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post #121 of 276 Old 09-25-2016, 12:25 PM
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That's fine, point it to the mic cal file. Get asio going and always closed rew and reopen it. If you unplug the mic, same, close rew and reopen it. Get a weird girgle when measuring, same, close and reopen.

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post #122 of 276 Old 09-25-2016, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
That's fine, point it to the mic cal file. Get asio going and always closed rew and reopen it. If you unplug the mic, same, close rew and reopen it. Get a weird girgle when measuring, same, close and reopen.
But what input device do I pick?

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post #123 of 276 Old 09-25-2016, 12:47 PM
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In asio make sure your onboard mic is not lit green, hit the little arrows. Try whatever it calls it and see if it works.
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post #124 of 276 Old 09-25-2016, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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GOT IT, had to uninstall and reinstall the software for some reason. FYI the onboard mic was not active, and also if I would have scrolled down a bit more there was trouble shooting for this exact problem! I didn't actually read it, but it probably has a solution.

Sean
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post #125 of 276 Old 09-25-2016, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I am abandoning the ASIO drivers, I cant get sound out of them for some reason. Back to JAVA!!!!!
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post #126 of 276 Old 09-25-2016, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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And here is the first full sweep following the guide. This is 1/6th smoothing as recommended in the guide.

AVR is -5.0
Subs are 0 in AVR
iNuke is 6 clicks down from full for both channels
All speakers set to small and crossed over at 120htz
All prior iNuke EQ settings still remain.




Sean
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post #127 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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OK guys, I didn't really get much more done past taking the measurement posted above. Yes @corradizo that means I have not yet gotten to the method you posted about. My questions at this point are what to do next really? Should I follow the guide that corradizo posted, should I follow the standard sub set up procedure?

Looking at my chart, what does everyone think? Look OK, look like garbage? The subs seem really hot when compared to the rest of the range, but I also know that they should be a bit louder. How much louder, and at what frequency I don't really know to be honest. What can I do about that sub 20htz hump which is all room gain (and carries to about 5htz)? DIY acoustic treatments are on my short list of things to do, looking at the chart is this something I should move up the list and do sooner?

Basically I believe I have everything set up properly as far as REW, and I have taken a "baseline" measurement (still have inuke EQ settings in place) and don't really know what my next step should be. I am happy with how my room sounds with movies now, but I want it to be the best sounding it can be.


Thanks,
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P.S. Music still sounds like **** even though moving the crossover bumped up my mid-bass. To further prove my point we listened to a song that was all 30-40htz at my buddies house, he can reach about 110db in that range, I can get 120+db. Sounded insane in his room, still sounded very weak in my room.
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post #128 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 06:25 AM
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Graph looks good, I personally cant think of ANYTHING else that makes sense... so lets try something that maybe doesnt lol... the only random thought that pops into my head is this.

Have you tried adding something like a Art Pro Cleanbox to your setup between the Yamaha and the iNuke? Could it be a voltage mismatch that is causing you to increase the gain on your iNuke, or maybe even a dirty signal issue?

Somewhere I SWEAR I read something about that with Yamahas having an issue providing enough voltage to the iNukes, but I could be wrong... I know Denon's and Marantz don't have a problem with pro amps, but maybe your Yamaha does?

I can't explain why this pops into my head, but maybe try one cause 1: its cheap and 2: Amazon takes anything back right .

Worst case I'm wrong and you have to return it and wasted some time... best case it clears things up and I'm your hero

PS Dont ask me to really rationalize this, its just what my head is telling me to try cause I think you've tried about everything else.
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post #129 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Graph looks good, I personally cant think of ANYTHING else that makes sense... so lets try something that maybe doesnt lol... the only random thought that pops into my head is this.

Have you tried adding something like a Art Pro Cleanbox to your setup between the Yamaha and the iNuke? Could it be a voltage mismatch that is causing you to increase the gain on your iNuke, or maybe even a dirty signal issue?

Somewhere I SWEAR I read something about that with Yamahas having an issue providing enough voltage to the iNukes, but I could be wrong... I know Denon's and Marantz don't have a problem with pro amps, but maybe your Yamaha does?

I can't explain why this pops into my head, but maybe try one cause 1: its cheap and 2: Amazon takes anything back right .

Worst case I'm wrong and you have to return it and wasted some time... best case it clears things up and I'm your hero

PS Dont ask me to really rationalize this, its just what my head is telling me to try cause I think you've tried about everything else.

If I hear you right, what you're saying is that I need to get a Denon or Marantz receiver. Something that supports 4K, has Atmos, and has Audyssey, along side other features and benefits that would be nice to have. Got it Ill point the wife to this post when the time comes.

