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post #1 of 51 Old 08-14-2016, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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DIY center channel kit questions and info

Hi guys so im thinking of doing a build for a new center channel speaker, ive never done a build before but between me and my buddies we shouldn't have a problem building from a kit.

so im looking to get a kit or something to build a center channel. looking for a price range around under 300 closer to 250 or less really, i have found some decent center channel's on sale or marketed down for b grade etc, but im hoping that i can build one from a kit that would be better.

so im looking for some suggestions and other ideas.

Thanks, smile
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post #2 of 51 Old 08-14-2016, 09:28 PM
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look at the big driver, big horn two way designs very popular.

search for econowave, cheap thrills for ideas.

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post #3 of 51 Old 08-14-2016, 10:23 PM
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SOME INFO REQUIRED ,

WRT SPACE AVAIALBE , AVR, EQ,

FOR MY .02, THE diysg 88 sPECIAL , solid performer, 15" SEOS horn, Loud, clear
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post #4 of 51 Old 08-14-2016, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
SOME INFO REQUIRED ,

WRT SPACE AVAIALBE , AVR, EQ,

FOR MY .02, THE diysg 88 sPECIAL , solid performer, 15" SEOS horn, Loud, clear
that looks cool/fun

fairly small area, 7.1 soon to be 7.2.2 atmos most likely with the denon x4200, atm avr 890. on the large end is just fine. equal use music and movies.
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post #5 of 51 Old 08-15-2016, 03:25 AM
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DIYSG "88"

easy build for the CNC box,

xo, iirc, no circuit board but you'll get all the help you need
a shorter height lets you maybe get it to where it's on the same plane as the L/R horizontally
got any pics of the set up so far?
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post #6 of 51 Old 08-15-2016, 09:26 AM
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Typically DIY Sound Group has the best kits available for this. I would look at both the Fusion and Cinema Line Series. All of these are great speakers. Take a look at them and see if they would work in your application. If this is going behind an acoustically transparent screen, the Fusion 10's are a great option or if you could squeeze a little more out of your budget the 1099's. But if you have a strict budget and want a standard sized/look center channel speaker, then take a look at the Fusion 8 center. They are a great speaker and fit within your budget.
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post #7 of 51 Old 08-15-2016, 12:54 PM
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What are your main speakers?

Like Al Toid said, The Fusion-8 Alchemy Center is what I'll be ordering shortly (along with two Cinema-8 speakers for L/R). However, they are out of stock at the moment. The Center and the Cinema-8 (and I imagine other speakers using that 8" PA driver) are going through an update for a new driver, maybe some crossover tweaks. Erich said he'd have the new drivers this week and be able to send them off for new design/measurements once he gets them. If all you want is the center, he might be able to accommodate that with his current supply.
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post #8 of 51 Old 08-15-2016, 03:24 PM
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If you like the 88 Special, there is one listed for sale at DIYSG forum.
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post #9 of 51 Old 08-16-2016, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a bunch, ya i think the center channel on would work out a bit better size wise because of what else is going to around it.

Now on to the next thing ive done some looking around and now i need to build some acoustic treatment stuff, im thinking of building some panels i have found some stuff. do you guys have some links for cheap materials mostly just the treatment stuff not the fabric to go over, and im also wondering if maybe just some foam treatments put in a few spots around the room would work better or just as good and cost me less, there were some 12x12 foams that were not to expensive on amazon i was thinking of using , then maybe build a bass trap.
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post #10 of 51 Old 08-16-2016, 05:49 PM
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finding OC 703 out amongst the general public is tough,

Amazon has a good price but the shipping could be prohibitive, wrt cost per ft^2

At HD or Lowes, the Roxul safe 'n sound is a great product and value to work with, I've gone thru 3 bundles.

using the 3" thick stuff in a frame 3" off the wall using a nominal AT fabric, win-win,

for my AT fabrics I've used use various voile curtain stuff from Walmart, Target, even Big Lots

but I'm not fighting any WAF
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post #11 of 51 Old 08-16-2016, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
finding OC 703 out amongst the general public is tough,

Amazon has a good price but the shipping could be prohibitive, wrt cost per ft^2

At HD or Lowes, the Roxul safe 'n sound is a great product and value to work with, I've gone thru 3 bundles.

