Dayton audio Pa460 in Diysoundgroup Stonehenge? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 19Likes
  • 1 Post By biga6761
  • 1 Post By hardeng
  • 5 Post By biga6761
  • 3 Post By biga6761
  • 2 Post By beastaudio
  • 4 Post By biga6761
  • 1 Post By VicTorious1
  • 2 Post By biga6761
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Dayton audio Pa460 in Diysoundgroup Stonehenge?

Hello all. Long time lurker here at AVS and this is my first tread as I was unsure where to ask this question.

I currently have a Diysoundgroup Stonehenge enclosure loaded with an Si HT18d2 powered by a QSC RMX 1450 bridged and a minidsp for Eq . I have been quite happy with its performance but am now looking to add MOAR BASS to my living room theater. I have been researching the v.b.s.s as an option for my next addition. In reading through a lot of threads the idea struck me to build a full marty for mt Ht18d2 and place a pa460 in my stonehenge (as it is 5.4cf tuned to around 19hz and looks to me to be close to the 20hz tune of the v.b.s.s.)
I'm thinking this setup would maximize the low end potential of the Si 18 (in the marty) and also get me close to the v.b.s.s.' mid and low bass performance.

So on to my questions.
Does anyone see any major problems I'm overlooking by putting a Dayton pa460 in a Stonehenge?
I have several amp options i could power the 460 (in the stonehenge) with and the minidsp for the required flat response eq.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 09:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
HFGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked: 259
Glad I wasn't the only one considering this.
HFGuy is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post
Glad I wasn't the only one considering this.
Yea it seems like a good idea in my mind but I'm hoping some of the people with more modelling knowledge/ V.b.s.s. experience will chime in with advise. (Possibly models of pa460 stonehenge response)

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 11:27 AM
Member
 
hardeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Carp, near Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 73
I have left and right Stonehenge boxes and recently swapped out the RSS460HO drivers for PA460's. The bass is now much tighter and I don't need to Eq much at all. Due to the room modes (room is about 32' x 20') I have as much output as I need down to 15Hz. With the RSS460HO's, I had to apply about 15dB of cut from about 30Hz downwards to flatten the in-room response. Very nice chest and couch vibrating mid-bass from the PA460's.

I've not tried to model it, but its the best bass I've heard in my room so far.
hardeng is offline  
post #5 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 12:16 PM
Newbie
 
Ayshaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 2
I have been doing some modeling of the PA460 in various enclosures for my theater as well (thinking 6 in 9.6CuFt boxes). Here is what I show for 1 PA460 in the 5.4cuft stonehendge. Black line is no EQ, Red line is with PEQ similar to the VBSS design. I'm no expert for sure but I think it should be close.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PA460 Stonehendge_3.PNG
Views:	418
Size:	19.0 KB
ID:	1773313  
Ayshaggy is offline  
post #6 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeng View Post
I have left and right Stonehenge boxes and recently swapped out the RSS460HO drivers for PA460's. The bass is now much tighter and I don't need to Eq much at all. Due to the room modes (room is about 32' x 20') I have as much output as I need down to 15Hz. With the RSS460HO's, I had to apply about 15dB of cut from about 30Hz downwards to flatten the in-room response. Very nice chest and couch vibrating mid-bass from the PA460's.

I've not tried to model it, but its the best bass I've heard in my room so far.
Thanks hardeng for your reply. You have around the same room volume as I do as my room is open to the kitchen and a hallway. I use my Stonehenge semi near field with a low pass at 120hz now with the Si. I"m wondering if I'll have localization issues with the 460 in the henge as close as I have it now with the kinda high crossover. Also what kind of power are you giving the 460's and what hz high pass are you using?

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayshaggy View Post
I have been doing some modeling of the PA460 in various enclosures for my theater as well (thinking 6 in 9.6CuFt boxes). Here is what I show for 1 PA460 in the 5.4cuft stonehendge. Black line is no EQ, Red line is with PEQ similar to the VBSS design. I'm no expert for sure but I think it should be close.

Thank you for the model shaggy. This confirms my thinking.