Sean
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post #130 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 06:51 AM
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Imo, the AJ guide helps you get going and get comfortable with rew. Sounds like you are good there.

Next, I suggest clearing out your eq and distance settings for your subs (write it all down so you can put it back if needed) and read through all the way first then try it, the @mtg90 guide https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...1713458?page=1

The thing I posted before will come into play in step 7 of Matt's guide, when it is time to globally eq your subs before step 8 where you integrate them with your mains.
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post #131 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
If I hear you right, what you're saying is that I need to get a Denon or Marantz receiver. Something that supports 4K, has Atmos, and has Audyssey, along side other features and benefits that would be nice to have. Got it Ill point the wife to this post when the time comes.

Sean
You think like I do lol... but BEFORE you go down that road, lets ensure it will be the right one by verifying its a voltage/signal problem, which only costs 65 bucks to test lol.....

From your first post you mentioned having everything maxed and still wanting more, I'm wondering if it is that your AVR cant fully drive the iNuke so even though your volume is maxed, your really only using 1/2 the amps potential....

Again I am grasping at straws and this one hit me during my 1st MD of the day, which is when my brain is waking up lol

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post #132 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
You think like I do lol... but BEFORE you go down that road, lets ensure it will be the right one by verifying its a voltage/signal problem, which only costs 65 bucks to test lol.....

From your first post you mentioned having everything maxed and still wanting more, I'm wondering if it is that your AVR cant fully drive the iNuke so even though your volume is maxed, your really only using 1/2 the amps potential....

Again I am grasping at straws and this one hit me during my 1st MD of the day, which is when my brain is waking up lol
If you have seen the red lights flicker before you should be fine. Alternatively you can play a 60hz tone and measure your sub outputs (RCA) voltage at the back of the reciever (careful not to short it, or the new avr might be a must have..hehe). The inuke only needs .775v to provide full output is my understanding.
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post #133 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
If I hear you right, what you're saying is that I need to get a Denon or Marantz receiver. Something that supports 4K, has Atmos, and has Audyssey, along side other features and benefits that would be nice to have. Got it Ill point the wife to this post when the time comes.

Sean

Actually, I think that would be a very good idea, although I never would have suggested it, as I hesitate to encourage other people to spend money unless they ask. But now, you can quote this post too. Audyssey XT-32 should help a lot to smooth your frequency response in the modal region, and it goes down to 10Hz, so it should be able to pull down that <20Hz bump.

Room treatments (bass traps) could be very helpful in that mid-bass region. Like everyone else, I'm about out of ideas, but the room itself could almost certainly be a factor in the overall bass response. And thick bass traps can help down to about 60Hz, or sometimes a little lower (although not enough to notice below about 40Hz).

Your ultimate solution to get really good sound, for both movies and music, may very well be a combination of better front speakers, room treatments, and DEQ. FWIW, each of those ingredients incrementally improved my sound quality. But, it took me a while to get there. Now, I just spend money on more subs.
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post #134 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Imo, the AJ guide helps you get going and get comfortable with rew. Sounds like you are good there.

Next, I suggest clearing out your eq and distance settings for your subs (write it all down so you can put it back if needed) and read through all the way first then try it, the @mtg90 guide https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...1713458?page=1

The thing I posted before will come into play in step 7 of Matt's guide, when it is time to globally eq your subs before step 8 where you integrate them with your mains.
I was already pretty comfortable with it, but going though it again helped understand a couple things for sure. I kind of wish I could get those drivers working so I could more easily sweep with each channel. I am sure a global crossover point doesn't make sense considering I run towers and a large center. I will mess with that and see if I can get it working soon.

I do have all of my settings saved (written down, and pictures/screen grabs) so no worries there. Plus there really isnt much to clear out, no distance settings, no delay, and only 4 or 5 EQ settings mainly trying to tame that sub 20htz bump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
You think like I do lol... but BEFORE you go down that road, lets ensure it will be the right one by verifying its a voltage/signal problem, which only costs 65 bucks to test lol.....

From your first post you mentioned having everything maxed and still wanting more, I'm wondering if it is that your AVR cant fully drive the iNuke so even though your volume is maxed, your really only using 1/2 the amps potential....

Again I am grasping at straws and this one hit me during my 1st MD of the day, which is when my brain is waking up lol
Well I already want to change receivers to gain ATMOS, and native 4K ability, plus I think a large part of my "problem" is how it processes the 2 channel info vs multi channel. I may try and borrow a Denon from a friend (a few friends have Denon's) and see what that gets me. I really think that RTA of the two channel vs 7 channel shows the problem. It wasn't a song that really bumped, but it was significantly less so when it was the 2 channel file.