using the 3" thick stuff in a frame 3" off the wall using a nominal AT fabric, win-win,

for my AT fabrics I've used use various voile curtain stuff from Walmart, Target, even Big Lots

but I'm not fighting any WAF
Ya i looked at the roxul , i think im going to go that route and then make the frames and all that, looks like a nice easy project im sure i can get some fun colors too, and will look better then the foams.
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post #12 of 51 Old 08-17-2016, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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i dig everything on the diy site, atm im being drawn to the 893 over the fusion-8 alc center but only because it says 35hz ported, could i just port the alc8 and end up similar effect possibly?

also im still gonna grab some foam's for the ceiling figure i should treat all areas here.
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post #13 of 51 Old 08-17-2016, 10:58 AM
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This thread has a bunch of great information on making your own DIY Acoustic Panels. They even show you how to make custom prints/movie posters to cover them. You can really make your theater look sharp, if you want.
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post #14 of 51 Old 08-17-2016, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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This thread has a bunch of great information on making your own DIY Acoustic Panels. They even show you how to make custom prints/movie posters to cover them. You can really make your theater look sharp, if you want.
awesome that is a much fuller build breakdown than the one i had found earlier for the panels.
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post #15 of 51 Old 08-17-2016, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
finding OC 703 out amongst the general public is tough,

Amazon has a good price but the shipping could be prohibitive, wrt cost per ft^2

At HD or Lowes, the Roxul safe 'n sound is a great product and value to work with, I've gone thru 3 bundles.

using the 3" thick stuff in a frame 3" off the wall using a nominal AT fabric, win-win,

for my AT fabrics I've used use various voile curtain stuff from Walmart, Target, even Big Lots

but I'm not fighting any WAF
For the frames does it get a backing of any sort or is it just open on both sides ?
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post #16 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 10:10 AM
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I've used a tightly stretched layer of the voile material on the back side for "fiber containment" ,
may also help wrt preventing shifting, sag, etc.

I'll find some of my pics

The blue panel I posted is 6" thick but the 4 sides are also open, think building as if with an erector set with some blocks at the centerlines and corners to make it just stabile enough to staple material and stuff and not shift, etc.

FTR those blue panels were also to block light over the 4 westward windows, so I used a solid piece of 5/16th plywood specifically for that.

the red atmos cloud has only one frame on top to staple material to but that is a 5" composite of 2" of 703, for stiffness, topped with the roxul.

get inspired

somewhere I have a picture of my first empty box of staples, there used to be 5,000 in it . . .

i'm just sayin' . . .

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post #17 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by smilejedimind View Post
Hi guys so im thinking of doing a build for a new center channel speaker, ive never done a build before but between me and my buddies we shouldn't have a problem building from a kit....
This is a bad place to ask that question. Folks here have (and will) recommend a very specialized portion of the speaker design universe to any and all who ask. One-size-fits-all suggestions are a sure sign of bad advice.

My advice is to attend a DIY speaker event, and listen to the entered designs, talk with their designers, and find out what sounds good to your ears. Taste really does vary. People listen for different things from a speaker. What makes one cry with happiness makes another cringe. My first time, I learned that "the best speakers disappear."

No speaker designs suggested thus far comes close to meeting that criterion. That doesn't mean they're "bad" speakers, just designed to a different taste that I do not prefer. Only your ears can tell you what sounds good to you.

Barring that, try asking on other audio forums, to see what they think, and checking out a wider range of options. Here's the master list.
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...peaker-designs

Have fun,
Frank
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post #18 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 02:58 PM
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Frank,

You should let us know what center channel speaker kits you like. Or if there aren't any, let us know what it is that you would like to see.

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post #19 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 04:08 PM
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No speaker designs suggested thus far comes close to meeting that criterion. That doesn't mean they're "bad" speakers, just designed to a different taste that I do not prefer. Only your ears can tell you what sounds good to you.
That's odd,

The guy asked for a speaker KIT priced between 250 and 300 bucks, he has never built a speaker before but has a few buddies to help. The answer provided was for many, many speaker kits from DIY Sound Group...if you looked at them, there are dozens of kits that would work.

