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-   -   SKHorn (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2687769-skhorn.html)

dsl1 12-22-2016 09:27 AM

SKHorn
 
Well, here we go again.

@Ricci likes designing crazy subs for us to build. I like building things.

Gjallarhorns: Built a pair of these four years ago (where did the time go....) to replace my DTS-10. Build thread here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html - they are fantastic subs but when I moved to a new house they unfortunately do not fit.

As much as I enjoyed racing @lukeamdman to see who could drill pocket holes faster and get them done, @baniels decided to build a CNC in his garage because he is cool like that. Few months later and more money then he probably wanted to spend, we had a working machine.

Othorn: After some hand holding from @baniels on how to model things in Solidworks. Next thing I know I have an Othorn built: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...d-2-build.html - After that I fell off the map. Logged back into AVS a year or two later with a couple dozen requests for flatpacks in my inbox. Sorry about that guys...

New house: So I got a new house and I don't have room for the Ghorns. I made a thread asking for some advice: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...big-small.html and everyone was super boring. "Go small, can't put a big sub there, etc etc etc"....

Enter the SKHorn:
The reason I keep logging back into AVS / Data-bass is to see if Josh has come up with something new.

Well, he has and I can fit it under my TV!: SKHorn

Note: This is a PA sub and not the ideal home theater sub.

http://i.imgur.com/NJjLFY6.jpg?2
http://i.imgur.com/skije4f.png?2

I already have access to a pair of B&C 21SW152-4's to test it out so why not.

My turn to model it:

http://i.imgur.com/s4NFmyB.jpg?1

Few modifications and got the ok from Josh to make some sawdust:

http://i.imgur.com/GRqsIYx.jpg?2
http://i.imgur.com/sB5Z5FC.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/tENqzTA.jpg?1

Waiting on a part for the CNC so no more progress until Wednesday but it's happening :-)

Edit: 2/4/17:

Build photos of first one here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post49417345

Build photos of three more here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post50052729 and here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post50097585 and here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post50113945

Finished second set here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post50162577

Some quick measurements - Ricci's will be better: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post50360865

dsl1 12-22-2016 09:28 AM

reserved just cuz

baniels 12-22-2016 09:36 AM

Keeping an eye on the dust bin? :p

Looking good. The slots for amp storage is a great idea.

dsl1 12-22-2016 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baniels (Post 49202665)
Keeping an eye on the dust bin? :p

Looking good. The slots for amp storage is a great idea.

I want to fill up that dust bin. Damn 1/4" shafts...

HFGuy 12-22-2016 10:21 AM

Checking in.

N8DOGG 12-22-2016 10:45 AM

Man, CNC stuff is just so awesome! Looks like a cool build!

lukeamdman 12-22-2016 11:20 AM

Pure awesome.

eng-399 12-22-2016 01:27 PM

Nice! Subscribed
Cant wait to see this finished!

mtg90 12-22-2016 02:12 PM

How do you get those drivers in there? I am guessing they go in before the last few braces but is it then a once they are in they are not coming out kind of deal?

michaelddd 12-22-2016 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtg90 (Post 49211881)
How do you get those drivers in there? I am guessing they go in before the last few braces but is it then a once they are in they are not coming out kind of deal?

That was my question too. I have built folded horns before and the cabs have access panels. Those are some expensive drivers; I would think you would want to recone them or whatever if you let the magic smoke out. Also, destroying such an awesome piece of cab engineering to get the drivers out is a real shame.

Also: Looking at the Hornresp FR chart it looks like the FR drops like a brick around 35Hz. Are you intending to use this cab for HT or for music? Sorry if I missed something...

That said: There is so much audio badassery on this forum...makes me proud just to witness it. *wipes tear away*

asarose247 12-22-2016 03:04 PM

Nice -very, very nice

when I first saw the fold, i immediately thought of the Decware WO32 but after reviewing that pic,

WRONG! -very, very wrong . . .

what got my attention there was this: (red my emphasis)

"The WO32 subwoofer brings musical truth to bass in a way that all discerning audiophiles can appreciate.

To listen to it once is to understand the definition of speed."