I'm leaning toward pulling the trigger on 2 460's before I leave for work in a few mins. I think I give one a shot in the stonehenge and see how it does and go from there. I could always build a couple v.b.s.s. enclosures if it doesn't work out like I think. Still not sure what I'll do with the 2nd driver but want to go ahead and get 2 to save on shipping and while they are on sale for $90

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 01:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lz7j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked: 687
I upgraded from 4 x ht18's (1kw each) in Marty cubes to pa460's nearfield. I also modified the tuning from 20hz to 24hz (I was aiming for 28hz as per the model), flat to 20hz in room. The box is approximately 5.2ft^3.

I can tell you this was a huge upgrade. Crazy good midbass and impact with less power requirements (325w/driver). A few people on here made the same move upgrading their ht18's and the results have been positive.

You don't really need a big box for them either for efficiency, since they only have a 6mm Xmax.
lz7j is offline  
post #9 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 02:43 PM
Member
 
hardeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Carp, near Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by biga6761 View Post
Thanks hardeng for your reply. You have around the same room volume as I do as my room is open to the kitchen and a hallway. I use my Stonehenge semi near field with a low pass at 120hz now with the Si. I"m wondering if I'll have localization issues with the 460 in the henge as close as I have it now with the kinda high crossover. Also what kind of power are you giving the 460's and what hz high pass are you using?
I'm using a Crown XLi 2500 for the two subs. I currently have the crossovers set to 90Hz for the mains and 50Hz for the center and surrounds, but I'll be trying different values soon. Having the two subs, located close to the L & R main speakers will allow me to put the crossover quite high which the PA460 supports. In your case your right, might get more localization issues with the PA460 compared to the SI at higher Xover frequencies.

Mainfloor 2.1 Music/TV System: KEF LS50W, Ibeam sonic transducer, Oppo 105D, Panasonic 60VT65, Linn LP12
Basement 5.2 Theater: EV ELX115P for LR & Surrounds, 88-Special for center, stereo Stonehenge subs with RSS460HO-4 drivers, Emotiva XMC-1, Epson 6030 UB.
hardeng is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Thanks guy for your time and encouraging replies. I ordered 2 460's this afternoon from parts express. I live in Tennessee so I'm hoping they will make it before the weekend. After thinking about it all evening at work I have decided to put one 460 in my stonehenge and the other in the martycube I currently have a HSU ASW 1203 in. I originally bought the HSU driver in a sealed box for my 2 channel setup in my extra bedroom/music room but decided to put it in the martycube when I had to delay the 18" driver purchase I had planned for that enclosure. The HSU driver has performed great in the cube and I plan to build a down firing version for it and return it to the 2 channel system.

So the 2 460's will be placed in the rear of the room near field powered by one channel of a crown xls 2000 and my 4 NHT Subone 10's will be on the other channel placed in the front of the room stacked beside the mains. I'm planning to build 2 full marty boxes in the next few weeks for the Si ht18 I already have and plan to buy another as soon as they are available again in early 2017. These Marty's will be placed in the front corners to the outside of the mains. I'm also considering another set of shakers in my seating possibly even a Crowson.
That's the plan until I change my mind again and for my sake hope it staves off the dreaded upgradeitus that creeps into all of us here during the cold winter months. Hell, who am I kidding I want to upgrade something every day I wake up. Just wish my wallet was on board.

I will post my progress and get some before and after measurements up once the changes start to take place. Going to take pics of current setup tomorrow and get some final compression/max output graphs measured.

Just for fun I have attached a pic of my current response. In the high output sweeps i had increased the start freq to 20 instead of 10. That's why the top response lines start at 20. Eq was causing my Bagend infrasub to bottom on the high volume sweeps if I started them lower than 20 though it never has with any program material. These were taken at the MLP with Audessy on and dynamic eq off no smoothing. The hump at 19hz is the tune on the Stonehenge and the Martycube. I'm hoping to best these with the new setup.

