Transducer amp that gives 2kW @ 2 ohms? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Transducer amp that gives 2kW @ 2 ohms?

Any recommendations here?

I've had a dead buttkicker amp since August. Originally replacements were supposed to be in stock by September, then November, now January. I've more or less decided I need to look into another option. I have two LFEs that can each handle 1000W, so I'm looking for something that can output around 2000W @ 2 ohms that would be comparable to my dead buttkicker amp. I have experience with inuke amps and thought one of these could possibly work for me but I'm not really sure.

If anyone could provide me with some recommendations I would really appreciate it. I'd like to get something ordered in the next few days. Thanks!
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post #2 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 05:27 PM
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An amps an amp. I run my Crowson off a pro amp.
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post #3 of 27 Old 11-16-2016, 08:27 PM
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A pro amp like an I Nuke 3000 DSP is 1500 per channel at 2 ohm and 3000 watts bridge at 4 ohms. You would not leave much on the table with this amp, 1-2 db difference. At 4 ohm, 820 watts per channel. The Buttkicker LFE is a 4 ohm TT's. The I Nuke 6000 DSP can do 3100 watts at 4 ohms/channel.

I run my TT's off the I Nuke 3000 DSP. They are not the Buttkicker LFE but are 4 ohms.
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post #4 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
A pro amp like an I Nuke 3000 DSP is 1500 per channel at 2 ohm and 3000 watts bridge at 4 ohms. You would not leave much on the table with this amp, 1-2 db difference. At 4 ohm, 820 watts per channel. The Buttkicker LFE is a 4 ohm TT's. The I Nuke 6000 DSP can do 3100 watts at 4 ohms/channel.

I run my TT's off the I Nuke 3000 DSP. They are not the Buttkicker LFE but are 4 ohms.
I guess I'm leaning toward the inuke3000 DSP. The only reason I really would want the DSP version is just to push the 20hz lower end of the inuke a little lower since the buttkicker amp / LFEs have a FR down the 5hz. What about wiring? I know the inukes have different output cables than the standard L/R that the transducers accept... would I need to get an adapter or modify the output cables somehow? Thank for the advice on this!
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post #5 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 10:03 AM
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Could always look at the Inuke 12000dsp. 2x 6,000wps @ 2 Ohms. Can a Inuke play down to 5 hz?
You will need SpeakOn connectors from the Inuke to your Transducers.

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post #6 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
I guess I'm leaning toward the inuke3000 DSP. The only reason I really would want the DSP version is just to push the 20hz lower end of the inuke a little lower since the buttkicker amp / LFEs have a FR down the 5hz.
The 20Hz limitation in the iNukes isn't the FR, but the minimum in the standard EQ settings. It's a pro amp, so there is no need for <20Hz, or in reality 40Hz in that application.
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post #7 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
A pro amp like an I Nuke 3000 DSP is 1500 per channel at 2 ohm and 3000 watts bridge at 4 ohms. You would not leave much on the table with this amp, 1-2 db difference. At 4 ohm, 820 watts per channel. The Buttkicker LFE is a 4 ohm TT's. The I Nuke 6000 DSP can do 3100 watts at 4 ohms/channel.

I run my TT's off the I Nuke 3000 DSP. They are not the Buttkicker LFE but are 4 ohms.
these figures are not even close to accurate. stahp.
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post #8 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
Could always look at the Inuke 12000dsp. 2x 6,000wps @ 2 Ohms. Can a Inuke play down to 5 hz?
You will need SpeakOn connectors from the Inuke to your Transducers.
again, not even close to accurate.
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post #9 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 03:03 PM
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I just mention the specs that Berhinger has listed in their manual. Notnyt has tested these amps with less than the stated power rating. The main point is that these amps are a good option for running TT's. Running the TT's at their rated 4 ohm load should be sufficient for movies and handle low impedance loads without a problem.

IMHO I would not put to much emphasis or hitting 5 Hz. This frequency will require the highest power density and weakest response. I have not read about anyone getting a flat response with the Buttkicker LFE in the AVS forum. I have tested my TT's and have shifted the power distribution using the DPS/PEQ. More low power = less power higher up, just like subs.

