Crown or iNuke for subs? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 27Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 56 Old 03-24-2017, 06:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blastermaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sunny Okanagan
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 601 Post(s)
Liked: 765
I have four subs in my theater - 3 Marty Cubes and a Full Marty and I'm powering them with two 6000DSPs. Yep, they're loud to my ears, so I put them in my adjacent cold room (my wife loves me for that). Now they stay cool and I can't hear them. If I didn't have that option I'd either do the fan mod (which I've read has led to amp failure for some) or get the Crowns. The only thing I don't know is if the Crown is capable of powering two fairly substantial subs? Are people here using the Crown for just one or two subs, I'm curious?
blastermaster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 56 Old 03-24-2017, 07:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 2,496
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
I have four subs in my theater - 3 Marty Cubes and a Full Marty and I'm powering them with two 6000DSPs. Yep, they're loud to my ears, so I put them in my adjacent cold room (my wife loves me for that)
Well maybe I was lucky and received two of the very limited addition, prototype Inukes with the super silencer fans I also had two 6000dsp running 2 UM18-22 and 4 15" MOFOs and couldn't hear the fans even after a viewing of Interstellar. Now, the voice coils of all six subs did take a pounding (heated to the point of smelling) during the really heavy and extended bass scenes
johnson636 is offline  
post #33 of 56 Old 03-24-2017, 09:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Posts: 1,057
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Why just the Crowns vs the inukes? There are many good amps to pick from (qsc, ashly, EV, etc.) I really like the qsc dca series (powerful and quiet.)
zora is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 56 Old 03-24-2017, 10:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 2,496
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by zora View Post
Why just the Crowns vs the inukes? There are many good amps to pick from (qsc, ashly, EV, etc.) I really like the qsc dca series (powerful and quiet.)
Aren't the comparable amp models for those manufacture at least twice as much as the 6000dsp?
mikeTRON250LM likes this.
johnson636 is offline  
post #35 of 56 Old 03-25-2017, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
Are people here using the Crown for just one or two subs, I'm curious?
This is feedback / experience I am looking for.
jwanck11 is offline  
post #36 of 56 Old 03-25-2017, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Well maybe I was lucky and received two of the very limited addition, prototype Inukes with the super silencer fans I also had two 6000dsp running 2 UM18-22 and 4 15" MOFOs and couldn't hear the fans even after a viewing of Interstellar. Now, the voice coils of all six subs did take a pounding (heated to the point of smelling) during the really heavy and extended bass scenes
You have made your opinion clear, thank you. I am looking for perspective - and new information to consider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zora View Post
Why just the Crowns vs the inukes? There are many good amps to pick from (qsc, ashly, EV, etc.) I really like the qsc dca series (powerful and quiet.)
Money is not an issue. So, with the amps you listed, do any of them also have dsp? Thanks!
jwanck11 is offline  
post #37 of 56 Old 03-25-2017, 06:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 2,496
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwanck11 View Post
You have made your opinion clear, thank you. I am looking for perspective - and new information to consider.

Money is not an issue.
New information in regards to what? Since the Inuke is a no go and you stated money is not an issue, then your options are endless. You must answer some questions to get the feedback you seek. Is on board dsp a must? Would you be open to amp + minidsp (requires a learning curve)? When you say, "money is not an issue" do you really mean that? Seriously, around here that can be taken literally There are guys around here with big wallets and aren't afraid to opened them up. You might consider the IPR7500 or the IPR5000. They are said to be more quiet than the Inuke and their dsp is on par. Are you looking to add subs down the road? Careful, I thought I two um18-22 were enough for me and now I have added 4 15" and 2 si hs24s.

Quote:
Are people here using the Crown for just one or two subs, I'm curious?
I would think that depends on the subs and enclosure being used and what the user's expectations are.
mikeTRON250LM likes this.
johnson636 is offline  
post #38 of 56 Old 03-25-2017, 08:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
gworrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Detroit
Posts: 831
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 415
For me, and probably for many others here, the inuke amps are more than adequate. I have a long list of things I would like to upgrade in my home theater. "Upgrade the Inukes" is not on the list. I have a 6000dsp, a Nu4-6000, and an older EP4000.

