Broke EF & eng-399 I-CLOps build - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 98 Old 07-30-2016, 06:58 PM
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Which driver are you using? I have wire two SI HT 18's for a 4 ohm load on an I Nuke 3000 DSP amp without problems. Most of the subs have UM 18's. I only use one sub with UM 18 on an I Nuke 3000 DSP amp or one channel of the I Nuke 6000 DSP amp on a 4 ohm load. No more that two subs each with UM 18's on a I Nuke 6000 DSP amp at 4 ohms, each channel.

Anything equal or great than the UM 18 should be treated like a UM 18 with the I Nuke amps. Double check internal wiring on the driver to make sure it is the correct load. For simplicity, I keep all amp channels to a 4 ohm load.
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post #32 of 98 Old 07-30-2016, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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To answer your question DJ I am using the Infinity 1262w's which are dual 4ohm voice coil.

As it turns out I had them wired wrong, well half wrong. I had each sub correctly wired to 2ohm's, but then wired them in parallel to 1ohm. After I cut the grass I grabbed the ole multi meter and gave them a measure and that was how I figured it out. I figured it was easier to wire each driver to 8ohm, and then parallel a pair to 4ohm. Some quick rewiring and I was back in business!


While I am posting some pics, I will just throw them all up real fast. First off, all of the subs are still dirty and need to be wiped down. I also did not download any pics off of my camera yet, so all you get is cellphone shots.

Just one of the wires for a front sub. I am going to change out the banana plugs, and also put some tech flex over the cable later.


Three of the 4 drivers wired up (incorrectly). This is when each was wired as a 2ohm load.


Close up of the same wiring


Gotta have some racing on while I work! This is the NMCA/NMRA Superbowl in Joliet IL. I would suggest checking it out tomorrow on BangShift.com Great racing!


Close up shot of the speakon terminal on a box. I countersunk them all which turned out awesome IMO!


Front subs, that was the credits for John Wick. More on that in a minute.


Couple shots of the rear subs. These have 90 degree speakon's so I could get them closer to the wall.




Now on to the wordy part of this post I have to start out by saying I am shocked that everything survived being turned all the way up at 1ohm! Yes, I had the inuke cranked, the receiver was +5 on the sub channel, and the volume was at 0 with the EOT clip, and it all survived. Sure the amp was going into protection, but it pounded the hell out of those subs for a few seconds first and was coming back on and off for a bit as the clip went on. Impressive to say the least, but I am happy I didn't damage anything, and wouldn't recommend trying that.

After I got that all sorted out and got all 4 hooked up and wired right it was time to try that again. The wife was down in the basement, and I decided maybe I should take it a bit easier this time. Subs were both set to 0, and I ran the receiver at -5. The inuke was set to my normal volume setting for the front, and I just did the same for the rear which I know is technically a bit low at the MLP. Cue the EOT clip and it was so violent that **** started falling out of my lights and my wife freaked out!! The dog was scared outta his mind (laying in his bed shaking) and I had the biggest smile on my face imaginable I do feel bad about scaring my dog though. I have no idea how loud it was, but it was pretty damn impressive for a ~$600 set up.

I am going to TRY and run REW tomorrow, but we do have some stuff going on. Since it was kind of late, and the wife was already hanging out in the basement with me (all day) I decided to watch a movie rather than start running any set up. So I dialed the subs back some more and put on John Wick since the wife had never seen it. We both really enjoyed it, and I was really happy with the tactile feed back I was getting on some of the larger hits. Overall it seemed really smooth and even, but the mic will tell for sure tomorrow. I know I have each sub located in its best possible configuration and location based on running only one, so hopefully I am pretty close already.

I don't think I will have any problem getting a nice flat curve with these and some EQ (minimal probably). I am hoping I can get them pretty flat from around 10htz to maybe 100htz, and I would like to see 120db when I crank em up. Like I said though we will have to see what the mic says rather than bench racing

More to come!

Sean
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post #33 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 07:54 AM
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Love it man. Great job! To me, this is the biggest part of what DYI is about. Getting the absolute best performance for your money and this setup knocks that out of the park!