I remember seeing something about the output of Yamaha's sub outs. I think I saw it in reference to the MiniDSP, but I would assume it would apply here as well. It would still have to tie into how Yamaha processes 2 channel vs multi channel though since I can get a satisfying amount of bass with movies. However, I think it would explain why I have the inuke almost all the way up at times. Seems like that should be too much power for the subs (I have no limiter set).

Also, I have wondered if 120db is really all I should get out of these 4 subs. I was measuring 110db with a single sub wired at 8 ohm. Just a random rambling thought that popped inn my head. Can I check some voltages or something to see if I am getting enough input into the amp, or enough output out of it?


Sean
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post #135 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
So I am first following along with the famous AustinJerry step by step guide for REW, and I hit a snag. I am configuring the drivers, and I can set all of the output stuff correctly, but when I go to set the input device I only have HD Audio Line input 1 and HD Audio Line input 2. If I change back to Java I get the UMIK-1 as an option. Also when I select ASIO for the device it asks about using the UMIK-1 calibration file. HELP!


Sean
I had that problem on and off for the last year. The only thing that was able to get it working for me was switching from the RealTek drivers on my PC to the intel HD audio drivers. Even after that it was still finicky. Ultimately I jut got frustrated with it and left it alone.
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post #136 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
I was already pretty comfortable with it, but going though it again helped understand a couple things for sure. I kind of wish I could get those drivers working so I could more easily sweep with each channel. I am sure a global crossover point doesn't make sense considering I run towers and a large center. I will mess with that and see if I can get it working soon.

I do have all of my settings saved (written down, and pictures/screen grabs) so no worries there. Plus there really isnt much to clear out, no distance settings, no delay, and only 4 or 5 EQ settings mainly trying to tame that sub 20htz bump.



Well I already want to change receivers to gain ATMOS, and native 4K ability, plus I think a large part of my "problem" is how it processes the 2 channel info vs multi channel. I may try and borrow a Denon from a friend (a few friends have Denon's) and see what that gets me. I really think that RTA of the two channel vs 7 channel shows the problem. It wasn't a song that really bumped, but it was significantly less so when it was the 2 channel file.

I remember seeing something about the output of Yamaha's sub outs. I think I saw it in reference to the MiniDSP, but I would assume it would apply here as well. It would still have to tie into how Yamaha processes 2 channel vs multi channel though since I can get a satisfying amount of bass with movies. However, I think it would explain why I have the inuke almost all the way up at times. Seems like that should be too much power for the subs (I have no limiter set).

Also, I have wondered if 120db is really all I should get out of these 4 subs. I was measuring 110db with a single sub wired at 8 ohm. Just a random rambling thought that popped inn my head. Can I check some voltages or something to see if I am getting enough input into the amp, or enough output out of it?


Sean
I didn't mention a global crossover, I said global eq. Like eq all the subs together after you get the delays set.
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post #137 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't mention a global crossover, I said global eq. Like eq all the subs together after you get the delays set.
I know you didn't I was speaking more generally. From what I can see you can run each individual channel with the other drivers, vs only the front L/R speakers with the Java drivers. To me it would make sense to eventually sweep each channel and set the crossover for that channel to match with the subs as best as it can. I realize that the surrounds don't get much LFE (if any) but why not try to blend them as best as you can? Probably not needed, but the receiver can cross each channel separate from the others, so why not dial them all in as perfect as you can?


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post #138 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 02:53 PM
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Nothing wrong with using a global XO. I have a Pioneer Elite avr and they all use global XO. In setting things up, never go lower than 20 Hz from what autocalibration set the XO. When the surround are not playing real low and delivering a lot of bass, that is a positive thing. When they produce a lot of bass, it contributes to the standing wave problem in the room.

I also set my 60 lb center to small along with the towers and surrounds. Everything XO at 80 Hz.

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post #139 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 02:58 PM
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I agree, I can set my crossovers per speaker but try to keep the lcr the same since the subs only have one delay setting.
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post #140 of 276 Old 09-26-2016, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Have you tried adding something like a Art Pro Cleanbox to your setup between the Yamaha and the iNuke? Could it be a voltage mismatch that is causing you to increase the gain on your iNuke, or maybe even a dirty signal issue?

Somewhere I SWEAR I read something about that with Yamahas having an issue providing enough voltage to the iNukes, but I could be wrong... I know Denon's and Marantz don't have a problem with pro amps, but maybe your Yamaha does?

That shouldn't apply here. He says with movies the subs "blow his doors open", so he's got enough voltage going to the amp:


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Kind of a weird problem/question, but I have very little bass when listening to music on my system. With movies it will literally blow my doors open, with music its like I have no subs.
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post #141 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
And here is the first full sweep following the guide. This is 1/6th smoothing as recommended in the guide.

