No. In my opinion and experience it's preferable. I don't like the sound of a large driver operating up to 1kHz or so: I'd rather have a dedicated mid in between.
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post #33 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 04:37 PM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...warts-all.html

this was my F15 build, non flat pack, however,

some issues you may think of

proximity of the xo to the woofer magnet not an issue per Erich H.

as a ported cab, a good wood glue, gorilla, titebond very strong,

PL3 not required
your could still run a bead of silicon around inside joints,, OCD a common trait of DIYers

careful wth the stuffing wrt not blocking ports but do paint behind the ports, a visual will let you see what i mean

the ports probably go in last, they're not designed for easy removal, so as not to rattle

you can see I used the blue demin, used a spray adhesive, precut and pre fit all pieces

gotta do it outdoors, also messy stinky and un co-operative = dumb idea

others may have a better idea

for the record, if using waffle mattress foam topper, 1 1/2", , not memory foam, , like from wallyworld, ,
in my own tests,
a layer of gorilla glue on the plywood and a thin layer or 2 on the foam, bonds very well and completely= less stink, overspray, less mess, controllable
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
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post #34 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 04:45 PM
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@uniquepattern
@David Varner

Rule number... something. Always buy more clamps then you think you will need!

can a DIY brotha get a "AMEN"?
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
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post #35 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
No. In my opinion and experience it's preferable. I don't like the sound of a large driver operating up to 1kHz or so: I'd rather have a dedicated mid in between.
Well i dont have a preference as of yet and I do plan on building some fullrange speakers for music just to find out. Bit these seem to fit the bill pretty well.

Going the DIY route i can afford to make changes if i feel the need.
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post #36 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 05:34 PM
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Great choice on the F-15's. I highly recommend building them bigger. Mine are 4.6ft^3 and f3 in room is 25hz. I power mine with crown xls1500's and occasionally have them producing 112db 12' away at MLP. Needless to say, they can keep up with my 8 x ported 18's.

My build thread with tons of pics and measurements: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...WraOEekbJhwR8A

My gtg where we pitted the f15's against the highly regarded Seaton Catalyst 8c: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...2355017?page=1

And a pic for motivation...


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post #37 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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you can see I used the blue demin, used a spray adhesive, precut and pre fit all pieces
I was wondering how to keep the denim in there. I plan on using the 2" stuff from Home Depot. 3m adhesive spray should do the trick huh, no staples?

I read thorough your build thread but didn't see that crossover pic. Is zip ties the standard? Also are you mounting the board or just laying it in there? If so how are you attaching it once inside the box.

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post #38 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Great choice on the F-15's. I highly recommend building them bigger. Mine are 4.6ft^3 and f3 in room is 25hz. I power mine with crown xls1500's and occasionally have them producing 112db 12' away at MLP. Needless to say, they can keep up with my 8 x ported 18's.

My build thread with tons of pics and measurements: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...WraOEekbJhwR8A

My gtg where we pitted the f15's against the highly regarded Seaton Catalyst 8c: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...2355017?page=1

And a pic for motivation...


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I read through your whole build thread as well. This is my first build and I plan on just sticking with the flat pack. I made pretty much an impulse move buying these and the more I read about them the more I am being assured I made the right decision. unlike most of my impulse buys.

Being set on buying 3 JTR Noesis212's at over $7,000. I had to give these a try first.

Couple questions:

How did you secure the crossovers though the denim in the cabinet.?

What amp are you using to power these babies?

Is there a scematic somewhere for the crossovers or is it included in the Kit?

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post #39 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 05:58 PM
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Well i dont have a preference as of yet and I do plan on building some fullrange speakers for music just to find out.
Mine are full range. They do 45Hz flat sealed outdoors and lower with some room gain. Each uses a pair of AE TD15S with 14mm Xmax and 500W/driver, so I could EQ flat to 20Hz if I wanted to. They're still crossed to subs at 60Hz.
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post #40 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Mine are full range. They do 45Hz flat sealed outdoors and lower with some room gain. Each uses a pair of AE TD15S with 14mm Xmax and 500W/driver, so I could EQ flat to 20Hz if I wanted to. They're still crossed to subs at 60Hz.
What speakers are they, DIY?
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post #41 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I read through your whole build thread as well. This is my first build and I plan on just sticking with the flat pack. I made pretty much an impulse move buying these and the more I read about them the more I am being assured I made the right decision. unlike mose of my impulse buys.

Couple questions:

How did you secure the crossovers though the denim in the cabinet.?

What amp are you using to power these babies?

Is there a scematic somewhere for the crossovers or is it included in the Kit?
As stated, I use crown xls1500 amplifiers. With just my Denon x4000, these can be driven to 108db.

For the crossover, order the boards from @mtg90 or have him assemble it for you to eliminate the risk of wiring it wrong, especially if it's your first time. Erich will provide you the crossover schematic.