Co-axials, concentrics, dome/woofer 2-ways, 2 and 3-way speakers with horns etc. Multiple designers were involved in making the kits be they several Dayton 4" woofers and dome tweeter all the way up to dual 18" 3-way monsters for home theater in a barn.

Think about the speaker he is asking for....a very, very specific speaker if there ever was one. It's tough to recommend a center to a person when you don't know what their mains are etc. I always default to very efficient speakers as it is easy to turn them down but an inefficient center can't be turned up to match a pair of Klipsch Heresy speakers. The guy is running an AVR so the efficiency will help keep all the channels fed properly.

The guy has never built a speaker before, wants a kit at a specific price and it would be good to have people answer questions or provide guidance during his build. The DIY SG stuff is a great place to start, they have their own forum, videos and plenty of people to provide answers to any question he may have. Heck, he can get the crossovers built for him if need be so no fear of screwing up what to most people is rather confusing.

I built my first clean sheet speaker 6 years ago--it was a center channel. Basically, a 2.5 way with XO's at 550Hz and 1.85 KHz with a monster 30mm dome tweeter and four 5.25" mid-woofers. Quite a few of my friends love the ability to hear the spoken word and wanted one...I know the compromises it took to cram all that in a limited space to fit inside existing furniture. Told them it is a custom built one off and the mid-woofers are out of production.

One of the problems with people building speakers be it car audio, PA systems, home speakers or cinema speakers is it's harder to do that it seems on the surface. It is best to start with a kit, watch videos, do some reading and ask all the questions before starting. Having the availability of a flatpack and pre-done boards removes the guess work and should help ensure you don't fry your electronics from making errors.

If you really want options, go to a forum called DIY Audio.... everything from build your own amps to reverse engineering Synergy horns and playing around with electrostatics and full range back loaded horns.

Here is another option if you like traditional MTM type centers with dome tweeters.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...enham-kit.html

$197 including the baffle board for mounting the drivers but you'll have to build the box yourself.

Gotta start somewhere and a kit is the best way to get your feet wet. Never know, you might be building some pretty crazy stuff in the future so beware of falling down the rabbit hole.
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post #20 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fbov View Post
This is a bad place to ask that question. Folks here have (and will) recommend a very specialized portion of the speaker design universe to any and all who ask. One-size-fits-all suggestions are a sure sign of bad advice.

My advice is to attend a DIY speaker event, and listen to the entered designs, talk with their designers, and find out what sounds good to your ears. Taste really does vary. People listen for different things from a speaker. What makes one cry with happiness makes another cringe. My first time, I learned that "the best speakers disappear."

No speaker designs suggested thus far comes close to meeting that criterion. That doesn't mean they're "bad" speakers, just designed to a different taste that I do not prefer. Only your ears can tell you what sounds good to you.

Barring that, try asking on other audio forums, to see what they think, and checking out a wider range of options. Here's the master list.
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...peaker-designs

Have fun,
Frank
I can agree that it's a great idea to go and give as many DIY kit's an ear test before building, but for a lot of us it's just not possible. The OP stated a budget and that he wants to build a speaker. Some of the time it's not only about the results but the journey. I believe the OP is off to a great start by coming to AVS and asking for advice. This is where I started asking questions and boy is there some expert collective knowledge on this forum. I was led to DIYSoundgroup, built my Fusion 8's, and am absolutely enjoying them. These speakers disappear when I let them, and if you want, they will put you back in your seat. They are that good.
But, back on topic and to the OP - DIY SoundGroup. You won't go wrong. Erich won't let you!
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post #21 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 07:52 PM
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Frank,

You should let us know what center channel speaker kits you like. Or if there aren't any, let us know what it is that you would like to see.
You miss the point. What I like doesn't matter.

It's all about what the OP likes. Very few newcomers have a mature audio taste, so they are ill-prepared to choose among the tremendous variety of designs available. When responses only touch on a few, similar designs, some balance is required.
- post 2 recommends Econowave
- posts 3, 5 and 8 recommend 88 Special
- posts 6 and 7 recommend Fusion (and Cinema) series

The thread was batting a thousand, recommending a compression driver design every time. That's what I call an unbalanced response, and a great disservice to the OP given the breadth of what's available in the market.