In fact, I have a Nady 1100 watt amp and a Crown XL1000 that I used bridged for sub duty that I would like to replace with a NU6000dsp. I am using those two amps with a Minidsp but I would still like to have the 6000dsp's limiter feature as well. I have driven my SI18 sub to distortion with the Nady in Edge of Tomorrow (not sure if I was overdriving the sub or clipping the amp or both) and using the limiter in the Inuke would be a simple way of controlling that.

I am sure there are better amps, but for some things, good enough is good enough. I don't see what a more expensive amp would do for me.
gworrel is offline  
post #39 of 56 Old 03-25-2017, 10:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,176
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked: 1525
I have the equivalent of 2 18" Dayton Ultimax drivers in my setup. Initially when I had a single sub I had the XLS2000 bridged. I felt it drove the single Dayton quite well.

After getting a second Dayton and switching to stereo, I feel that I do indeed need two amps for my setup.

As with ALL things, there are some VERY SPECIFIC reasons I need more power.

1. I have sealed subs, which means I need all the wattage I can get down low for SPL reasons.
2. My entire first floor is basically a single room, and its open to the loft upstairs. So again if I had a enclosed room, my power requirements would be smaller.

All this means is that if someone is or is not using a single amp to drive mutliple subs will vary based on variables specific to their setup, like mine above. If I had ported subs, and an enclosed room, a single XLS would be fine.

I have a buddy with 2 18" Ultimax's in 6 cubic foot sealed boxes and a single XLS2500 in a enclosed but fairly large room and he told me it gets 2x louder at full tilt than he would ever need
mikeTRON250LM likes this.

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is offline  
post #40 of 56 Old 03-25-2017, 01:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
filtor1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,406
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked: 240
I had the same exact question when I went to purchase an amp for my 4-18"s. I went back and forth between the two. I settled on the iNuke6000DSP for several reasons.

1. $330 shipped to my house.
2. The power difference between the two wouldn't overcome the cost difference.
3. The iNuke6000DSP can drive all four drivers in my cabinets very near their mechanical limits with the available power output.
4. Powerful on board DSP eliminates purchasing an external DSP that would be required with the Crown XLS2502.
5. I have an adjacent room to install the iNuke if the fan gets annoying.
6. Power and performance (DSP) per dollar can't be found anywhere else. Excluding used, refurbished, or clone amplifiers.

I can make a list of why I wanted the Crown XLS2502 as well.

1. Aesthetically far more pleasing.
2. Capability to turn off the front display.
3. More power than the iNuke at any frequency and would be more closely matched to the power handeling of my drivers.
4. Less noise from the fan.

Make your own list for each amp. Your needs, tastes, and preferences may lead you to a different conclusion.

If cost is no object, go SpeakerPower and miniDSP and you will never wonder if you are leaving performance on the table. I wish I could have gone that route, but my list was driven by my current situation.
filtor1 is offline  
post #41 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I looked up speaker power - and it seems all of their rack mounts are completely overkill for a 1000W driver. Also, the miniDSP is rca.

Still looking at options.......
jwanck11 is offline  
post #42 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 08:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
coytee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,655
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked: 433
I'll admit I'm not familiar with these amps... I'm also not sure how high a priority it is for you that the amp be quiet...

That said....why not look at a used Crown K2 (convection cooled, no fan noise at all) and mate it with an active crossover?
coytee is offline  
post #43 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 08:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,176
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwanck11 View Post
I looked up speaker power - and it seems all of their rack mounts are completely overkill for a 1000W driver. Also, the miniDSP is rca.

Still looking at options.......
I dont disagree, but here's the rub.... a lot of amps once you get down below 20hz can start to fade quick wattage wise.... speakerpower amps are not one of those....

I've been debating one of the SP2-4800 models for a long time.....

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is offline  
post #44 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Sound is a high priority for me. All of the components I am using are very quiet. The room will be fully sound treated. Other than my projector, there will essentially be no sound whatsoever other than from those watching the movie...

Good point on the loss from fading.