I used 3m/77 by spraying the cab and insulation before attaching them. My crossover is screwed onto one of the bracing windows.

I've also added polyfill behind the cd/wg as per the designer


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post #42 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:03 PM
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I was wondering how to keep the denim in there.
The denim isn't available here, so I use fibreglass and use cheap cotton cloth stapled to the walls and/or bracing to hold it where I want it to be.
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post #43 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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That looks like a great spot for the Xover. I feel confident in building it. I'm good at soldering and following directions. That actually seems like the fun part to me.

I can't wait to get started on these babies. I think i'm in for a real treat.
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post #44 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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The denim isn't available here, so I use fibreglass and use cheap cotton cloth stapled to the walls and/or bracing to hold it where I want it to be.
From what I read so far it doesn't look like it really matters too much what you use.
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post #45 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:11 PM
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What speakers are they, DIY?
Yes. They have a Danly Unity doing 300Hz up between the 15's. No pics as they're in the process of being rebuilt into something better looking than the original nailed together unfinished MDF boxes. Here's a quick sketchup I did a while back on what they'll look like.



They'll be one box though, not 3 like in the pic. Xovers are active, 2x8 MiniDSP with ESS Sabre ADC/DACs.
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post #46 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:42 PM
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I had to beef up my SoundGroup speakers as 4-ways to be fully-happy with them on music.
For movies I could careless about SQ, as long as I can hear what the actors are saying and the explosions are loud, it's all good.
-My 2 cents

4Hz to 40kHz +-3db MUCH BETTER! No need to set them as "smalls", no bass induced distortion in the mids, and the tweeter is extended to way-beyond human hearing limits.
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post #47 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I had to beef up my SoundGroup speakers as 4-ways to be fully-happy with them on music.
For movies I could careless about SQ, as long as I can hear what the actors are saying and the explosions are loud, it's all good.
-My 2 cents
Got a build thread on that speaker. I got a bout 10 different questions..haha
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post #48 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:47 PM
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Yes. They have a Danly Unity doing 300Hz up between the 15's. No pics as they're in the process of being rebuilt into something better looking than the original nailed together unfinished MDF boxes. Here's a quick sketchup I did a while back on what they'll look like.



They'll be one box though, not 3 like in the pic. Xovers are active, 2x8 MiniDSP with ESS Sabre ADC/DACs.
Did you use an existing Danley speaker and canibalize it for the unity horn or did you clone one of theirs? How did you get it?
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post #49 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 06:49 PM
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Got a build thread on that speaker. I got a bout 10 different questions..haha
My speaker build thread link is in my sig.
It's a long thread, I hope you have a full cup of coffee, I'm still working on the speaker actually (still not done, but very very close... the sonic signature will not be changing... at least.)
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I had to beef up my SoundGroup speakers as 4-ways to be fully-happy with them on music.
For movies I could careless about SQ, as long as I can hear what the actors are saying and the explosions are loud, it's all good.
-My 2 cents

4Hz to 40kHz +-3db MUCH BETTER! No need to set them as "smalls", no bass induced distortion in the mids, and the tweeter is extended to way-beyond human hearing limits.
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My speaker build thread link is in my sig.
It's a long thread, I hope you have a full cup of coffee, I'm still working on the speaker actually (still not done, but very very close... the sonic signature will not be changing... at least.)
I'm scared. I've been on this forum less than a month and I'm buying microphones for REW. Building speakers. blowing up $3,000 subwoofers. What's next. I think I got that crazy disease that people catch when they log on to this site more than twice in one day.
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post #51 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 07:07 PM
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I'm scared. I've been on this forum less than a month and I'm buying microphones for REW. Building speakers. blowing up $3,000 subwoofers. What's next. I think I got that crazy disease that people catch when they log on to this site more than twice in one day.
I know. The specs of my mains exceeds the specs of a CSL calibrated UMIK-1 and its 48khz digital nyquist limit, say that three times fast!

Blowing up a JTR ULF might seems crazy on the retail subwoofer forum, but this is the DIY forum, most of us are running 8 (or even 32) 18's by now... No kill like overkill.

Prior to owning 8 18's I kept blowing up all my subwoofers, it just couldn't handle the heat from the SPL I like.
It took that many coils to get the thermals low-enough to not smoke them after each booming-session.