Whaaaaa?

back to the drawing board

and subbed

Bill Fitzmaurice 12-22-2016 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelddd (Post 49212497)
Looking at the Hornresp FR chart it looks like the FR drops like a brick around 35Hz.

That's because it's a band pass box. The pathway in front of the drivers resembles a horn, but it's way too short, and the mouth areas far too small, to work as one. Think of it as a manifold band pass with an extended manifold. Not that there's anything wrong with that, so long as it does what the OP wants it to do.

chrapladm 12-22-2016 04:55 PM

Thanks for linking Ricci's thread. Forgot about this horn altogether.

filtor1 12-22-2016 05:32 PM

Looks incredible! Music only?

dsl1 12-22-2016 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtg90 (Post 49211881)
How do you get those drivers in there? I am guessing they go in before the last few braces but is it then a once they are in they are not coming out kind of deal?

Here is a render of the back to make it more clear.

http://i.imgur.com/8G4WFIY.jpg?1

There is also space to do a cutout for the SP-6000 plate amp or the iPAL amp on the hatch. This way you can interchange hatches based on the situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelddd (Post 49212497)
Also: Looking at the Hornresp FR chart it looks like the FR drops like a brick around 35Hz. Are you intending to use this cab for HT or for music? Sorry if I missed something...

That said: There is so much audio badassery on this forum...makes me proud just to witness it. *wipes tear away*

I am going to use it for movies for a bit. My room is tiny and I have a raised floor with great gain. Seems the real use for this is large venues for music. I'm sure @Ricci can give you a better explanation. He mentioned that he thinks it will go lower once actually measured and there is the option to block a port to make the tuning lower. However, it's never going to be the ideal home theater sub solo. Currently you'd be tough pressed to beat the Gjallarhorn as a single sub for home theater duty since it strong down to ~15hz.

I hear you on the audio badassery. Always fun for me to learn from all you smart audio guys and see the cool stuff people make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtor1 (Post 49216625)
Looks incredible! Music only?

Thanks! See above :)

Samps 12-22-2016 07:52 PM

The original horn resp that josh posted showed this digging deeper down to 25hz. Was that only with the ipal or did this design change?

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/uploads...1478903034.jpg

dsl1 12-22-2016 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samps (Post 49219713)
The original horn resp that josh posted showed this digging deeper down to 25hz. Was that only with the ipal or did this design change?

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/uploads...1478903034.jpg

Not sure, I used the horn resp he posted after I said I had the SW152's so maybe it is the ipals? Perhaps he will chime in.

Hoodcom 12-22-2016 08:22 PM

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the progress on this! Would be neat to have one of these to go with my Othorn pair, too bad I don't have the space for that. :D

d_c 12-22-2016 08:37 PM

Way to go paving the road with this one!

michaelddd 12-22-2016 09:04 PM

That new pic you posted cleared up a lot of questions. Very smart design! Access cover for installing/swapping the drivers and the access cover is big enough to double as a mounting surface for a plate amp! How cool is that?

I'm not a math guy, but when I saw the pics/design of this sub, my gut said "for music." But down to 20Hz and maybe lower with room gain is still very acceptable, especially considering the SPL this cab can put out with the right amp. Quality over quantity...to a point...and then we all love some overkill. :D

Ricci 12-22-2016 09:20 PM

This is a 6th order bandpass horn / slot loaded whatever you want to call it. Doesn't matter. Same concept as the MAUL cab. Actually this one was first. This is my new live / sound reinforcement sub. Not designed for HT or home audio at all really but dsl1 expressed interest in building one for fun so here we are. Its a music bass range cab intended to cover down to 25 to 30Hz with extreme levels of headroom and good sensitivity from a modestly sized cab (For a pro style sub weighed against the extension and output available.)

I sent dsl1 a sim with the 21sw152 drivers that was posted earlier. I'll be using the Ipal's. On paper its flat to 30Hz with the excursion minimum at 30Hz or so. Should be solid down to maybe 25Hz. Very similar to the Othorn extension wise. If a vent is plugged on each side the tuning drops to the 25Hz range. In theory it could be run with a single vent open on each side which would tune the vented section near 19Hz but it would be way under ported. 54x30x24. About the same size range as many of the best double 18 vented pro subs but with higher headroom and hopefully lower distortion and driver noise. Needs testing of course.