The biggest problem in the HT is not their power but, truly get them to work constructively with the subs. We are currently testing systems on the VS and all of us found that it is not easy to get them working constructively. We still have a lot more to test in this regard so, this is just my take on things.
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post #10 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The inuke3000DSP can put out what, around 800-900W RMS into each of two BK LFEs at 2 ohms? That's pretty close to what I was getting from the BK amp, probably not a noticeable difference. How would the wiring work from the inuke (speakon outs?) to the transducers?
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post #11 of 27 Old 11-17-2016, 05:32 PM
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The Inuke requires a Speakon for the output, but that's just connected to a normal speaker wire. one + and one - ... so whatever your butt-kicker requires, you'd have a normal speaker wire going to whatever adapter is needed .

I don't know what inputs your buttkickers require, but you'd just hook up the speaker wire to it / or whatever adapter is needed. AFAIK.

I've seen stated to subtract about 30% from whatever Behringer claims for stated output power, more or less. 35 - 40% for a conservative #. I do know the 6000 is not rated for 2 ohm loads. The 3000 is.

this is all IMO, which may be wrong, , and YMMV

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post #12 of 27 Old 11-18-2016, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha. The BK amp just had your standard + / - screw posts on it for speaker wire to the LFEs. I've got about a 25 foot run between the LFEs and where the amp location is. I guess I'd just need to connect those +/- wires to the speakon output from the inuke3000.
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post #13 of 27 Old 11-18-2016, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
Gotcha. The BK amp just had your standard + / - screw posts on it for speaker wire to the LFEs. I've got about a 25 foot run between the LFEs and where the amp location is. I guess I'd just need to connect those +/- wires to the speakon output from the inuke3000.
Use the diagram on the back of the amp for the correct way to hook the wires up.
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post #14 of 27 Old 11-18-2016, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
Gotcha. The BK amp just had your standard + / - screw posts on it for speaker wire to the LFEs. I've got about a 25 foot run between the LFEs and where the amp location is. I guess I'd just need to connect those +/- wires to the speakon output from the inuke3000.
Get a couple of these: http://www.markertek.com/product/nl4...able-connector

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post #15 of 27 Old 11-19-2016, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Speaker wire to the transducers just gets screwed into those (linked above) which connect into the inuke? I think I would only need 1 though right? Wouldn't the left and right go into 1 connector and that go into the inuke in bridged mode? I could run another whole set of wires (about 25 feet) if I had to, but I have the 2 LFEs wired in parallel and then the 1 single set of wires runs the full length of the room to the amp so at the amp I just have a single + / - for both LFEs, if that makes sense?
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post #16 of 27 Old 11-20-2016, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
Speaker wire to the transducers just gets screwed into those (linked above) which connect into the inuke? I think I would only need 1 though right? Wouldn't the left and right go into 1 connector and that go into the inuke in bridged mode? I could run another whole set of wires (about 25 feet) if I had to, but I have the 2 LFEs wired in parallel and then the 1 single set of wires runs the full length of the room to the amp so at the amp I just have a single + / - for both LFEs, if that makes sense?

Yes, one connector. In bridge mode you would screw negative to the +2 terminal, and positive to the +1 terminal on the speakOn connector (not a typo, negative to the +2 terminal, and positive to the +1 terminal).


EDIT: I don't think you can run 2 ohms in Bridge Mode, what is the impedance of each LFE?

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Last edited by Augerhandle; 11-20-2016 at 11:34 AM.
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post #17 of 27 Old 11-20-2016, 02:08 PM
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I run an LFE off a single channel of an inuke 3kdsp with the other channel unused and its enough power to bottom it out.
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post #18 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe both LFEs are 4 ohms, so 2 ohms when wired together? I know the buttkicker amp was running at 2 ohms so I was hoping to achieve the same with the inuke 3000.
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post #19 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 05:51 AM
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I run two LFEs each on their own channel of an iNuke 6K. I think the volume knob on the iNuke is set at like 2 or 3. Way way down. When I was originally setting them up, I didn't realize how powerful they were going to be, and they, quite literally, tossed a remote control and a heavy flashlight off of the couch. There's more than enough power available, which is very likely to be the case with the 3K as well.

As far as connections go, I used a single speakon for both channels. The amp has a mode where it will take a single input and spit it out both channels. Works perfectly.
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post #20 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
Can a Inuke play down to 5 hz?
Absolutely.