Sucks that that driver is discontinued............
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post #34 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
Love it man. Great job! To me, this is the biggest part of what DYI is about. Getting the absolute best performance for your money and this setup knocks that out of the park!

Sucks that that driver is discontinued............
I agree with you, there is a certain satisfaction when you know you have wrung every drop of performance out of something. This setup is extremely impressive, and that is without taking into consideration the cost. I really hope I can get some good measurements later today.

Sonic electronics still show the dual and the single in stock.


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post #35 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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post #36 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Lets ignore that graph since one of the fronts was wired out of phase! Whoops!

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post #37 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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First correct measurement. This is all 4 running right, NO EQ at all, both channels at 0 in the receiver, and the inuke channels adjusted to about 83db each (mains are reading 79). I think that is a pretty damn good start!!!



More to come!


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post #38 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:29 PM
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Nice. What is the crossover set at?

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post #39 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
Nice. What is the crossover set at?
All speakers are set to small, and 80htz right now.

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post #40 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:36 PM
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You should set the crossover as high as you can and take a sweep.

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post #41 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:40 PM
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Wow dude! That's amazing. Are you crossing your mains at 60hz? It looks like it. you may want to bump your crossovers to 200 or whatever see how high you can play cleanly (distortion below ~3% above 20hz). Also, check out mtg90's guide in my sig if you haven't yet. It shows how to set the delays to max out the spl and eq as a group ..but it looks like you don't need any eq! Are you smoothing the graphs at all?

Congrats!
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post #42 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:44 PM
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The graph looks pretty darn good. I like the room and good catch on the wiring! What front speakers are you using for the HT?
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post #43 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You should set the crossover as high as you can and take a sweep.
The mains were turned off. Unless you are thinking the signal is getting cut off toward the end of my sweep.


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post #44 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Wow dude! That's amazing. Are you crossing your mains at 60hz? It looks like it. you may want to bump your crossovers to 200 or whatever see how high you can play cleanly (distortion below ~3% above 20hz). Also, check out mtg90's guide in my sig if you haven't yet. It shows how to set the delays to max out the spl and eq as a group ..but it looks like you don't need any eq! Are you smoothing the graphs at all?

Congrats!
I just kind of replied to the crossover thing. I will change it and sweep again at "normal" settings. I am not smoothing the graphs at all (left that at the top for you ) I need to read up a little on what I can do and how to make them better. I dont think there is much EQ if any to bother with, but I do have a null that is showing up with all 4. I will sweep just the fronts and just the rears to see what I can come up with there.

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post #45 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
The graph looks pretty darn good. I like the room and good catch on the wiring! What front speakers are you using for the HT?
Thanks! I knew something was a bit off, and then I ran them by themselves and it was WAY messed up looking. A little detective work sorted that out quick.

I am using Canton LE170's for now as my font L&R, with the matching center (LE130CE maybe?)

Sean
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post #46 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
The mains were turned off. Unless you are thinking the signal is getting cut off toward the end of my sweep.


Sean
That may be part of the issue. Definitely check out mtg90's writeup. May not need eq but i bet some phase and/or delay adjustments will help.
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post #47 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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5-200htz, with crossovers set to 200 on all channels



Nasty null in there.

Same graph, but to the range of the previous (non-SPL) chart.




Sean
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post #48 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 06:15 PM
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Sean looking good!
So that 120 Hz null is very sharp - could be a room suckout?
What is your XO frequency

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post #49 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 06:16 PM
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Never mind - just saw it looks like your XO is at 200Hz...?

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post #50 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
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5-200htz, with crossovers set to 200 on all channels



Nasty null in there.

Same graph, but to the range of the previous (non-SPL) chart.




Sean
Still not bad at all. Get them all working constructively as per the guide and you'll likely need very little if any eq.