Side question. How do you get 5 db steps on rew graphs? I can only get it to show 10 db no mater what limits I set.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Mea pic.jpg
Views:	272
Size:	99.0 KB
ID:	1774257  
Blackman likes this.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #11 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 09:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
would the 460ho be a better speaker for this application?
KeithieGee is offline  
post #12 of 27 Old 11-18-2016, 05:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VicTorious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 580 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithieGee View Post
would the 460ho be a better speaker for this application?
The Stonehenges was designed for the 460ho or SI HT18. I've got two Stonehenges with 460ho drivers. If it wouldn't be a pain, I'd drop my two PA460s in there to test it.
VicTorious1 is offline  
post #13 of 27 Old 11-18-2016, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
The Stonehenges was designed for the 460ho or SI HT18. I've got two Stonehenges with 460ho drivers. If it wouldn't be a pain, I'd drop my two PA460s in there to test it.
I'll know monday as my 460"s are in Nashville for the weekend. Ups should be here by 1:00pm monday. My son and I are building a full marty for my HT18d2 tommorrow and will stick a 460 in the stonehenge as soon as it gets here. I'll report back monday evening.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #14 of 27 Old 11-19-2016, 03:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VicTorious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 580 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by biga6761 View Post
I'll know monday as my 460"s are in Nashville for the weekend. Ups should be here by 1:00pm monday. My son and I are building a full marty for my HT18d2 tommorrow and will stick a 460 in the stonehenge as soon as it gets here. I'll report back monday evening.
What will you be powering them with, an inuke? What DSP settings do you plan on using for the pa460 Stonehenge?
VicTorious1 is offline  
post #15 of 27 Old 11-19-2016, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
What will you be powering them with, an inuke? What DSP settings do you plan on using for the pa460 Stonehenge?
Amp will either be a Qsc rmx 850 bridged, an Rmx 1450 stereo or a Crown Xls 2000. I have all 3 as sub amps now and will just be changing the channel arrangement around a little. For eq I will be using my Minidsp 2x4 balanced. I just have to get the eq text file Mtg90 listed in the V.b.s.s. build thread and give it a try. If the original eq file doesn't sound right I'll make some changes but I look for it to be about perfect with Matt's 20hz eq file. We shall see monday. Bout to start building new full marty in about an hour for my SI 18".

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #16 of 27 Old 11-25-2016, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
What will you be powering them with, an inuke? What DSP settings do you plan on using for the pa460 Stonehenge?
So time for an update. I finished the full marty and got a little lazy and instead of pulling out my Si ht18 from the stonehenge I left it and put one of the pa460's in the marty. OMG!!!!! I then removed all of my NHT 10" subs from the room except for one which I placed directly behind the MLP with a 12db BW highpass at 30hz as an MBM. Then in the corner where the NHT's were stacked placed the marty with the pa460 and connected it up to one channel of a Crown XLS 2000 and applied a 16hz BW highpass. After that I applied a Low shelf of 5db from 50hz down to the marty. So now my subs are the Si stonehenge on a Qsc Rmx 1450 bridged, 18" Bagend Infrasub, and the pa460 marty on the Crown. The little MBM is powered by a plate amp.

This setup once integrated and eq'ed TROUNCES my previous setup easly. Upgrade, I'll say. The TR is through the roof and the mid bass slam is now awesome. Keep in mind I have not experienced any of the INSANE setups some of the guys here have ( I live an hour away from BEASTAUDIO who is listed in the "I'll demo my system for you thread", i just haven't had time to reach out and set something up to experience his system) so i'm not sure what crazy bass sounds like but this has to be getting in the ballpark. This is what I have been chasing all these years and the crazy part is i'm starting the second full marty tomorrow for the second pa460. I truly can't wait for the results.

I'm thinking of starting a "How the Dayton audio Pa460 changed my theater/life forever thread and see how many others here chime in. LOL

Will post some pics soon. Have to work today. Damn RETAIL job!!!!

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #17 of 27 Old 11-25-2016, 12:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VicTorious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 580 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Nice decision. I think that driver likes a bigger box than the Stonehenge if I remember correctly. I wonder how flat it measures. Are you going to measure your setup?
VicTorious1 is offline  
post #18 of 27 Old 11-26-2016, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
Nice decision. I think that driver likes a bigger box than the Stonehenge if I remember correctly. I wonder how flat it measures. Are you going to measure your setup?
My thoughts exactly on the bigger box. Yes I did measure (in-room) when integrating all the subs but my not be finished yet. I'm not getting quite as smooth a measured response (see post #10) as my previous setup but it sounds just as good to me and is much more powerful feeling.
Red-Pa460 raw in marty in room
Green is Pa460 alone after 12db BW and 4.5db LS
Blue- All subs integrated and eq'ed

I'm off tomorrow and will prob try to integrate all subs again to see if I can smooth things out more. I'm using the Geddes' method and don't think this is the best I can do yet as I was time limited on the first try. Also will do some max output/ compression sweeps tomorrow and post them with build pics.

