(Off topic) Looking for opinions on HDMI from the DIY'ers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 03:13 AM - Thread Starter
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(Off topic) Looking for opinions on HDMI from the DIY'ers

Hey guys, I know that this doesn't belong here, but I want opinions from the DIY'ers here as I trust this small community more than some others.

I need to purchase a 25ft HDMI cable to connect my PJ to my AVR and was wondering if you guys think that the brand and price are of less importance? For example, I know that buying expensive speaker wire is for the most part a waist of money, but do HDMI cables fall into that category? I went by my local Best Buy and their cheapest one that was 25ft was like $150.

Are there any particular 25ft to 50ft cables that won't break the bank you would recommend ? Are MonoPrice HDMI cables up to par in 25ft to 50ft lengths?
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post #2 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 03:37 AM
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monoprice.com works for me.
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post #3 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 03:41 AM
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Somewhere on AVS there is a list of HDMI cables that will work at long lengths such as 25-50 feet because some unpowered cables won't do it. I do believe monoprice cables usually work well for these long distances. I think if you only need 25 feet then almost any cable will work. Just make sure you get the newest standard.
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post #4 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 05:11 AM
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This is the one I'm using. I bought the 25' length but it's currently out of stock.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2
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post #5 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 06:49 AM
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What type of signal? 1080P? Or 4K 4:4:4 chroma? The latter requires lots of bandwidth that many cables can't manage at that distance. There's a longass thread here on that issue: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...eep-color.html

If 1080p is all you need, that's easy to do.
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post #6 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 06:57 AM
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Monoprice. I have a 50' active Monoprice hdmi cable that supports 4k. Cable worked great and was less that $60. You don't necessarily need an active cable for that distance. But, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

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post #7 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 07:08 AM
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Active doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything. I tried an expensive Monster active cable that claimed 4K and 20gbs bandwidth, and it failed when actually used at that spec.
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post #8 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Monoprice. I have a 50' active Monoprice hdmi cable that supports 4k. Cable worked great and was less that $60. You don't necessarily need an active cable for that distance. But, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
From what I've read on the subject, active cables don't work for passing 4K HDR. They enable longer runs of cable, but do not have the required bandwidth.

The ONLY way to get a reliable cable is to get one with this logo.
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post #9 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darknite9099 View Post
From what I've read on the subject, active cables don't work for passing 4K HDR. They enable longer runs of cable, but do not have the required bandwidth.

The ONLY way to get a reliable cable is to get one with this logo.
Well, I'm sorry, you've read and I've experienced. I don't know what to tell you. If it didn't pass 4k and HDR, I'm sure it wouldn't have displayed it on my tv.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. Simply stating what I experienced.

Here's what I have Monoprice Cabernet

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Last edited by Rowan611; 03-16-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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post #10 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 07:40 AM
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I also want to add that I'm not using that cable now. We no longer live in the house I was using it in and it is packed and in storage. However, I've watched the same movies on my tv using a much shorter, 4k hdr capable hdmi cable and they look exactly the same.

When I first started using the 50' cable I had the Panasonic UDH player. It allows you to see all the information regarding the signal being sent and received. And, according to what it displayed, the cable was sending 4k UHD HDR @ 24fps.

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post #11 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Well, I'm sorry, you've read and I've experienced. I don't know what to tell you. If it didn't pass 4k and HDR, I'm sure it wouldn't have displayed it on my tv.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. Simply stating what I experienced.

Here's what I have Monoprice Cabernet
Thats the beauty of reading and research. You can avoid the mistakes without actually having to make them. You are correct, I haven't experienced it cause I didn't want the hassle. Too many accounts on too many forums of this not certified cable worked, but an identical one didn't. Or cursing a component like a UHD player or AVR, and changing settings endlessly, wasting hours, and finally solving the problem by getting the correct premium certified cable.

Cables were the easiest and least expensive thing to just switch out and do right from the start.