LTD02 12-23-2016 12:27 AM

@Ricci
...and it looks cool too!

michaelddd 12-23-2016 03:57 AM

Totally get it now. It's a PA cab. The inset handles all around should've been my first clue. Very nice CNC design work there as well. Cutting all that by hand with an acceptable level of accuracy would take a week.

Ricci 12-23-2016 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelddd (Post 49225833)
Totally get it now. It's a PA cab.

Exactly!

dsl1 12-23-2016 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samps (Post 49219713)
The original horn resp that josh posted showed this digging deeper down to 25hz. Was that only with the ipal or did this design change?

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/uploads...1478903034.jpg

Stealing Josh's response from the Data-Bass thread to answer this question:

"Look closely at both sims. There are 2 responses. One with all vents open going to 30Hz and one with a vent blocked on each side which extends to 25Hz. Thats probably what is being seen. Like I said I expect the tuning to come in a hair lower on the real thing."

diy speaker guy 12-23-2016 12:04 PM

Ricci is definitely the man when it comes to putting a huge amount of very expensive Sd in a very small box - this thing is like modern art. I mean if I had the money I would probably decorate my house with sculptures like the drawing in post 15 - as shown without the top. This is just stunningly aesthetic engineering.

I don't want to swing too far off topic here in somebody else's build thread so I'll just post a few pics and drop it. For those that like this style of box design but can't afford the magnificent Rockford or Ipal drivers, for those that want a MUCH lower tuning, for those that have more space than money, here's an alternate design.

This is the same style of design with the ported back chamber and the horn shaped front chamber. This uses a single B&C 21sw115 which is a good bit cheaper than even the 21sw152. And it's got a 10 hz low knee. Shown with and without 8 hz 4th order high pass and 36 hz 1st order lowpass (lowpass for contouring and flattening response). It's only using 320 watts peak and pressures on the cone are extraordinarily low. This would be a very low distortion sub and has about enough output to directly compete with 4 - 8 superwoofers with 30 mm xmax in 4 cu ft sealed boxes (at 10 hz and up - obviously the sealed boxes would have the advantage below 10 hz). Except the sealed boxes would want upwards of 4000 watts EACH whereas this needs only 320. If you put this in a perfectly rigid concrete corner you could add up to 10 or so db to this, and if you have 20 db of room gain at 10 hz you could add another 20 db, making this very effective at 10 hz, and very cheap considering the performance. And for tunes that don't go lower than 30 hz (above the excursion limited region) you've got over 1500 watts worth of headroom on the table above what's shown.

EDIT - I'm not suggesting anyone actually build this, just that everyone should fire up Hornresp and play around. This style of 6th order bandpass is very effective with smaller than horn type box sizes and can have a really wide bandwidth.

https://s30.postimg.org/59bngrj69/sw115_slot.png

chrapladm 12-24-2016 08:04 AM

Does this cab have enough room to allow for screws in all the slots?

I was curious if there was enough room for screws on the brace in the chamber that is on the same panel as the cutout. Hard to tell from the drawing but maybe no?.

Looking forward to building this cabinet. My other designs have all been something similar but much larger. But with the price of materials here in OZ nothing has ever been built yet. SO this new smaller design of Ricci's is much cheaper for me so its a win win.

dsl1 12-24-2016 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrapladm (Post 49253921)
Does this cab have enough room to allow for screws in all the slots?

I was curious if there was enough room for screws on the brace in the chamber that is on the same panel as the cutout. Hard to tell from the drawing but maybe no?.

Looking forward to building this cabinet. My other designs have all been something similar but much larger. But with the price of materials here in OZ nothing has ever been built yet. SO this new smaller design of Ricci's is much cheaper for me so its a win win.

Not 100% sure which brace you mean. Here are some internal cutout views. Perhaps they will answer your question.

http://i.imgur.com/Qq0rgxe.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/3dol79y.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/jKYHs0c.png?1

Samps 12-24-2016 09:41 AM

I think he means those thin braces above and below the driver. With 3/4 lumber and what appears to be about an inch thick brace you should be able to use screws there. Of course with Cnc you won't need many fasteners to help with assembly.

lukeamdman 12-24-2016 11:16 AM

Is this finished yet? ;)


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