Doug's 1st Timer DIY Soundgroup Fusion-15 Sentinal Build Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 02:39 PM
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Sure looks like "fun"

wanna have fun? -try connecting those nonexistent dots on a piece of bare pegboard,

Matt proved to be very helpful.

attack it . . .
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post #32 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Sure looks like "fun"

wanna have fun? -try connecting those nonexistent dots on a piece of bare pegboard,

Matt proved to be very helpful.

attack it . . .
Solder By Numbers - can you do a Velvet Elvis?

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post #33 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Sure looks like "fun"

wanna have fun? -try connecting those nonexistent dots on a piece of bare pegboard,

Matt proved to be very helpful.

attack it . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic teletubby View Post
Solder By Numbers - can you do a Velvet Elvis?
This will be the first bit of soldering I've ever done, let alone the first crossovers, I'll need all the help I can get!!

Anyone interested in where they came from, they're a newly available set. Contact @ja00 for specifics. I'm test-driving them out from a nube perspective, in exchange for the experience and help getting them done.
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post #34 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 05:36 PM
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using the mounting holes in the corners of the board, using 2 pieces of 3/4"
ply about 3" high and long enough to reach down each side.
attach these 2 pieces to a piece of ply so you have a U channel for the xo to sit screwed down on while you poke /set / hot melt /zip tie each component in place without needing to bend or otherwise shorten the leads
once it's all fastened down, then you can remove it from the jig, flip it over and check your work,
leave the leads original length and solder a good connection.

if you can test it , just watch out fore errant touching.

when it's good, or you think it's good
snip the unneeded leads almost down to the dot
Dot's all there is too it . . .

ROCK ON!

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post #35 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
using the mounting holes in the corners of the board, using 2 pieces of 3/4"
ply about 3" high and long enough to reach down each side.
attach these 2 pieces to a piece of ply so you have a U channel for the xo to sit screwed down on while you poke /set / hot melt /zip tie each component in place without needing to bend or otherwise shorten the leads
once it's all fastened down, then you can remove it from the jig, flip it over and check your work,
leave the leads original length and solder a good connection.

if you can test it , just watch out fore errant touching.

when it's good, or you think it's good
snip the unneeded leads almost down to the dot
Dot's all there is too it . . .

ROCK ON!
That's a cool idea, with using extra ply to make a raised work surface, thereby not having to snip the leads. Consider that idea stolen, thanks!
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post #36 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 07:37 PM
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DUDE!

you should browse the DIYSG forums a bit more (after this build)

many creative experienced fellow DIY'ers chipping in their .02

I "stole" that idea from there but as a noob myself, > who's gonna just think that up!

iirc it was mtg90 who no doubt got it from . and so on.

"some" overachievers want to use 12 gauge from the board to the input jacks and i'll bet the board isn't sized for that, more like 16. if you're careful, BY HAND, you may be able to use a drill bit and carefully /slowly enlarge the hole to fit 14 but the 16 is scientifically adequate.

and don't be sell yourself "short' on the length of the leads to the horn and woofer from the board, being able to attach to the drivers well outside the box without touching the superb finish on that front baffle, yada yada yada.

(wish i had something to build besides room treatments - tons of fun )
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post #37 of 97 Old 11-28-2016, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
This will be the first bit of soldering I've ever done, let alone the first crossovers, I'll need all the help I can get.

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post #38 of 97 Old 11-29-2016, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
DUDE!

you should browse the DIYSG forums a bit more (after this build)

many creative experienced fellow DIY'ers chipping in their .02

I "stole" that idea from there but as a noob myself, > who's gonna just think that up!

iirc it was mtg90 who no doubt got it from . and so on.

"some" overachievers want to use 12 gauge from the board to the input jacks and i'll bet the board isn't sized for that, more like 16. if you're careful, BY HAND, you may be able to use a drill bit and carefully /slowly enlarge the hole to fit 14 but the 16 is scientifically adequate.

and don't be sell yourself "short' on the length of the leads to the horn and woofer from the board, being able to attach to the drivers well outside the box without touching the superb finish on that front baffle, yada yada yada.

(wish i had something to build besides room treatments - tons of fun )
I've been reading more and more lately, but he Catch-22 is the more I'm reading, the less work I get done!
I'll probably use 12, but not out of a misguided overachieving attempt. I don't have 14 or 16 lying around, so it's easier to run 12 and just whittle down the wire a bit.


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I dig the tips and video, thanks!
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post #39 of 97 Old 12-02-2016, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Received my shipping confirmation on the DIY Soundgroup kits yesterday, they should be delivered Saturday. I hope to make good progress over the week!
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post #40 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, annoyingly busy weekend (2 day training class AND my company Christmas party on Sat night), so I didn't get much done. Dry-fit the front baffle, and I'm going to have to trim down my support braces to make sure there's clearance for everything. It's too tight in a few spots, but I'm ok with that, given the fact that I just made a WAG on them in the first place.