That said, I am glad your's worked!
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post #12 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 08:20 AM
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i have a 50' monoprice cabernet. it works well and ive never had a problem with it running 1080p to my projector. No UHD-HDR yet.
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post #13 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darknite9099 View Post
Thats the beauty of reading and research. You can avoid the mistakes without actually having to make them. You are correct, I haven't experienced it cause I didn't want the hassle. Too many accounts on too many forums of this not certified cable worked, but an identical one didn't. Or cursing a component like a UHD player or AVR, and changing settings endlessly, wasting hours, and finally solving the problem by getting the correct premium certified cable.

Cables were the easiest and least expensive thing to just switch out and do right from the start.

That said, I am glad your's worked!
I wouldn't have recommended a cable if it didn't work. And, Monoprice offers a lifetime guarantee on their cables. Not all cables are inexpensive. Didn't someone a few posts up spend $150 on a Monster cable that wouldn't pass UHD?

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post #14 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
I wouldn't have recommended a cable if it didn't work. And, Monoprice offers a lifetime guarantee on their cables. Not all cables are inexpensive. Didn't someone a few posts up spend $150 on a Monster cable that wouldn't pass UHD?
Monoprice does offer a lifetime guarantee, BUT only one line is Certified Premium High Speed,
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15428
Available in lengths from 3'-25' priced from $4.00-$20.00

Easier to be sure than sorry. Go ahead, read through the OPPO UDP-203 owners thread... 12,000+ posts, easily over 1000 of those are people who have unsolvable problems, until they gave in and just got the right cable, a premium certified cable.

Probably 200 posts are people who didn't believe it could possibly be a cable. They wasted days or weeks troubleshooting, throwing blame here and there, with others trying to help, saying just get the right cable. When they finally did, they still couldn't believe it, but after everything short of buying all new AVR, UDP player, and display, the proof was right there. The cable did indeed make and/or break the entire system.

Whether you spend $1000 or $20,000 on a system, why let a a $30-$100 set of HDMI cables ruin it?

Again, great that your cable, and some others have luck with the non-certified stuff, but I don't want the frustration and grief. I want to spend my time enjoying viewing, not troubleshooting.

I hope yours will keep working, but there is a good chance that it may quit after a firmware update to one of your components when a new standard like Dolby Vision gets enabled. (Random example)

Do it right, do it once. Save yourself some grief, look for the Premium Certified Seal!
OK, I'm probably done with this subject.
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post #15 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Hey guys, I know that this doesn't belong here, but I want opinions from the DIY'ers here as I trust this small community more than some others.

I need to purchase a 25ft HDMI cable to connect my PJ to my AVR and was wondering if you guys think that the brand and price are of less importance? For example, I know that buying expensive speaker wire is for the most part a waist of money, but do HDMI cables fall into that category? I went by my local Best Buy and their cheapest one that was 25ft was like $150.

Are there any particular 25ft to 50ft cables that won't break the bank you would recommend ? Are MonoPrice HDMI cables up to par in 25ft to 50ft lengths?
Hey Tip24/96, to honestly answer your question and make a good recommendation, we need some more info. Are you doing 1080p? Do you have any 4K or 4K HDR in your system?

If you are doing 1080p only Rowan611's suggestion of an active red mere type cable will work great. Be sure to get the shortest length possible in any case to insure signal integrity. If you can make a 25' work instead of a 35' get the 25'. If a 35' will work instead of a 50' get the 35'.
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by darknite9099 View Post
Monoprice does offer a lifetime guarantee, BUT only one line is Certified Premium High Speed,
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15428
Available in lengths from 3'-25' priced from $4.00-$20.00

Easier to be sure than sorry. Go ahead, read through the OPPO UDP-203 owners thread... 12,000+ posts, easily over 1000 of those are people who have unsolvable problems, until they gave in and just got the right cable, a premium certified cable.

Probably 200 posts are people who didn't believe it could possibly be a cable. They wasted days or weeks troubleshooting, throwing blame here and there, with others trying to help, saying just get the right cable. When they finally did, they still couldn't believe it, but after everything short of buying all new AVR, UDP player, and display, the proof was right there. The cable did indeed make and/or break the entire system.

Whether you spend $1000 or $20,000 on a system, why let a a $30-$100 set of HDMI cables ruin it?

Again, great that your cable, and some others have luck with the non-certified stuff, but I don't want the frustration and grief. I want to spend my time enjoying viewing, not troubleshooting.