After that you can pick a crossover point to your mains. I like to use the distortion graphs to see where to cross. IMO, you run a sweep with your mains at the volume you plan to watch movies at and then see where distortion rises as you go down in hz. You want to cross where distortion is still pretty low. Also do the same with your subs to see how high you can cross them... Usually mains are the issue and subs play clean pretty high. Note sometimes distortion is from the room getting excited. Your subs may not excite some distortion that your mains do excite. So even though the mains can play low, certain distortions may show up that don't when you play your subs..so you cross your subs higher to avoid them. It's Frankenstein science but works for me.
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post #51 of 98 Old 07-31-2016, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Never mind - just saw it looks like your XO is at 200Hz...?
Yes, the first sweeps were at 80htz, the last two (Same sweep, different range on the chart) were at 200htz.

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post #52 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Good morning guys! I was looking at my charts last night before bed, and I noticed something that I am a bit confused about. Comparing the first all four chart



To the last all four chart that should be set to the same range



And also the "Max SPL" chart




I am going to break them down in the order I took them.

So in the first chart, I had the receiver at 0 for both channels, the speakers all set to small with a crossover of 80htz, and adjusted the inuke so that the subs read about 83db on the REW SPL meter (8 clicks down from full, just a bit past half way). The other speakers were right about 79db, but I turned off the amp for all of my testing. That is a nice flat response until about 60htz where it drops like 18db, and also the big null at 120htz.

Next up came the "Max SPL" chart where I was trying to just see how crazy they will get. I turned each channel up to +6 in the receiver, and each channel on the amp to two clicks from full. Just FYI, when they were adjusted to 83db it was 8 clicks down from full (just a bit past half way). In this one the SPL is really pretty much the same, BUT it stays flatter until about maybe 95htz. It also picked up more on the lower end as well, so really it flattened out the first curve more on the ends but didn't really gain much SPL.

Last one I ran was adjusted back to 8 clicks up from full on the inuke, and 0 for both channels in the receiver. The big change from the first chart should be that all the speakers were now set to 200htz crossover as opposed to 80htz. Looking at it today I guess it is pretty similar, but that step down at around 60htz isn't quite as big.

So questions

1. Why do I have a "step" down from 60htz and up?
2. Why do I have such a big dive at ~120htz?
3. Why is my SPL only about 5db higher than it was with 1 sub running at 8ohms?
4. Why is the SPL pretty much not changing when I turn the amps way higher and boost the signal from the receiver?
5. Why is my graph much flatter when I have them turned way hot?

I am sure I am reading into all of this more than I should, but that is how I am. BTW, I still have all of the runs so I can fix the charts if that makes it easier. I know having the parameters, and file sizes different for each makes it more difficult.

Thanks for the help!

Sean
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post #53 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 03:24 PM
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Sean,

How are you connecting to your avr to take these measurements? Hdmi?

Pete
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post #54 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Sean,

How are you connecting to your avr to take these measurements? Hdmi?

Pete
Correct, I am running it all through my HTPC which is directly connected to the AVR.

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post #55 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 04:25 PM
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Are you using channel 4 to take measurements for the subs?

Note to do Matt's guide you would use your cc or channel 3 which is your center plus subs
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post #56 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Are you using channel 4 to take measurements for the subs?

Note to do Matt's guide you would use your cc or channel 3 which is your center plus subs
Not sure what you mean here?
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post #57 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
Not sure what you mean here?
Sorry, let me back up. Are you using hdmi from the htpc to your avr? If yes, have you installed asio4all on Windows (allows rew to play sound through individual channels) and also loaded your mic calibration file in rew? (This and more can be found in the AustinJerry Rew guide)

What I'm getting at is the variation in your measurements has me wondering if your rew setup is correct.
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post #58 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah, OK. I am HDMI from the HTPC to the receiver. I am outputting a bit stream signal via LAV Splitter. I have also loaded the 90 degree calibration file for my mic. I am using an UMIK-1 from Mini-DSP, not an individually calibrated mic from cross spectrum labs.

I have a feeling something isn't right, that's for sure.


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post #59 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 05:27 PM
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post #60 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...e=14&_k=bmflat

Post #275 - download and run through the guide. It will help a lot.
I will read that over, thanks!

I just tried some experiments. The short version is that when I have it cranked all the way up (or close enough anyway) my SPL meter was reading 120 (highest reading) with a test tone at a frequency that yesterday said ~110db. Also, its in the 120's its borderline painful in there

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