Thanks for the interest and kind comment on my decision VicT
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pa460 mea pic.jpg
Views:	304
Size:	86.6 KB
ID:	1790545  

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's

Last edited by biga6761; 11-26-2016 at 12:17 PM.
biga6761 is offline  
post #19 of 27 Old 12-09-2016, 07:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidK442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,694
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked: 749
Did you ever do the max output distortion sweeps?
DavidK442 is offline  
post #20 of 27 Old 12-20-2016, 05:56 AM
Member
 
hardeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Carp, near Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 73
I put the RSS460HO-4 drivers back in my Stonehenge boxes. The PA460-8 drivers weren't giving enough output when I had bass heavy material cranked unfortunately. I'm able to Eq the 460HO drivers to give a similar tightness that the PA460's had, around 12dB cut in the 15 to 35Hz range.

Nice chest vibrating bass with Interstellar again .
LTD02 likes this.

Mainfloor 2.1 Music/TV System: KEF LS50W, Ibeam sonic transducer, Oppo 105D, Panasonic 60VT65, Linn LP12
Basement 5.2 Theater: EV ELX115P for LR & Surrounds, 88-Special for center, stereo Stonehenge subs with RSS460HO-4 drivers, Emotiva XMC-1, Epson 6030 UB.
hardeng is offline  
post #21 of 27 Old 01-14-2017, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
Did you ever do the max output distortion sweeps?
Sorry for the delayed answer. No I did not.

A raised credit limit and Christmas sale prices caused my upgrade plans to advance sooner than I expected. I picked up 2 Inuke 3000dsp's and a Ultimax Um18-22 driver at ridiculously low price. Since then I have been very busy building a set of slot ported MBM's to hold the 2 pa460's and I ended up putting the Ultimax in the Full Marty. The pa460 was decent in the Marty but I was having to use a progressive boost low shelf starting with about 3db at 80hz and as much as 18db around 20hz just to get a flat response. This led to a strained sound at high output levels. It sounded powerful but had a sort of muddy/boosted tone. The Pa460 sound so clean and punchy in the MBM cabs. I just finished the 2nd one yesterday and with both behind my couch I finally have strong punch in my room. Music now sounds concert like and kick drums hit you right in the chest and back. Movies got a very obvious boost in mid bass power and dynamics. Gun shots and expolsions are completely different with the MBM's. I should have built these years ago and recommend some Pa460 MBM's to anyone who can fit them in their room. Here is a link to the cab design I used for mine.

[URL="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2643073-slot-ported-nearfield-mbm-w-pa460.html"]

Its a project @VicTorious1 posted and he had help from @LTD02 and @mtg90 on the design. I did change the tune a little from 40hz to 35hz by adding 8" to the port length. I also have the option to plug one side of the port for a 24hz tune.
Thanks to @VicTorious1 for posting this project, and a special thank you to @LTD02 and @mtg90 for all they do on these forums. I'm now using 3 sub designs they were involved in or designed and I couldn't be happier or more blown away by their performance.

On another note I feel I need to say something about the Dayton Ultimax um18-22. I have owned an Si Ht18d2 for a couple years now and it is an amazing driver, especially for the price. The Um18-22 is a different BEAST all together. I had read a lot of good things but feel none of it prepared me for what the Ultimax can do. I was planning to buy another Si Ht18 when they a re released in 2017 but decided to try the Ultimax after seeing 2 different Seaton sound designs that use UM drivers. No wonder mister Mark Seaton uses this(or a version of this ) driver. (see Seaton Terraform/F18) Anyway I'm so glad I did and now I'm considering selling my Si Ht18 for another Ultimax. Now I know there are much better more expensive drivers out there but the Ultimax is a serious piece of kit for sure. I'm by no means an expert but (not considering distortion) for about a grand I bet 3 Um18-22's would stomp most $1000 drivers. All I know for sure is there will soon be more Um18-22 Ultimax drivers in my system!! If anyone is on the fence or wondering what driver to buy, I can't scream Dayton ULTIMAX loud enough!!!!!!