AVR is -5.0
Subs are 0 in AVR
iNuke is 6 clicks down from full for both channels
All speakers set to small and crossed over at 120htz
All prior iNuke EQ settings still remain.

Sean
I know you said you had played with delays to try and bring up the FR over the crossover and were unsuccessful. However, if there is any way you could bring that portion of the FR up, I believe you will hear a pretty big difference in the sound...I would even go so far to say "night and day" difference.

Take a look at what the "optimal" curve (IMO) would be below...it is literally a 10dB difference at 100hz. Whether or not this will help with your music issue is unknown, but I am certain it would help the overall sound.

Are you adjusting distances (delays) in the iNukes or in your AVR? I know nothing about your amps, but if you are adjusting in the AVR, make sure that you back out of the distance menu or the changes will not take effect (on most AVRs).
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post #142 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I know you said you had played with delays to try and bring up the FR over the crossover and were unsuccessful. However, if there is any way you could bring that portion of the FR up, I believe you will hear a pretty big difference in the sound...I would even go so far to say "night and day" difference.

Take a look at what the "optimal" curve (IMO) would be below...it is literally a 10dB difference at 100hz. Whether or not this will help with your music issue is unknown, but I am certain it would help the overall sound.

Are you adjusting distances (delays) in the iNukes or in your AVR? I know nothing about your amps, but if you are adjusting in the AVR, make sure that you back out of the distance menu or the changes will not take effect (on most AVRs).
I need to look at delays again, just haven't gotten around to it yet. When I did it, I tried it in the inuke and the receiver and got similar results. When I do it this time I will post up graphs showing what it looks like and what/how I changed things.

Sean
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post #143 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 11:52 AM
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Haven't read the whole thread, but could it just be that you're too much of a basshead? When I listen to music the way Audyssey has calibrated my system, I don't get any bass, although the frequency sweep is fairly flat. For music I just bump my sub 8dB hotter than reference and also use the
iNukes DEQ function to further increase the bass. It's then i feel i get "normal" amount of bass for music. For movies I can just leave everything flat and get loads of bass. Maybe you should just try turning up the sub level in AVR like 10dB and try some music?
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post #144 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Haven't read the whole thread, but could it just be that you're too much of a basshead? When I listen to music the way Audyssey has calibrated my system, I don't get any bass, although the frequency sweep is fairly flat. For music I just bump my sub 8dB hotter than reference and also use the
iNukes DEQ function to further increase the bass. It's then i feel i get "normal" amount of bass for music. For movies I can just leave everything flat and get loads of bass. Maybe you should just try turning up the sub level in AVR like 10dB and try some music?
Been there, done that, then started a thread about having no bass


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post #145 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
And here is the first full sweep following the guide. This is 1/6th smoothing as recommended in the guide.

AVR is -5.0
Subs are 0 in AVR
iNuke is 6 clicks down from full for both channels
All speakers set to small and crossed over at 120htz
All prior iNuke EQ settings still remain.




Sean
Have you tried applying the sub distance tweak? your mains are xo at 120hz and it shouldn't be rolling off at 60hz so steeply.
Go into your avr and ADD 1ft to your sub distance. Then measure, then keep adding until the curve shifts up.
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post #146 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 03:27 PM
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^^^

OP said he was going to try tweaking the distance just 3 posts up.
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post #147 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

OP said he was going to try tweaking the distance just 3 posts up.
Thanks, I totally missed that!

Here's my suggestion then - if Op is not happy with music bass, then DIY a pa460. It's insane, especially for 30hz+ output. You'll need 3-4 1260's to match it.
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post #148 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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What AlanP said, but I do have some questions about that. I probably should measure this to A. make sure I am saying the right thing, and B. show you what I am talking about, but I digress. If I measure my subs alone, I wont see that roll off you see in that chart. If I shift my crossover around it will move that roll off accordingly. I have see that from the get go, and always thought it was odd. I pretty much just ignored it since I knew I was going to change the mains sooner or later anyway, but what gives?! Why do I get that when I bring in my mains?


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post #149 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Lets post graphs!!!!


These are all baseline, all the same settings (other than turning off one set of subs vs the other). I still have my EQ settings in the inuke too.











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post #150 of 276 Old 09-27-2016, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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After 25 measurements, no improvement. Adding delay only brings everything down. I tried phase, phase + delay, delay, delay fronts, delay rears, lots of delay, little delay. At one point I thought I was on to something, kept working my way down in .10 increments only to find that I was working my way back to a setting that I had already measured, and was worse than no delay. Looks like all I got at this point is EQ to work with.


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