Serving the OP's needs is the point.

Frank
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post #22 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 08:08 PM
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That's odd,...
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I can agree that...
Thank you, gentlemen, for proving my point about forum bias. See above; my comments are well founded and unbiased.
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post #23 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 08:19 PM
 
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Thank you, gentlemen, for proving my point about forum bias. See above; my comments are well founded and unbiased.
So provide some specific suggestions...with dome tweeters or whatever you think works well....am having trouble understanding what kits you could recommend for the OP that you like, or think he might like as an alternative.
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post #24 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the list there Fbov i appreciate it that was something i was also looking for in general but was not able to find yet also more resources to look over for ideas and such is great ! i do totally get what your saying with the shopping around bit to figure out what my ears like etc maybe go check out things at a show sort of thing etc .

However i really dont have the time or money to mess about to much. Although there are other places to can ask things and other kits etc, the answer's that were provided was pretty much what i was looking for. Since im unfamiliar with kits and such just knowing that the kit and products were of high quality parts support etc and diysound was really what i was looking for more or less.

My ears will see if they like the sound or not but i feel that going this route whether i truly like the sound or not is just fine atm rather then buying some klisph center that doesn't have the range or power / versatility of what will be possible from diysound. At this point in my audio maturity and my time and money situation i do think people here gave me pretty much the answers i was looking for.
Again i absolutely get the points that you brought up aswell.

i had actually looked over some 1899 builds before i had posted this tread, and i have found some great full explained build threads for the centers on diy im looking at which really makes me alot more comfortable with doing this sort of project and getting my feet wet.

I went to lowes tonight and got the roxul, glue etc, going to see if my grandfather has some wood i can use then go get some fabric. i tried walmart but wasnt seeing anything i liked, i did ask about the voile but no one had any idea, going to check out some the arts and crafts store or just try to internet.
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post #25 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 08:48 PM
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Let's get specific. I just installed a pair of Volt 6 speakers as surround speakers in a front-wide 7.1 MTM cone/dome HT (5 front, 2 side, no rear speakers). They replace Continuum TMs, which replaced a DIY Pluto clone. Clearly that's a wide range of directivity. My sense is that I've traded surround quality for power handling.

The Pluto clone had both low sensitivity and low power handling. +6dB for level match and -6dB in power handling is a bad combo. But they sound great! No sense of where the speaker is located unless you look at it and concentrate on the high frequencies.

Continuum is a design that can disappear. 3dB better sensitivity, 3dB better power handling, but still 6dB short of power matching all channels. I put them too close to the wall to work their best, but still a very good surround speaker.

Volt 6 has the sensitivity and power handling to match the MTMs. Audyssey agrees; all 7 speakers are now +/- 1dB. I can't locate the speaker when facing forward, as my ears are in line with it. Turn 45 degrees, toward the front-wide, and the surround effect is history, all sound comes from the rear corner. Face the speaker and I hear a "raspiness" that I only hear in horn tweeters, that's present in all but a few horns I've ever heard.
This is Factor #1 - you may not notice, or may prefer this raspiness while I don't.

Factor #2 is the loss of surround effect the moment both ears hear the speaker. This speaker is not capable of disappearing, no matter how it's placed in a room. This is common to ALL controlled directivity speakers; room acoustic independence has it's downside. Great dynamics, huge headroom and high SPL are real advantages, but there's no free lunch.

And since I've mentioned specific products, what I have described are the normal and expected characteristics of this driver combo. This is a VERY HIGH QUALITY product that does just what it's design to do.

But Volt 6 is still a poor choice for surround speakers for someone with my tastes in sound quality. I knew that when I bought them. They'll find another home when I get Continuum repaired (cone warped).

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #26 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fbov View Post
Let's get specific. I just installed a pair of Volt 6 speakers as surround speakers in a front-wide 7.1 MTM cone/dome HT (5 front, 2 side, no rear speakers). They replace Continuum TMs, which replaced a DIY Pluto clone. Clearly that's a wide range of directivity. My sense is that I've traded surround quality for power handling.

The Pluto clone had both low sensitivity and low power handling. +6dB for level match and -6dB in power handling is a bad combo. But they sound great! No sense of where the speaker is located unless you look at it and concentrate on the high frequencies.