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post #41 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I also stole a pretty genius idea from @ asarose247 , and made a setup to test fit the components for the crossover onto the board.

I basically took some left-over 2x6, cut in half, and put a screw thru the boards in a couple of spots. This lets them float, and I can test-fit all of the components on the board to start out:



Then I dry fit the pieces, just matching up what's written on the board with the stamped label on each.



This means that I can just stick the leads thru the board, test it out, and not have to snip them or bend them badly. From underneath it looks like this:



Lastly, a closeup of what it one board looks like, before any more steps:




Next thing to do is zip-tie and hot-glue everything in its place. Running out of time tonight tho, so that'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Credit so far also goes to @mtg90 , whose awesome video's step-by-step I'm following and referring back to frequently!
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post #42 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 05:19 PM
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Mount the inductors the other way around my friend.
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post #43 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Mount the inductors the other way around my friend.


You mean they're upside down? Are those feet supposed to be the glue points? And do I just pull the leads up and bend them out of the way to get the tinned part to the right depth for soldering?


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post #44 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 05:32 PM
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You mean they're upside down? Are those feet supposed to be the glue points? And do I just pull the leads up and bend them out of the way to get the tinned part to the right depth for soldering?


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Not the best photo to describe how I mounted them but its all i've got

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post #45 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Not the best photo to describe how I mounted them but its all i've got





Cool, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the help and bothering to stop by and let me know!


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post #46 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 05:53 PM
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That's what this community is for.

BTW I use big zipties to secure the inductors, not glue.
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post #47 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 05:54 PM
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+1 what @HFGuy said.

Couple recommendations:
1. Make sure you peel the insulation off the inductors before you solder them. Exposed wires should be visible from the top side to guarantee you have soldered bare wire on the bottom side of the board. It is ok to bend the wires up on the inductors a little bit to not have the insulated part on the hole.
2. When bending leads of components, try not to bend right at the component/lead junction. Make the bend so that the wire exiting the component is perpendicular to the component and the wire through the hole is perpendicular to the board. Try to make the wire bends smooth, not sharp.
3. Try to mount the capacitors so that the values are visible. This will come in handy later IF you need to troubleshoot.
4. When using hot glue, make sure it does not go through the holes. There were a couple instances where the glue prevented good connection.

It is great that you dry fitted before soldering!
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Last edited by ja00; 12-04-2016 at 06:02 PM.
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post #48 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 06:25 PM
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Looking good. It's smart of you to do a dry fit and see what goes where and how things fit together. The dry fit allows you to fine-tune braces and placement of things. That cautious methodology will serve you well in this hobby.

I like the bracing; simple yet effective. I will probably use a variant of it in my sub builds. IMO, people tend to over-think bracing. This isn't engineering of a 2-mile-long cable suspension bridge or some other incredibly complicated and sensitive structure.

Take your time with the crossovers; you've received excellent advice so far. If in doubt, STOP, take a picture or two and ask. IME, the two most important things when soldering crossovers together are ensuring a good solder joint and avoiding solder bridges. Of course, having the correct components in the correct place goes without saying!
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post #49 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 06:29 PM
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Best solder advice I can give after teaching hundred of baby engineers of the years - Use the joint to melt the solder, not the soldering iron itself.
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post #50 of 97 Old 12-04-2016, 06:35 PM
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Personally, I didn't let any of the colored/red insulated part of the wires enter into the holes. I had only the exposed portion of the wire enter the holes. It makes for easier soldering and less of a need to troubleshoot later in order to check that you properly removed all of the insulation before soldering. Ja00's pic is a good example.
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post #51 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post
That's what this community is for.

BTW I use big zipties to secure the inductors, not glue.
I'm OCD, so I'm planning to use both. Glue to get it in place, then zip tie to keep it there. That's my plan for everything big/heavy enough that I worry about it moving as the driver thrashes.

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Originally Posted by ja00 View Post
Couple recommendations:
1. Make sure you peel the insulation off the inductors before you solder them. Exposed wires should be visible from the top side to guarantee you have soldered bare wire on the bottom side of the board. It is ok to bend the wires up on the inductors a little bit to not have the insulated part on the hole.
3. Try to mount the capacitors so that the values are visible. This will come in handy later IF you need to troubleshoot.
1. I knew that the insulation had to be out of the way, but didn't even know I could remove it. I was just planning to pull them back out 'til a non-insulated part was poking thru.
3. Definitely, that's why the stickers are still on some of them! At least 'til after I solder.


One thing I noticed in your picture was that you had the zip ties over the fabric wrapping the inductor. Is that coincidence/looks/preference, or necessary?

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Looking good. It's smart of you to do a dry fit and see what goes where and how things fit together. The dry fit allows you to fine-tune braces and placement of things. That cautious methodology will serve you well in this hobby.

I like the bracing; simple yet effective. I will probably use a variant of it in my sub builds. IMO, people tend to over-think bracing. This isn't engineering of a 2-mile-long cable suspension bridge or some other incredibly complicated and sensitive structure.