I smoked $5000 worth of subs before I learned that retail subs just couldn't keep up, and their asking price is other-worldly too.
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post #52 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Prior to owning 8 18's I kept blowing up all my subwoofers, it just couldn't handle the heat from the SPL I like.
It took that many coils to get the thermals low-enough to not smoke them after each booming-session.
I already see where this is heading.I better go get me a good table saw and a lot of clamps. Or better yet a very large CNC Router table.
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post #53 of 102 Old 05-12-2016, 07:36 PM
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The xo, some ties and some hotmelt glue, depends on the componenet, for this one i may not have yet purchased myhotmelt gun

I had to special order the denim, 6 rolls, thru Home Depot but waffle foam is good

You can staple the waffle foam, easy peasy

my xo was screwed down onto the brace down the center of the back piece, which is why the denim got put in the way it did,

you'r bracing will be different

usually, under the denim or foam isn't an issue, also the size ins't likely to have much impact if there is nothing under or over it.

and you can avoid logging in more than twice a day . . .

never log off

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Did you use an existing Danley speaker and canibalize it for the unity horn or did you clone one of theirs? How did you get it?
Years ago Lambda Audio designed the Unity (I believe) by reading the patent and working it out. They were licenced from Danley and sold commercially for some years, then Nick closed it down. Some time later he found two unpainted units in his garage and put them on ebay, where I bought one. The other also came to Australia. I believe the speaker part of Lambda became AE.
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post #55 of 102 Old 05-13-2016, 01:36 PM
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My wife would rather me go to porn sites than AVS or DIY Forums...

I told it was better than hanging out in bars and picking up loose women--she replied that loose women leave but giant ugly subwoofers are forever.

The one tip I can give besides more clamps (AMEN!) is to be patient and finish the boxes before ever assembling the speakers. My subs in the garage have been "curing" for over two years and I'll sand and paint them eventually. At this point, it might take another two years just to make sure.

I presently am building birch cabinets for Fusion 10 mains--my wife demands they look nice "unlike the eye rape coffins in the garage". So I complete the box build (done) then finish them in Duratex and make top/bottom wood caps ala' Advent to overhang to be flush with the front grills.

Good luck and be patient...
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post #56 of 102 Old 05-13-2016, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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My wife would rather me go to porn sites than AVS or DIY Forums...

I told it was better than hanging out in bars and picking up loose women--she replied that loose women leave but giant ugly subwoofers are forever.

The one tip I can give besides more clamps (AMEN!) is to be patient and finish the boxes before ever assembling the speakers. My subs in the garage have been "curing" for over two years and I'll sand and paint them eventually. At this point, it might take another two years just to make sure.

I presently am building birch cabinets for Fusion 10 mains--my wife demands they look nice "unlike the eye rape coffins in the garage". So I complete the box build (done) then finish them in Duratex and make top/bottom wood caps ala' Advent to overhang to be flush with the front grills.

Good luck and be patient...
So funny you said that about finishing the boxes before you put the speakers in I was telling myself the same thing if I don't finish them before I probably never will...lol. Looks don't matter to me. I'm more about functionality but it bothers other people. When the lights are out and music is cranking or the bass scenes dropping in a good movie the speakers should disappear anyway that's the point....right.
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post #57 of 102 Old 05-13-2016, 05:27 PM
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if you're going for duratex,

there is a flat black primer/finish at lowes, $20/gal that makes for a great primer/proof coat, let it dry 2 days, even thin the first coat a bit

how you want it finished is your call

and gives duratx a great base for extended coverage, not a bad idea @ $70+/gallon

butfinish the boxes first,tho you should check the mounting holes and all that, then take the drivers out and go for it

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post #58 of 102 Old 05-13-2016, 06:41 PM
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My wife would rather me go to porn sites than AVS or DIY Forums...
I told it was better than hanging out in bars and picking up loose women--she replied that loose women leave but giant ugly subwoofers are forever.
I want it all!


Is that codeword for: 3-way design?
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post #59 of 102 Old 05-14-2016, 09:59 AM
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Thanks for the info on the primer coat,

The Fusion 10's primer is Titebond II mixed 50/50 with water--a few coats and sand till smooth but only on the seams and MDF baffle. The subwoofer project next year will be up to my wife to determine the finish. Go ugly early for the garage speakers, use those experiences to make the in house stuff better. If the wood caps on the F10's work to her liking, I can do the same things with the subs with wood caps on each side, gray grill cloth on the front and something for the tops.

I've always liked a good 3-way design--now it makes perfect sense!
18Hurts is offline  
post #60 of 102 Old 05-15-2016, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post


I had to beef up my SoundGroup speakers as 4-ways to be fully-happy with them on music.
For movies I could careless about SQ, as long as I can hear what the actors are saying and the explosions are loud, it's all good.
-My 2 cents

4Hz to 40kHz +-3db MUCH BETTER! No need to set them as "smalls", no bass induced distortion in the mids, and the tweeter is extended to way-beyond human hearing limits.
What are you using for the tweeter that I see sitting on top of your mains? Would that be considered a super tweeter? It looks just like the one on your B&W unit right next to it. Pretty cool. Post up the brand and model as well as how you are crossing it over?
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