The other thing I am looking at is connections. I have BJC rca cables going from the 7.1 HTPC (Essence STX II) going to an 8802a. I had planned on XLR and SpeakOn otherwise. It seems the MiniDSP is RCA or optical (which is only 5.1)

The iNuke keeps coming back as the choice other than the darn noise.
jwanck11 is offline  
post #45 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 10:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,300
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3816 Post(s)
Liked: 3771
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
I dont disagree, but here's the rub.... a lot of amps once you get down below 20hz can start to fade quick wattage wise.... speakerpower amps are not one of those....

I've been debating one of the SP2-4800 models for a long time.....
sp2-8000 imo, great amp.
notnyt is offline  
post #46 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 10:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,176
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
sp2-8000 imo, great amp.
Wow, you are right, and not a lot more than the SP2-4800 either...

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is offline  
post #47 of 56 Old 03-26-2017, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 32
OK - that does look like a decent amp. I assume however I'd still need a dsp. So, looking for a dsp that can handle the right inputs and outputs.

Getting closer!

I appreciate all the help.
jwanck11 is offline  
post #48 of 56 Old 03-27-2017, 11:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1827 Post(s)
Liked: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwanck11 View Post
It seems the MiniDSP is RCA or optical (which is only 5.1)

MiniDSP has balanced models. They use Phoenix connectors. You can either cut your balanced cables (easy) or buy adapters.

MiniDSP balanced 2x4: https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...p-balanced-2x4
mikeTRON250LM likes this.
zeus33 is offline  
post #49 of 56 Old 03-27-2017, 12:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,176
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
MiniDSP has balanced models. They use Phoenix connectors. You can either cut your balanced cables (easy) or buy adapters.

MiniDSP balanced 2x4: https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...p-balanced-2x4
Yup, and then you can go nuts like me too and do this....

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is offline  
post #50 of 56 Old 03-28-2017, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Sinistre1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Yup, and then you can go nuts like me too and do this....
Running a Crown 3502 with a pair of sealed UM 15's and loving it. I HAVE heard the Crown fan come on... which actually annoys the hell out of me because that why I got it but its usually very brief.. It is loud though... well by my definition. That said I love the sound, the look and the all important "relay in the back so you don't have to get your lazy butt off the couch" capability. In the spirit of full disclosure, the pair are near field "end tables" and I am in an apartment... though the entire apartment is essentially open to the subs pressure wave so not sure how much gain im getting

I'm getting there....!!!
Sinistre1 is offline  
post #51 of 56 Old 03-10-2019, 05:57 AM
Senior Member
 
crimsonblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Maryland/DC/VA
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
The Crown is decent although no "real" DSP to be had,

Always the option to get a Mini DSP with balanced outputs so not a deal breaker as long as you don't require it to be built-in or have cost issues.
Resurrection an old but good thread:

What about the Crown DSP do people find to be lacking? I thought the most important part was to be able to add a high pass AND low pass filter (Band Pass) so that it didn't stretch too high or bottom out. Just curious! I currently use Crown XLS1002s as my main amps, and I have used both XLS1002 and iNuke 6000D amps for UM18-22 sub cubes. I'm looking to add more big subs for coverage purposes, and want to head in the right direction.

________________________________________________
Home theater build 1 | Black & Grey Theater 2 | Yet Unnamed Theater 3
Marantz AV7702mkII | Epson 5040 | 7.2.4 Elusive 1099 LCR + Volt 8 Atmos & Surrounds + Dual UM18 Subs
crimsonblue is offline  
post #52 of 56 Old 03-10-2019, 10:13 PM
Senior Member
 
notfastenough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: The Colony, TX
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonblue View Post
Resurrection an old but good thread:

What about the Crown DSP do people find to be lacking? I thought the most important part was to be able to add a high pass AND low pass filter (Band Pass) so that it didn't stretch too high or bottom out. Just curious! I currently use Crown XLS1002s as my main amps, and I have used both XLS1002 and iNuke 6000D amps for UM18-22 sub cubes. I'm looking to add more big subs for coverage purposes, and want to head in the right direction.
The frequencies are preset and don't go below 30 hz. In the HT environment, a 30 hz HPF means you're missing out on some of the really fun stuff. In the pro environment, that same filter can save the equipment from certain death.

