Slot Ported Nearfield MBM w/ PA460 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Slot Ported Nearfield MBM w/ PA460

Not necessarily sure what I was thinking, but a week or so ago, I came across some PartsExpress.com coupons. Though I'm not generally an impulse buyer, I decided to pull the trigger on two Dayton PA-460s. I'd been eyeing these for use as a nearfield sub. I was initially looking at getting the Behringer B1200D-PRO for placement behind my seats.

I've been following the Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response Thread, which has some great info on the tactile response from using nearfield ported subs as an MBM. The B1200D is going for around $300. However, I figured that for that price, I could DIY something instead.

Since I don't have the space for the VBSS, I reached out to @mtg90 , to see if I could do a shallower version of the VBSS. He suggested that I do a shallower slot ported enclosure, which isn't really the VBSS design (and which wouldn't need EQ adjustments, just a HPF). Nevertheless, I decided to give it a shot. With the help of @mtg90 and @LTD02 , below are the dimensions I was planning on using for making two separate enclosures.



Here is a rudimentary mockup from @LTD02 :



Since I had leftover wood from my two Modified Cyclops/Skinny Marty build, I had to modify the above dimensions slighly by adding .5" to the height and subtracting .5" from the width. I don't believe there will be an appreciable difference with the slight modification. The dimensions for the modified version are below:



I started building these bad boys over the weekend and hope to have them finished shortly. I'll have a tall order getting these integrated with the rest of the subs in my room, but for the price I couldn't resist.




I plan on powering these two subs with an iNuke 1000DSP wired in parallel.

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Last edited by VicTorious1; 11-14-2016 at 01:04 PM.
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post #2 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 04:17 PM
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man, you have been busy! lol

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post #3 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 04:32 PM
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You have been busy like Brian's saying. I like the box size having the depth at 14.5" inches it makes the placement of these easier to manage in your room. Having these nearfield while Gun shots are going off from movies and explosions are going to sound and feel great in your chairs. It really brings the movie to life.
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post #4 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been pretty busy. Trying to get these things and the cyclopses finished and painted this week so the carpet can go in next week. Each weekend my wife keeps asking when I'll be done cutting MDF. Our driveway is caked with the sawdust.
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post #5 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
You have been busy like Brian's saying. I like the box size having the depth at 14.5" inches it makes the placement of these easier to manage in your room. Having these nearfield while Gun shots are going off from movies and explosions are going to sound and feel great in your chairs. It really brings the movie to life.
I'm looking forward to getting them dialed in. How have you integrated your MBMs? Do they overlap with your subs or are they handling a discrete frequency range.
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post #6 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 05:45 PM
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What frequency will they be tuned for?

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post #7 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
What frequency will they be tuned for?
Looks to be around 40hz

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post #8 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
What frequency will they be tuned for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Looks to be around 40hz
That's correct. I was initially going to have the port be about 2" - 2.25" height for around a 30-33hz tune, but I opted for the slightly higher tuning. I am creating a port plug out of MDF that can shorten the width of the port and lower the tuning to about 33 Hz.
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post #9 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 07:27 PM
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Slot Ported Nearfield MBM w/ PA460

Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
I'm looking forward to getting them dialed in. How have you integrated your MBMs? Do they overlap with your subs or are they handling a discrete frequency range.


