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post #61 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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post #62 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, so I am going to stop testing for today. I want to gather some info so I can hit it tomorrow and get these things really dialed in.

First question I have, I was turning down the mic to stop the clipping on the max SPL sweeps. I went from 8 to 6 to get it not clipping, should I go back and see if it clips at 7 or its not worth it?

Moving on to the receiver. Mine has a PWQ, should I set it to through? What should I have the speaker crossovers set to? I skimmed the MTG guide and I know it touches on it. I am planning on trying to read that and understand it before I dive in again. Any other general settings or tips etc I should know?


Thanks guys!

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post #63 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
5-200htz, with crossovers set to 200 on all channels



Nasty null in there.

Same graph, but to the range of the previous (non-SPL) chart.




Sean
That null around 120hz might be a sofa too close to the mic...
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post #64 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is how the mic is set up





The closest it is to the couch is about 10", but that is measuring down if that matters.


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post #65 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 07:20 PM
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If say read through the austingerry guide first. It's like 100+ pages of gold.
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post #66 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 07:24 PM
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I wonder if you're room is behaving like mine, the higher the spl, the higher the low end of the graph compared to frequencies 60 Hz or higher. Room gain (RG) increasing the low end. For me, it can make for a impressive graph but, little increase in tactile response (TR).

The reason I bring this up is because at those high spl, the crispness of the sounds suffers in my room. If I lower the low end a bit, the movies are nice a crisp on crashes and explosions with no loss in TR.
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post #67 of 98 Old 08-01-2016, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
I wonder if you're room is behaving like mine, the higher the spl, the higher the low end of the graph compared to frequencies 60 Hz or higher. Room gain (RG) increasing the low end. For me, it can make for a impressive graph but, little increase in tactile response (TR).

The reason I bring this up is because at those high spl, the crispness of the sounds suffers in my room. If I lower the low end a bit, the movies are nice a crisp on crashes and explosions with no loss in TR.
That makes a lot of sense since the roll off was sooner at lower spl. Keep in mind, I was just messing around to see how loud they can get, I won't really ever have them that high.

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post #68 of 98 Old 08-02-2016, 06:28 AM
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Is the x-axis on your graphs in log scale? It does not appear to be, which can make things look pretty funky...

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post #69 of 98 Old 08-02-2016, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Is the x-axis on your graphs in log scale? It does not appear to be, which can make things look pretty funky...
I have no idea?! I know enough about REW to be dangerous. Can you explain what this is, and how I can check/change it?

Thanks,
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post #70 of 98 Old 08-02-2016, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
I have no idea?! I know enough about REW to be dangerous. Can you explain what this is, and how I can check/change it?

Thanks,
Sean
You want the frequency scale to be logarithmic instead of linear since that's how we perceive sound. Take the note C for example, to go from C to C' is a change of 264hz, but to go from C' to C" is a change of 528hz, so the change of octave is not linear, but rather logarithmic.

I believe the setting for the scale in REW is in the top right options below "Preferences", but I don't remember the exact location and I don't have a copy on this computer... that should at least get you in the ballpark.
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post #71 of 98 Old 08-02-2016, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
Here is how the mic is set up





The closest it is to the couch is about 10", but that is measuring down if that matters.


Sean
this was exactly as mine was and i had a similar null at roughly the same frequency. try moving the mike 1 foot up and retest.. you might be surprised by the result.
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post #72 of 98 Old 08-02-2016, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partcrash View Post
this was exactly as mine was and i had a similar null at roughly the same frequency. try moving the mike 1 foot up and retest.. you might be surprised by the result.
Up as in vertical, or up as in closer to the screen? I guess I can try both.

Thank you guys for the help! Like I said I know the very basics of all of this, but as this is the first time I have had subs in basically forever, I have a lot to learn. Although I am pretty impressed with how it looked at a reasonable level.


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post #73 of 98 Old 08-02-2016, 01:10 PM
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up as in vertical... keep same distance from screen
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post #74 of 98 Old 08-03-2016, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, moved the mic and adjusted the gain just out of clipping.

Here was the baseline measurement vs the final


Final


A couple things to note, I think that the room gain idea from a few post up is definitely true. The changes from my earlier max spl chart to the baseline was just turning everything down.

Next thing I noticed is that when I bring in the mains it makes a CRAZY dip around 30htz lower than the crossover. So I had them set to 200htz, dips at 160, set to 100 dips at 80, and so on. So then I tried to run YAPO, and that made my beautiful response get all wavy and crazy. I ended up turning it all off, and re-adjusting everything to what I had it at before (or close) and called it a night.

Last up, I tried adjusting my delay and it only ever made it worse. I tried the rears first, set to 2ms (about 2' closer) and it dropped the upper frequency down, changed it to 4ms same thing but further down. I tried the fronts just to see, and it was pretty much the same.

After around 80 measurements I decided to call it a day. I am all ears for what I should try, or check, or whats wrong etc. I think I should try and use the receivers PEQ to fix that horrendous dip I get when I turn the mains on.

Thats all for now


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post #75 of 98 Old 08-03-2016, 07:47 PM
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Might want to flip the polarity on the subs (if you are at zero them try 180) to see if those dips go away
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post #76 of 98 Old 08-03-2016, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought of that. I tried it the other day when I only was running the subs and it made no difference. Also YAPO did not change the polarity of them. I can give it a shot though, wont hurt anything. Thanks for the suggestion.