I hope yours will keep working, but there is a good chance that it may quit after a firmware update to one of your components when a new standard like Dolby Vision gets enabled. (Random example)

Do it right, do it once. Save yourself some grief, look for the Premium Certified Seal!
OK, I'm probably done with this subject.
I have a 203. No issues. I've never had a $30 cable ruin anything, YMMV.





Typed on a little keyboard, excuse any grammatical errors.

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post #17 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 11:39 AM
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I've got the 25 foot Amazon in wall cables hooked up right now and they're doing fine.

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post #18 of 31 Old 03-16-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
I wouldn't have recommended a cable if it didn't work. And, Monoprice offers a lifetime guarantee on their cables. Not all cables are inexpensive. Didn't someone a few posts up spend $150 on a Monster cable that wouldn't pass UHD?
I believe the old redmere chips did not have the bandwidth for 4k HDR, but the Cabernet line uses the more recent chip that does

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post #19 of 31 Old 03-17-2017, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darknite9099 View Post
Hey Tip24/96, to honestly answer your question and make a good recommendation, we need some more info. Are you doing 1080p? Do you have any 4K or 4K HDR in your system?

If you are doing 1080p only Rowan611's suggestion of an active red mere type cable will work great. Be sure to get the shortest length possible in any case to insure signal integrity. If you can make a 25' work instead of a 35' get the 25'. If a 35' will work instead of a 50' get the 35'.
Thanks for all the replies fellows. I will be using a 1080p projector, no UHD or 4K so hopefully the MonoPrice units will be ok. I honestly do not see myself getting 4K for a long time unless the price on 4K projectors come down significantly and they start showing up on the used market for lower prices.

Next question: do you guys have any creative ideas on how to best hide an HDMI cable that goes from a room next to my dedicated HT through a cinder block wall to a ceiling mounted projector with no access to the attic or inside any of the walls?
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-17-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Thanks for all the replies fellows. I will be using a 1080p projector, no UHD or 4K so hopefully the MonoPrice units will be ok. I honestly do not see myself getting 4K for a long time unless the price on 4K projectors come down significantly and they start showing up on the used market for lower prices.

Next question: do you guys have any creative ideas on how to best hide an HDMI cable that goes from a room next to my dedicated HT through a cinder block wall to a ceiling mounted projector with no access to the attic or inside any of the walls?
Check the Wiremold products at Home Depot.
Basically ceiling or wall mounted conduit.
You can paint it to match the surrounding area for better blending/ hiding.
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post #21 of 31 Old 03-24-2017, 05:24 PM
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@darknite9099

I'm going to pick up two of those Monoprice HDMI Certified cables to do some "testing". I'm ordering one 25' and one 3'. I'll test them in my new theater once we move in. Testing with my current setup is a PITA. I will report back. Now, this will be a simple visual test, as I have no way to scientifically test it.

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post #22 of 31 Old 03-24-2017, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Hey guys, I know that this doesn't belong here, but I want opinions from the DIY'ers here as I trust this small community more than some others.

I need to purchase a 25ft HDMI cable to connect my PJ to my AVR and was wondering if you guys think that the brand and price are of less importance? For example, I know that buying expensive speaker wire is for the most part a waist of money, but do HDMI cables fall into that category? I went by my local Best Buy and their cheapest one that was 25ft was like $150.

Are there any particular 25ft to 50ft cables that won't break the bank you would recommend ? Are MonoPrice HDMI cables up to par in 25ft to 50ft lengths?
If you are looking for a cable that can pass the full spec of 18Gbps, then you need to be looking at certified HDMI cables and you will not find one over 25'. There are some 30' cables that may work, but past 30' and the only option is fiber optic and even then, I would only look at Celerity. if I can help answer more questions, shoot me an email.
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post #23 of 31 Old 03-25-2017, 06:24 AM
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I have an unproven theory that the reason why they can't go much longer than ~25ft is because they are using thin 30AWG wires internally.


My theory is that if one were to take a cheap 3ft dollar store HDMI cable, and spliced in some 14AWG wire per pin, that it would go MUCH further.
The resistance of a 25ft hair-thin wire has got to be astronomically large. Like 1000 ohms instead of 0-ohms. LOL
They don't make cables that thick because metal costs money, and all HDMI cables are from China. So a DIY-cable might be in order.