If Crown offered the same (or slightly better) DSP than the inuke, I'm sure MANY people would get on that train leaving their noisy, XLR only input, non 12v triggered amps on the platform! There would be zero reason to open the case to void the warranty or modify it to power down.
notfastenough is offline  
post #53 of 56 Old 03-11-2019, 04:21 AM
Senior Member
 
crimsonblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Maryland/DC/VA
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
The frequencies are preset and don't go below 30 hz. In the HT environment, a 30 hz HPF means you're missing out on some of the really fun stuff. In the pro environment, that same filter can save the equipment from certain death.

If Crown offered the same (or slightly better) DSP than the inuke, I'm sure MANY people would get on that train leaving their noisy, XLR only input, non 12v triggered amps on the platform! There would be zero reason to open the case to void the warranty or modify it to power down.
Not going below 30hz? That's an urban myth that the units wouldn't put out sound below 20hz, but it was 100% debunked by Crown and folks on the forums who have measured the frequency response.

In my experience, they absolutely go down further, and I have the BandPass Crossover setting on mine set to 19hz-->80hz for UM18-22 Cubes. Plenty of action happening is in the 10-20hz range; there is some rolloff, but not more than the iNukes. Now, BandPass is the advanced DSP that Crown offers, so if you want to adjust PEQ, etc. - you could do that natively with an iNuke (accepting the risks of ownership) or go with the Crown and do a MiniDSP.

________________________________________________
Home theater build 1 | Black & Grey Theater 2 | Yet Unnamed Theater 3
Marantz AV7702mkII | Epson 5040 | 7.2.4 Elusive 1099 LCR + Volt 8 Atmos & Surrounds + Dual UM18 Subs
crimsonblue is offline  
post #54 of 56 Old 03-11-2019, 08:14 AM
Senior Member
 
notfastenough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: The Colony, TX
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonblue View Post
Not going below 30hz? That's an urban myth that the units wouldn't put out sound below 20hz, but it was 100% debunked by Crown and folks on the forums who have measured the frequency response.

In my experience, they absolutely go down further, and I have the BandPass Crossover setting on mine set to 19hz-->80hz for UM18-22 Cubes. Plenty of action happening is in the 10-20hz range; there is some rolloff, but not more than the iNukes. Now, BandPass is the advanced DSP that Crown offers, so if you want to adjust PEQ, etc. - you could do that natively with an iNuke (accepting the risks of ownership) or go with the Crown and do a MiniDSP.
Please let me know how you set a 19 hz filter on the XLS. Or are you using a miniDSP?

30 hz is the lowest my BP setting will go. There IS significant output decrease below the set point with the filter applied, that is the purpose. Don't believe me? Measure response before and after the BP filter is applied and post the results.

It sounds like the urban myth you bring up is amplifier roll off, which is a real thing. (To be clear, I wasn't referencing this at all) The question was about the DSP and that's all I was addressing.

When chasing 4 hz response with sealed subs, it is important to understand and account for. Most of us don't try or care for the roll off that the Crowns have because it happens outside what the rest of the system is capable of doing well.
notfastenough is offline  
post #55 of 56 Old 03-11-2019, 08:22 AM
Senior Member
 
crimsonblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Maryland/DC/VA
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 89
4hz!?! That’s definitely lower than I’m looking to go - kudos for that quest!!

Yeah, I think the urban myth confused a lot of people. It’s definitely rolloff, but I don’t find it so markedly different from my old iNuke.

I’ll do some more testing to see what’s happening in my room, but my goals are much easier at 18 or 19hz!

________________________________________________
Home theater build 1 | Black & Grey Theater 2 | Yet Unnamed Theater 3
Marantz AV7702mkII | Epson 5040 | 7.2.4 Elusive 1099 LCR + Volt 8 Atmos & Surrounds + Dual UM18 Subs
crimsonblue is offline  
post #56 of 56 Old 03-11-2019, 08:53 AM
Senior Member
 
notfastenough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: The Colony, TX
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 221
If you're running 1002 amps on um18s sealed cubes, turn off the BP filter. You won't hurt them due to over excursion. Just make sure the amps don't clip (red leds). You'll thank me later

Seriously, with the BP, there is a major handicap on a very capable setup.
notfastenough is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off