I have my 4-15" nearfield subs and my 4-18's up front set at the same fq. The only thing I did was set the delays on two of the amps which was for the nearfield subs since there close. I also had to play around with the Phase on the amps and gain a lot doing that. Once I was done I ran Audyssey to have the avr tweak it a little better. All four inukes are set at 20-100hz I did the ltd02 work around on the inuke amps to.
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post #10 of 100 Old 11-14-2016, 08:48 PM
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@VicTorious1
Cool! Nice looking project.
I've been reading all the recent MBM, VBSS & PA460 threads. I have something in mind but it will be a little different from a standard VBSS, so I was curious about yours since it's a little different too. Mainly I'm curious about the tune frequencies people are using and what effect it has on output/feel/FR/TR.
I get the impression people are using lower tune frequencies than the PA460 prefers, and if you're at 40Hz, at seems higher than a lot of the other builds I've seen, so i imagine you should be closer to the 460's efficiency range .
Just looking for some seat-of-the-pants, real world feedback, and thinking ahead about my own goals.
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post #11 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 01:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
I have my 4-15" nearfield subs and my 4-18's up front set at the same fq. The only thing I did was set the delays on two of the amps which was for the nearfield subs since there close. I also had to play around with the Phase on the amps and gain a lot doing that. Once I was done I ran Audyssey to have the avr tweak it a little better. All four inukes are set at 20-100hz I did the ltd02 work around on the inuke amps to.
Remind me again. Are your nearfield subs those famous maker drivers from PE or some Kickers?
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post #12 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
@VicTorious1
Cool! Nice looking project.
I've been reading all the recent MBM, VBSS & PA460 threads. I have something in mind but it will be a little different from a standard VBSS, so I was curious about yours since it's a little different too. Mainly I'm curious about the tune frequencies people are using and what effect it has on output/feel/FR/TR.
I get the impression people are using lower tune frequencies than the PA460 prefers, and if you're at 40Hz, at seems higher than a lot of the other builds I've seen, so i imagine you should be closer to the 460's efficiency range .
Just looking for some seat-of-the-pants, real world feedback, and thinking ahead about my own goals.
Yeah, I was looking for getting that tactile feel, and more importantly, that chest slam. I was initially going to tune it around 50hz but after playing around with some models and taking to LTD02 and mtg90, I decided to shoot for a little lower tune. Based on the MBM thread, it appears that there is increased tactile energy around port tune. What are your plans for this driver?
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post #13 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
What are your plans for this driver?
I recently moved my subs to a nearfield setup with them sitting right behind the couch. The boominess and a major room mode to 50Hz I had from their corner and wall positions are all but gone now, so I've been really happy with that move.
So now I'm playing around with several designs to build a nearfield sub array with a large ported volume and two smaller volumes (ported or sealed) to provide both LFE and MB. For the Mid Bass I've been considering two PA460s in a ported enclosure (~5cuft) and for the LFE a high excursion 18" in a Marty (~11cuft). WAF is pretty high so my plan is to disguise all three of these volumes as a piece of furniture in the livingroom that sits up against the back of the couch, where my current subs currently sit. I'm picturing a buffet/dresser/sideboard or whatever you want to call it, with the subs and ports on the back firing into the back of the couch. Something that looks like the picture I've attached.
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post #14 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
I recently moved my subs to a nearfield setup with them sitting right behind the couch. The boominess and a major room mode to 50Hz I had from their corner and wall positions are all but gone now, so I've been really happy with that move.
So now I'm playing around with several designs to build a nearfield sub array with a large ported volume and two smaller volumes (ported or sealed) to provide both LFE and MB. For the Mid Bass I've been considering two PA460s in a ported enclosure (~5cuft) and for the LFE a high excursion 18" in a Marty (~11cuft). WAF is pretty high so my plan is to disguise all three of these volumes as a piece of furniture in the livingroom that sits up against the back of the couch, where my current subs currently sit. I'm picturing a buffet/dresser/sideboard or whatever you want to call it, with the subs and ports on the back firing into the back of the couch. Something that looks like the picture I've attached.
If you have the woodworking skills, I'd go for it. That buffet/dresser, however, looks smaller than 16 ft^3. Would it only function as a buffet/tabletop without use of the cabinet (except for the subs)? Sounds like a nice project.
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post #15 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 08:53 AM
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If you have the woodworking skills, I'd go for it. That buffet/dresser, however, looks smaller than 16 ft^3. Would it only function as a buffet/tabletop without use of the cabinet (except for the subs)? Sounds like a nice project.
Yea, I'd put fake drawers/doors on it :-)
Couch is 80+" long, so the dimensions I'm thinking are ~80"Lx30"Hx20"W, with 3" feet that should give an internal volume close to 20cu ft.
I'll probably start a thread some time with my ideas to get some feedback.
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post #16 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
I recently moved my subs to a nearfield setup with them sitting right behind the couch. The boominess and a major room mode to 50Hz I had from their corner and wall positions are all but gone now, so I've been really happy with that move.
So now I'm playing around with several designs to build a nearfield sub array with a large ported volume and two smaller volumes (ported or sealed) to provide both LFE and MB. For the Mid Bass I've been considering two PA460s in a ported enclosure (~5cuft) and for the LFE a high excursion 18" in a Marty (~11cuft). WAF is pretty high so my plan is to disguise all three of these volumes as a piece of furniture in the livingroom that sits up against the back of the couch, where my current subs currently sit. I'm picturing a buffet/dresser/sideboard or whatever you want to call it, with the subs and ports on the back firing into the back of the couch. Something that looks like the picture I've attached.
great idea. there are a few builds (I quickly searched around, but could not find them for you) that did some things similar. one had a kitchen countertop (derrickdj's iirc) that was sitting right behind his couch and when he posted the picture, folks were like "where's the sub?"
there was also another who build some cabs up to the back of his sofa, then put a full length piece of marble across the top. couldn't tell it wasn't just a marble table behind the couch...look forward to seeing what you come up with.

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post #17 of 100 Old 11-15-2016, 04:05 PM
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Nice work @VicTorious1

Your build is looking great! Looking forward to your impressions!

I'm guessing it will probably make sense to place this "upside down" so that the ports are on top, closer to your chest.

Also, for those thinking about optimizing TR, it would be interesting to design something with a slot port that extends vertically; essentially distributing the TR by the height of the sub instead of the width. Pro and cons depending on what frequencies you want to optimize TR, but would be interesting.