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #22 of 27 Old 01-14-2017, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
MBM pics....These will get Duratex when I can get warm weather without rain for longer than a few days.

Click image for larger version

Name:	0104171716.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	158.9 KB
ID:	1894505
The Stack Pic...Haha
Click image for larger version

Name:	0104171717.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	254.3 KB
ID:	1894545
Dust everyF...ingwhere....
Click image for larger version

Name:	0104171827.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	179.7 KB
ID:	1894513

Click image for larger version

Name:	0113171339.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	111.3 KB
ID:	1894521

Click image for larger version

Name:	0107170912.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	145.0 KB
ID:	1894529
Here you can see the extra 8" of port I turned up the back to lower the tune the my estimate of 35hz.
Click image for larger version

Name:	0114170943a.jpg
Views:	252
Size:	165.2 KB
ID:	1894497
In use powered by 1 channel of Crown Xls 2000 at 4ohms

Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic final freq response.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	1894585
Newest final frequency response (no smoothing) after adding Ultimax to Marty and integrating the MBM's.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic overlays.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	67.9 KB
ID:	1894601
Blue is Audessey on 1/12 smoothing no eq ( This one is smoothed for eq purposes. All other sweeps are No Smoothing.), Green is REW's auto eq of blue , purple is final with manual eq 3 filters total.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic overlays 2 inc Aud off.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	75.2 KB
ID:	1894617
Red Audessey off, blue Audessey on, purple final eq
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic final phase alone.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	65.8 KB
ID:	1894609
Final Phase after integration.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic phase overlays.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	86.3 KB
ID:	1894657
Phase overlays of above sweeps with Rew auto eq and Final manual eq.
LTD02, VicTorious1 and SBuger like this.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's

Last edited by biga6761; 01-14-2017 at 09:27 AM.
biga6761 is offline  
post #23 of 27 Old 01-14-2017, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 14,671
Mentioned: 402 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5706 Post(s)
Liked: 5549
subbed. that final response looks textbook. Slight rise through the passband and very smooth.
biga6761 and bebb like this.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is offline  
post #24 of 27 Old 01-14-2017, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Had a chance to do a couple quick max output sweeps at -10 and -5 from Ref. I wanted to go on up to ref. but the neighbors came home with a hoard of company right after the -5 sweep. There was plenty left in the headroom tank. I will update again soon. Needless to say I'm quite pleased with all the upgrades I have made since Christmas.
Before Christmas(Old setup)
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic previous max output 9-17-16.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	103.3 KB
ID:	1895601
Previous max output sweeps up to Ref before upgrades. Notice the drop in spl in the top sweeps below 16hz then 18hz then 20hz. I'll do another overlay like this for the new setup soon

After Christmas with 2 new Inuke 3000dsp's the Ultimax Marty and 2 Pa460 MBM's(New setup)
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic max output -10 from Ref.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	66.0 KB
ID:	1895729
-10 from Ref.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beast pic max output -5 from Ref.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	59.6 KB
ID:	1895737
-5 from Ref.

The deeper extension is easily visible. -3db point of 11hz? No compression or drop off like the before upgrade sweeps. Considering the 17-18hz tune of the Stonehenge and Marty I'm very happy. The near field Bag End helps I'm sure but not that much considering it was in the system before the upgrades....

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's

Last edited by biga6761; 01-14-2017 at 06:39 PM.
biga6761 is offline  
post #25 of 27 Old 01-15-2017, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
subbed. that final response looks textbook. Slight rise through the passband and very smooth.
Thanks for the kind words Beast. Hope to have you over soon for a good demo.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #26 of 27 Old 01-23-2017, 07:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VicTorious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 580 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Not sure how I missed this as I liked a previous comment/post of yours in this thread. Good job. These look great. How are you liking them?
biga6761 likes this.
VicTorious1 is offline  
post #27 of 27 Old 01-26-2017, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
Not sure how I missed this as I liked a previous comment/post of yours in this thread. Good job. These look great. How are you liking them?
I love them. I just changed them from one channel of a Crown XLS 2000 to one channel of an Inuke 6000DSP and plugged one port so they are tuned to 24hz or so. Insane impact and TR. Really took my setup to another level with movies and music. Thanks so much for everything @VicTorious1 from posting your thread and plans to stopping by mine.
Blackman and LTD02 like this.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off