Take your time with the crossovers; you've received excellent advice so far. If in doubt, STOP, take a picture or two and ask. IME, the two most important things when soldering crossovers together are ensuring a good solder joint and avoiding solder bridges. Of course, having the correct components in the correct place goes without saying!

Thanks! The dry-fit is more of a necessity, since I had no measurements on the baffle and KNEW there was a 1/1000000 chance that I'd guess right. The bracing isn't really my idea, I just checked out some build threads, the pictures on DIY Soundgroup, and re-created them. Credit there goes really to Erich.

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Best solder advice I can give after teaching hundred of baby engineers of the years - Use the joint to melt the solder, not the soldering iron itself.
Good call, thanks! I watched mtg90's video a bunch of times, but didn't notice he was intentionally doing that 'til you mentioned it.

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Personally, I didn't let any of the colored/red insulated part of the wires enter into the holes. I had only the exposed portion of the wire enter the holes. It makes for easier soldering and less of a need to troubleshoot later in order to check that you properly removed all of the insulation before soldering. Ja00's pic is a good example.
Another good tip, thanks!


All of this stuff should make the build simpler, and I think I'm going to have to take more pics if I want this thread to serve as a "Idiots Guide to Your First Speaker Build".
Thanks for all the comments and help, please keep 'em coming!!
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post #52 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 08:03 AM
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Depending on the insulation rating, you can heat it up enough to melt it and remove it, or scrape it off. But yeah, your method of just using the already exposed part is best because it is already tinned.

It's best to keep away from the wires when using zip tie to avoid damage, but not required. Should be fine either way. Some of these inductors don't have the black fabric in the middle so it is not possible to avoid the wire. The air core inductors don't even have these. Just be careful not to nick the wires when working on them. But really should not be an issue.
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post #53 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 08:27 AM
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Depending on the insulation rating, you can heat it up enough to melt it and remove it, or scrape it off. But yeah, your method of just using the already exposed part is best because it is already tinned.
If it was that easy to remove the enamel off of the inductor wires with a soldering iron than you could never reliably solder any inductor.
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post #54 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 08:54 AM
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If it was that easy to remove the enamel off of the inductor wires with a soldering iron than you could never reliably solder any inductor.
I did not mean heat it up with a soldering iron, sorry I should have been more specific. Although I have used some wires in the past that are solder strippable, but then again I had a solder bath.

I meant using some kind of light source like a match, butane lighter or even your stove. But this will only work if the insulation rating is not that high and I don't know what the rating of those wires are.
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post #55 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja00 View Post
I meant using some kind of light source like a match, butane lighter or even your stove. But this will only work if the insulation rating is not that high and I don't know what the rating of those wires are.

It sounds like I should just stay away from that step. We'll see how much excess I "really" have left, after I flip those right side up.
The plan for now is to just give them a little more bend up top, if possible.
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post #56 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
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I did not mean heat it up with a soldering iron, sorry I should have been more specific. Although I have used some wires in the past that are solder strippable, but then again I had a solder bath.

I meant using some kind of light source like a match, butane lighter or even your stove. But this will only work if the insulation rating is not that high and I don't know what the rating of those wires are.
Are you talking about Litz wire ?
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post #57 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, a little bit of progress today, but not much. In order to keep it all accurate, I took off most of the components, straightened the leads, and re-placed them with the labeling showing, better arches, etc. As a result, all I got done was that, hot-gluing, and the zip ties. Ran out of time before I could get the soldering done, but that should be pretty quick and easy tomorrow. (Famous last words...)

What say you gents?



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post #58 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 06:29 PM
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Looks nice, I can't wait to see the finished product.
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post #59 of 97 Old 12-05-2016, 09:27 PM
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That looks good.

It may seem like all this prep work is unnecessary or waste of time even but trust me it pays off in the end, assuming of course this will not be your last crossover build. Once you get on the habit of spending more time up front to make sure everything is correct, you will spend a lot less time with actual soldering and frustration later on. No different than measuring twice, cutting once.
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post #60 of 97 Old 12-06-2016, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz2o4 View Post
Looks nice, I can't wait to see the finished product.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja00 View Post
That looks good.

It may seem like all this prep work is unnecessary or waste of time even but trust me it pays off in the end, assuming of course this will not be your last crossover build. Once you get on the habit of spending more time up front to make sure everything is correct, you will spend a lot less time with actual soldering and frustration later on. No different than measuring twice, cutting once.

Don't worry, the plan also calls for 4 Volt 6 as surrounds.
I really am going super slow b/c I have a feeling this is one of those times where problems compound and speed kills. I wanted to just open the package, heat up the glue gun, stick and solder, but I'd have already had problems. All those inductors would've been upside down, almost every piece's label was unreadable, and the leads weren't as pretty. I've probably spent 3x as long as needed on these, but if that means they all work the first time, it's worth it!
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