Or just go the lazy-man route and drop several hundred on a fiber optic cable rated for 4K.

Maybe there is a high-frequency reason they use thin wires, but beyond that, it makes no sense.

My theater has a 200ft Cat-6 cable at 1gbps and then a cheap 25ft monoprice HDMI in 4K/60Hz, and I can watch 60/4K on youtube no problem.
But that is lossy YT compression, not BD-quality + Atmos.
There are 8K youtube videos, and they do download and play in my browser, but I don't have an 8K screen to actually view it with. 4K/60 is my current limit ATM.
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I have an unproven theory that the reason why they can't go much longer than ~25ft is because they are using thin 30AWG wires internally..
Bandwidth limitations are caused by cable capacitance, and that's the product of the thickness and dielectric constant of the insulation, not the gauge of the wire. Thinner wires allow for thicker insulation in the same overall cable diameter. The main problem with HDMI cables is the number of conductors crammed into a small overall diameter wire doesn't allow for thick enough insulation on the individual conductors for low enough capacitance for very long cable runs.
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post #25 of 31 Old 03-27-2017, 12:05 PM
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While this discussion is open, in a situation where you are running HDMI from the front of the room, behind the equipment cabinet, through the wall and ceiling (let's say a distance of 30' give or take) to a projector, it there any advantage/disadvantage to using the plug-in type wall jacks at each end vs. using a "passthrough" wall plate instead? I'd prefer the cleaner option of having jacks, not to mention the additional unsealed holes in the shell, but if they degrade quality then I'd work around them.
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post #26 of 31 Old 03-27-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
While this discussion is open, in a situation where you are running HDMI from the front of the room, behind the equipment cabinet, through the wall and ceiling (let's say a distance of 30' give or take) to a projector, it there any advantage/disadvantage to using the plug-in type wall jacks at each end vs. using a "passthrough" wall plate instead? I'd prefer the cleaner option of having jacks, not to mention the additional unsealed holes in the shell, but if they degrade quality then I'd work around them.
They definitely will have some signal loss, but it's workable. Right now I'm using jacks that are connected by a 25 foot cable with a 3 foot from AVR to wall and a 6 from the wall to the tv and its working.

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post #27 of 31 Old 03-27-2017, 06:14 PM
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Ok, my inner redneck wants to cheat out of this. If the max run for 4k is around 25 feet, could one Daisy chain receivers and HDMI cables? This isn't a problem I have it just seemed a funny workaround.
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post #28 of 31 Old 03-27-2017, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
My theory is that if one were to take a cheap 3ft dollar store HDMI cable, and spliced in some 14AWG wire per pin, that it would go MUCH further...They don't make cables that thick because metal costs money...
Actually, I can tell you from an Apple project I worked on that connecting larger gauge wire to the CONNECTOR pins becomes a problem. There is not enough space. It might be possible in some cases, but only by hand and with higher rejects.
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post #29 of 31 Old 03-28-2017, 05:43 AM
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I picked up a used Celerity DFO35p, now the current batch for sale are rated at 18Gbps, mine (as usual) is rated at 16Gbps, im hoping they didnt redesign because 16G's didnt work out for 4K :0/ Sent them an email asking this question and got no reply......

Best i can run now is 1080p, which was fine. Time will tell, seems the NvideaShieldTV is better than the Roku, so i will know soon. I will probably pick up a cheap 35' hdmi for the 1080p stuff, my Denon 4311 cant pass 4K

The HDMI section is busy with these same questions

As of Feb 20th still looking for a Marantz SR7010
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post #30 of 31 Old 03-28-2017, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortizer View Post
They definitely will have some signal loss, but it's workable. Right now I'm using jacks that are connected by a 25 foot cable with a 3 foot from AVR to wall and a 6 from the wall to the tv and its working.

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The OPPO 203 owner's thread has many reports of handshake issues when using wall plates with HDMI connectors. Each point of contact adds another failure point to the chain, especially on longer runs. Get a blank plate/ plate with a hole in it and run a single continuous length of HDMI cable. A clean look doesn't count for much if it won't pass the signal correctly.
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