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...plifier-tests/

I was surprised how much power they had down to 5hz.
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post #21 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
I believe both LFEs are 4 ohms, so 2 ohms when wired together? I know the buttkicker amp was running at 2 ohms so I was hoping to achieve the same with the inuke 3000.
So run one each channel.
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post #22 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
I believe both LFEs are 4 ohms, so 2 ohms when wired together? I know the buttkicker amp was running at 2 ohms so I was hoping to achieve the same with the inuke 3000.

If you're gonna use the single pair wire already run to them and then bridge the amp, then you need to re-wire them in series to 8 ohms. According to the manual, the amp will only work with 4 or 8 ohms in bridge mode. https://media.music-group.com/media/...00DSP_M_EN.pdf


Conversely, you can run both as is (paralleled to 2 ohms) on one channel only of the amp. The power to each would be approximately the same in either case.

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post #23 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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So run one each channel.
Then I'd be leaving half the power of the amp on the table.
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post #24 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 07:08 PM
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Then I'd be leaving half the power of the amp on the table.
No you won't. You'll simply be delivering half (of the power they'd draw in parallel on a single channel) on each channel, so it'll be the same. Probably a bit higher as the I^2R losses will be lower.
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post #25 of 27 Old 11-21-2016, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
Then I'd be leaving half the power of the amp on the table.

Your LFEs won't pull max power from the 3000 in any configuration. They are 4 ohms, so they either represent a 2 ohm load (parallel) for one channel, a 4 ohm load to each channel, or an 8 ohm load (series).

The 3000 makes max power into 2 ohms per channel / 4 ohms bridged. Your LFEs don't optimize it.

The 6000 makes max power into 4 ohms per channel, so you could run one on each channel and achieve it.
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post #26 of 27 Old 11-22-2016, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Your LFEs won't pull max power from the 3000 in any configuration. They are 4 ohms, so they either represent a 2 ohm load (parallel) for one channel, a 4 ohm load to each channel, or an 8 ohm load (series).

The 3000 makes max power into 2 ohms per channel / 4 ohms bridged. Your LFEs don't optimize it.

The 6000 makes max power into 4 ohms per channel, so you could run one on each channel and achieve it.
A9X-308,

This quoted above is what I meant by leaving half the power of the amp on the table; I don't see how I'd be able to provide each of the two LFEs with around 900W RMS using the inuke3000 like I was able to get from the BK amp. It seems perhaps considering another option is best.
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post #27 of 27 Old 11-22-2016, 05:39 PM
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^^ If you want to supply the actual measured power output (not interested in brochure numbers) of the iNukes in various configurations, I'll give an exact answer.

In the mean time, here's how it works in theory, and in reality. The actual power numbers aren't important as they'll scale for other amps.

If you had a theoretically perfect SS amp that gave 100W/8R/ch, it would output 200W/4R/ch and 400W/2R/ch. This is called "doubling down", ie, that for every time you halve the load impedance the power doubles.
Place one of your Buttkickers (4R) on each channel and the amp can deliver 200W to each, or 400W total.
Place two of your Buttkickers in parallel on one channel (2R) and the amp can deliver 400W to the combined load, or 200W to each BK. It works out identically.

Now, in the real world, I've never seen am amp that actually doubles down. Some get fairly close, but most don't. My ROT for an AB/G/H amp is 60% and for a good PWM unit, maybe 80%. There will be outliers of course.
So the AB would give 100W/8R/ch, 160W/4R/ch and 260W/2R/ch. Note, very few amps are rated at 2R, so the 2R numbers could vary considerably, almost always down, especially for hifi amps.
Using the AB amp, if you placed one BK (4R) on each channel, each could deliver 160W to each of the BKs for 320W total.
If you placed the 2 BKs in parallel on one channel (2R) then the total load could receive 260W, or 130W per BK, less than using one a channel.

The reason for the above is most people don't run 2R loads and in the pro amp market, it's very competitive so manufacturers build to the minimum spec that think they can get away with and still get a sale. In the parallel examplethe load is going to try to draw double the current through a single channel vs a single BK/ch. As a result, all the internal series impedances, such as PCB traces, output devices, power supplies, connects etc lower the rail voltage and reduce the potential power. Offsetting this to some extent, is that only one channel is running and the other channel is not loading down the rail. Both channels will share some of the same series impedances, eg PCB traces and PSU, so it is nowhere near a 100% offset.

Last edited by A9X-308; 11-22-2016 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Grammar
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