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post #77 of 98 Old 08-03-2016, 10:03 PM
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Broke EF & eng-399 I-CLOps build

When I get these other two boxes finished up I'll stop by and see if can help out. The last graph looks really good though.
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post #78 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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When I get these other two boxes finished up I'll stop by and see if can help out. The last graph looks really good though.
You mean come by and enjoy them?! I am not gonna put you to work (again)! I agree the last graph looks pretty good to me. I am not really sure how much better I can really get it. What I want to sort out though is the big dip I get when turn on the mains. Looking at the chart it seems like I should be able to crossover at 100htz and have a nice smooth transition, but it make a big null at around 80htz when I try it.

Maybe I should try and sweep my mains only now and see how they do by themselves? My receiver does have a PEQ built in, not exactly sure how powerful it is but its something. Or should I try and set my crossover at 80 or 100 and readjust the subs only?


HELP!
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post #79 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 08:13 AM
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What I texted Sean this morning and will post here to is to try taking one of his back two subs and facing it forward instead of facing the back wall and run a REW sweep. Sean has one inuke 3,000 amp running these 4 subs and the one channel is the front and the 2nd is for the back so when changing the phase on the amp back subs there both out of phase instead of just one sub.

In my room the front 2-18's are one amp and the left 2-18's are on the 2nd inuke anp and same with the back so basically eack side of the subs in my room have there own amp for this reason to have complete control over phase and levels since my back sub box is corner loaded with two walls instead of just one like my right side nearfield box. I think its worth trying all Sean has to do switch a box in the back so the sub is facing the front and the other one is facing the back and see what the rew sweep looks like. It should only take a few mins unless the pre cut speaker wire is a custom length from the box to the wall on his setup. If there's enough speaker wire then it should take a min. to do. Please let me know this turns out. When I fixed the phase in my room I gained a lot more db.

Mike
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post #80 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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unless the pre cut speaker wire is a custom length from the box to the wall on his setup.
You know it is!



This is the font left wire, but they are all custom made for each box. I think I have a spare connector, so I can make up a long test cable though.


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post #81 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 09:38 AM
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post #82 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Re the dip:. Does the avr have double bass turned on maybe?
Not that I know of. The speakers were set to small, so I don't think I can have double bass turned on in that situation. When I ran YAPO it set them to large, but I still don't think it turned on double bass. That graph was so bad though that a dip around the crossover point was the least of my worries. The OCD'ness in me wants to get my front three speakers so I know I am not chasing my tail fixing a problem I wont have with the larger speakers.

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post #83 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 12:34 PM
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I may have missed it but, have you done a graph with all the speakers and sub?
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post #84 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 12:57 PM
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If double bass is not on, then the mains are not causing any cancellation when they are on. If the dip is just through the crossover region, then your subwoofer delays likely aren't optimised. Setting the delays per Matt's guide is the answer.

Side note:
Your avr likely calls it "distance" but the actual distance in feet the subs are to your mlp is irrelevant. You adjust the subwoofer distances either in the avr or in the inukes until you get the flattest integration through the crossover region.
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post #85 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
I may have missed it but, have you done a graph with all the speakers and sub?
I have, but I didn't post it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
If double bass is not on, then the mains are not causing any cancellation when they are on. If the dip is just through the crossover region, then your subwoofer delays likely aren't optimised. Setting the delays per Matt's guide is the answer.

Side note:
Your avr likely calls it "distance" but the actual distance in feet the subs are to your mlp is irrelevant. You adjust the subwoofer distances either in the avr or in the inukes until you get the flattest integration through the crossover region.
I followed his guide, and the only changes I would see is a lowering of the upper range. Lets say from 80-200 (Just guessing/throwing out some numbers), but I first added a 2ms delay to the rears (which are 2.25' closer to MLP) and that dropped that range a few db. I adjusted to 4ms and it dropped the same range another few db. I set it back to 0 and tried adding delay to the fronts. I added the same 2ms then 4ms and saw about the same drops. Now mind you that section was already the low part of the curve, so losing db there seemed backwards to me.

I saved pretty much all of my sweeps, and kept notes, so I can post whatever you guys would like to see if it helps. I thought about this the other day, but forgot about it yesterday, but I think I should set both subs to 0 ft in the AVR and try adjusting delay in the inuke only. Seems like a better way of going about it. What do you guys think?!


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post #86 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright boys and girls, I am ready to start measuring again. Just took down ALL of my setting for everything, and I am going to run a new baseline. First up I pretty much just cleared out the AVR settings. Made sure the PEQ is off, levels are matched, distances are correct for speakers and 1' (minimum) for subs. I am going to sweep subs only and see what it looks like before I clear out the iNuke settings.

First question of the night, do I play with the delay first or start flipping speakers around first?! @eng-399 , @corradizo , @derrickdj1 you all better get in here!!!!


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post #87 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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First sweeps!

All speakers on, with subs 5-200htz sweep


Subs only


Interesting to see my 120-ish htz null is back today. I am going to check the mic placement.


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post #88 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 04:23 PM
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Broke EF & eng-399 I-CLOps build

If it was me start to see what sounds best. Flip the back right sub so the sub is facing your bar. Setup a test tone on rew on the generator at let's say 50hz. Play it at 75db and then flip the sub and see if it sounds like your getting more output from it being placed that way or just do a rew sweep and see what looks better. Do one first with it the way it is now then flip the sub take a sweep and post the graph. This is with all subs going btw.

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post #89 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 04:26 PM
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Broke EF & eng-399 I-CLOps build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
First sweeps!



All speakers on, with subs 5-200htz sweep





Subs only





Interesting to see my 120-ish htz null is back today. I am going to check the mic placement.





Sean


Make sure the mic isn't next to the head rest of your chair. Have forward a little tux has pointed this out before when running sweeps in the room.
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post #90 of 98 Old 08-04-2016, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, so I moved the mic up. Its about 18-20" from the couch at its closest. I flipped the rear left sub forward and it helped a little on the top end. Only about 1db or so for most of it.

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