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post #18 of 100 Old 11-17-2016, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Some more progress on the build. Completed building the boxes. Now I simply need to finish them. I decided to use DAP - Vinyl Spackling instead of Bondo because I'm not hauling the Cyclops subs up the stairs to be in a well ventilated area.


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Any thoughts on how I should finish these MBMs? Since they will be nearfield and not behind the AT screen, I was thinking of going with paint or vinyl instead of Duratex. I have some Duratex left over from my Stonehenges, but it might run out after I finish painting the Cyclops subs. @eng-399 - what paint did you use on your HTM-10s?
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post #20 of 100 Old 11-17-2016, 06:25 PM
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I have half a bucket of Duratex that I don't need if you want it.

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post #21 of 100 Old 11-17-2016, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
Any thoughts on how I should finish these MBMs? Since they will be nearfield and not behind the AT screen, I was thinking of going with paint or vinyl instead of Duratex. I have some Duratex left over from my Stonehenges, but it might run out after I finish painting the Cyclops subs. @eng-399 - what paint did you use on your HTM-10s?


I used this from Home Depot the finish is really nice and easy to wipe off if you have kids.
I used this primer to.

Or use this

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why the pa460 over the 460ho or um-18?
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post #23 of 100 Old 11-18-2016, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I have half a bucket of Duratex that I don't need if you want it.
Thanks, Brian. I might have to take you up on that. I'll see how much I have left when I paint each Cyclops.

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I used this from Home Depot the finish is really nice and easy to wipe off if you have kids.
I used this primer to.
Thanks. I think I'm going to go this route. I'm not sure I want to try vinyl laminate unless I have the time. Paint seems much easier.

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why the pa460 over the 460ho or um-18?
The PA460 is just going into the small cabs which will be used as nearfield MBMs. The 460ho or UM18, don't model well in this small of a cab. The bigger cabs in the back were designed for the UM18, but I'm using the SI DS4 18 for those, not the PA460.
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post #24 of 100 Old 11-20-2016, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I was able to sand these (probably could've sanded them even more, but I didn't have much time) over the weekend. I also put on a coat of primer. @eng-399 - I presume you just use one coat of the latex primer and then one or two coats of the Behr Marquee? I picked that paint up this weekend as well.

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post #25 of 100 Old 11-20-2016, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
I was able to sand these (probably could've sanded them even more, but I didn't have much time) over the weekend. I also put on a coat of primer. @eng-399 - I presume you just use one coat of the latex primer and then one or two coats of the Behr Marquee? I picked that paint up this weekend as well.





Pretty much like your saying above I give them one good coat of primer let it dry and look all over the box to make sure it has a good coat on it and if theres any spots that aren't covered completely I give it one more coat. Normally one thick coat covers it with the tinted paint since I normally paint everything black. Then the final 2 coats of Behr Marquee. The paint isn't cheap but either are the kits your building so what's a few more dollars for something that your going to enjoy and show your friends. I can't wait to see how your boxes look once painted!
If you want to go a little crazy with it there's always one side that doesn't get painted which would be the bottom. You can run frog tape on all the edges on it so there isn't any paint build up/ thick paint on the bottom. Doing that will make a perfect finish.
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post #26 of 100 Old 11-20-2016, 08:14 PM
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This is brilliant! I bought 4 of these PA460 last year and a couple of Yung 300W plate amps, because I've always loved the way pro sound subs sound/feel. I never got around to building them because I knew they wouldn't have enough extension to make great subs. But to use them as mid-bass modules in conjunction with real subwoofers might just give me the best of both worlds. I'm excited now!


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post #27 of 100 Old 11-26-2016, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I finished these MBMs (but still need to paint the ports). I'm having some issues with hooking these up to the inuke 1000DSP. First I hooked a 12AWG wire up to the inuke using an NL4 Speakon connector (positive wire to the +1 and negative wire to the +2). I'm running the amp in bridged mode. I next used a 12AWG wire to connect the positive binding post/terminal on the first sub to the positive binding post/terminal on the second sub. I then did the same with the negative connection.

I've played with the inuke settings and initially set the max voltage to 50 volts and then bumped them up to 60 votes. When I play a clip, I'm barely getting any sound through the MBMs. Even when I turn the gain almost all the way up, the inuke isn't sending much to the MBMs. The signal gauge on the inuke settings is barely showing any input unless I turn the gain dial almost all the way up.

I tried using two separate 12AWG speaker wires and connected the red wires to the +1 and the black wires to the +2. Still not much luck. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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post #28 of 100 Old 11-26-2016, 03:35 PM
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If you can post screen shots of each inuke DSP tab that would be a good start.
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post #29 of 100 Old 11-26-2016, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If you can post screen shots of each inuke DSP tab that would be a good start.




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post #30 of 100 Old 11-26-2016, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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While I'm still trying to work through connecting/setting up these up, here are some near final pics. Still have to paint the ports. I'll be picking up a long brush tomorrow. I probably should've wiped these down prior to taking pics. Thanks to @eng-399 - for the paint suggestion.




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