Continuum is a design that can disappear. 3dB better sensitivity, 3dB better power handling, but still 6dB short of power matching all channels. I put them too close to the wall to work their best, but still a very good surround speaker.

Volt 6 has the sensitivity and power handling to match the MTMs. Audyssey agrees; all 7 speakers are now +/- 1dB. I can't locate the speaker when facing forward, as my ears are in line with it. Turn 45 degrees, toward the front-wide, and the surround effect is history, all sound comes from the rear corner. Face the speaker and I hear a "raspiness" that I only hear in horn tweeters, that's present in all but a few horns I've ever heard.
This is Factor #1 - you may not notice, or may prefer this raspiness while I don't.

Factor #2 is the loss of surround effect the moment both ears hear the speaker. This speaker is not capable of disappearing, no matter how it's placed in a room. This is common to ALL controlled directivity speakers; room acoustic independence has it's downside. Great dynamics, huge headroom and high SPL are real advantages, but there's no free lunch.

And since I've mentioned specific products, what I have described are the normal and expected characteristics of this driver combo. This is a VERY HIGH QUALITY product that does just what it's design to do.

But Volt 6 is still a poor choice for surround speakers for someone with my tastes in sound quality. I knew that when I bought them. They'll find another home when I get Continuum repaired (cone warped).

HAve fun,
Frank

Interesting yarr.

One thing i didnt get an answer on though is about porting that other center, could anyone help me out there.
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post #27 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 09:19 PM
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Nobody recommended the 893

The OP picked the 893

This proves he has the ability to look at the site, evaluate the offerings and went with a 3 way design with lower efficiency but with deeper more full range bass response. Heck, the 893 cost more than the 250 to 300 dollar limit but he likes 3-ways, the size and the more full range response and will spend extra to obtain that.

He probably looked at the other kits...they have dome tweeters, plenty of those kits are also available. I'd hazard to guess domes are not a priority. Maybe he wanted the very high power handling of the 893 because he is thinking of going outboard amplifiers in the future. Just because he is new to AVS or DIY does not mean he has no clue about speakers.

I've never heard mention of using a full range speaker with a few woofers thrown in to take the bass load off the full range. Some people really love that design and it is really, really easy to build.

Here are some dome tweeter kits from DIY SG

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...enham-kit.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...tango-kit.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker-kits/marksman.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...akers-kit.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...assix-kit.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...sensation.html

If you like dome and back horn loaded speaker kits, Madisound can hook you up! One of the reasons DIY SG is popular is they offer not just dome based smaller speakers but the larger and more efficient speakers as well. Google search is your friend!
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post #28 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 09:25 PM
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smilinjedi,
I've said enough about speakers... but you're already building acoustic panels. May I ask what problem you think it will fix?

I took me years to figure out why I didn't need to add acoustic panels to my room. It's hard to have acoustic issues in normally furnished residential spaces. Humans naturally decorate to about a 0.3 msec. decay time, which is close to ideal. And not all rooms have bass issues.

But the one place you can nearly always place an acoustic absorption panel is behind your speakers, using stand-offs a panel thickness long, so it's spaced away from the wall. This absorbs sound energy radiated toward the rear, which can bounce off the wall and cause dips in frequency response. See "Allison Effect."

Acoustics is another area where this forum goes off the rails. Recording studios are poor listening spaces.
If you're interested in the science behind all this, I recommend Toole.
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reprodu.../dp/0240520092

If you're interested in the How-to of it all, I recommend Everest, an online resource.
http://iribsupport.ir/Books/Acoustic..._acoustics.pdf

If you feel you have an issue, spend the money on a simple measurement rig, and do some testing to see how your room's acoustics measure. This is another area where you can learn a lot! Plus, it's half of what you need to design speakers!

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #29 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smilejedimind View Post
i dig everything on the diy site, atm im being drawn to the 893 over the fusion-8 alc center but only because it says 35hz ported, could i just port the alc8 and end up similar effect possibly?
The Fusion 8 is already ported.
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post #30 of 51 Old 08-18-2016, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasser View Post
The Fusion 8 is already ported.
the center chan one is ? i didnt read it in the des.
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