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post #61 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 06:58 PM
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Is Gorilla still able to do CNC?
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post #62 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Is Gorilla still able to do CNC?
I'll shoot him a PM

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post #63 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 07:35 PM
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Hey Dave these are the B&C 21DS115-4 21'' subs not the Ipals. You can buy 4 of these for 2080$ shipped to your door. Here's some graphs of these in 4 11 cubic ft slot ported boxes. I did this just for fun so you can see what they look like.
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post #64 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Hey Dave these are the B&C 21DS115-4 21'' subs not the Ipals. You can buy 4 of these for 2080$ shipped to your door. Here's some graphs of these in 4 11 cubic ft slot ported boxes. I did this just for fun so you can see what they look like.
Wow they look pretty good. I still think I would only do two of those then build two sealed hst-18's. And then assess what I wanted more of low end or midbass. I picture my end goal being 4 sealed and 2 B&C21's. The ipals look nice but at $1400 a driver that is just a little too steep and limits use of possible amplifiers with the 1 ohm Re

I am kind of set on the othorns. Unless I can get some help somewhere with those I may have to toss the idea out. I could possibly build them from scratch but It would be a very slow long learning process. The only real wood working experience I have is gluing together some fusion 15's and using a chainsaw.

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post #65 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
Wow they look pretty good. I still think I would only do two of those then build two sealed hst-18's. And then assess what I wanted more of low end or midbass. I picture my end goal being 4 sealed and 2 B&C21's. The ipals look nice but at $1400 a driver that is just a little too steep and limits use of possible amplifiers with the 1 ohm Re

I am kind of set on the othorns. Unless I can get some help somewhere with those I may have to toss the idea out. I could possibly build them from scratch but It would be a very slow long learning process. The only real wood working experience I have is gluing together some fusion 15's and using a chainsaw.

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I think that's a great plan you would have the best of both. I'm doing something like you but will have 6-15's ported nearfield and the 4-21's behind the screen. Soon as the 21's are done the new nearfield box begins. If you lived closer I would help with the boxes... The only other option for building is having a lumber store cut the wood so it's spot on. Home Depot gets the cuts close but not spot on. What ever you decide will be nice in the end.
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post #66 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 07:57 PM
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You read my mind. Those B&C21's are some nice drivers They will give me that midbass I am looking for. I may go with the enclosures you suggested but I'm thinking I could really squeeze every bit out of those drivers by building some othorns.

Then I could do a couple long throw sealed subs.
These two things don't make much sense IMO. By the time you get enough sealed subs to give useful deep output, you'll have ton's of midbass from those drivers. You could get 8x UM18 and sealed flatpacks if you wanted. 4x sealed UM18 will meet or beat one OS LFU.

Or if you want to keep considering horns, you should be able to use the B&C 21SW152 in a GJALLARHORN or LOWARHORN and get output that's pretty impressive.
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post #67 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that's a great plan you would have the best of both. I'm doing something like you but will have 6-15's ported nearfield and the 4-21's behind the screen. Soon as the 21's are done the new nearfield box begins. If you lived closer I would help with the boxes... The only other option for building is having a lumber store cut the wood so it's spot on. Home Depot gets the cuts close but not spot on. What ever you decide will be nice in the end.
I'm sure with a good track saw I would have no problem building the ported boxes. I already have a circular saw just a track and I did be good to go.

Curious as to what driver you will be or are using for your 18" ported boxes. And how many cu ft are they going to be?

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post #68 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:04 PM
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or buy this or another CNC kit if he'd cut one https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...l#post50396073
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post #69 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
These two things don't make much sense IMO. By the time you get enough sealed subs to give useful deep output, you'll have ton's of midbass from those drivers. You could get 8x UM18 and sealed flatpacks if you wanted. 4x sealed UM18 will meet or beat one OS LFU.

Or if you want to keep considering horns, you should be able to use the B&C 21SW152 in a GJALLARHORN or LOWARHORN and get output that's pretty impressive.
I will have to check out the Ghorns. and the lowahorns. The thing that attracted me to the othorns are their size. I am pretty sure those have a larger footprint. I am planning on using the sealed 18's nearfield to give that low rumble so I don't think I will need 8. For that I might even be fine with um18's. I'm in a huge room on a concrete slab so I'm not going to be able to fill this room with sub 20hz no matter how hard I try.

I know what you are saying though that the sealed won't be able to keep up with the 21 horns. I may just go with cheaper sealed and just keep adding them until l' m tired of building them or run out of space who knows. I just know for sure I want those 21's

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post #70 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I'm sure with a good track saw I would have no problem building the ported boxes. I already have a circular saw just a track and I did be good to go.

Curious as to what driver you will be or are using for your 18" ported boxes. And how many cu ft are they going to be?

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I sold my 4-18's and now building 4-21's. As for the nearfield I'm using b stock legacy extreme xd drivers. They handle a lot of power Matt g sent me a pm about a group buy with him so once I seen what they do via winisd it was a no brainer not to buy them. The boxes are small 3 drivers per 10 cubic feet Times two boxes with a tune of 19hz. There very close to the B&C's for output with all 6 above 25-30hz.
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post #71 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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or buy this or another CNC kit if he'd cut one https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...l#post50396073
Seen it and he is the one I PMed. That thing is huge. I was thinking about it. Though I'd rather have the smaller othorns. Those take the $1400 ipals and it is still less output than two othorns.

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post #72 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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or buy this or another CNC kit if he'd cut one https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...l#post50396073
That who I PMed about building me a kit. I thought about buying that but it uses the more expensive ipals and it's too big.

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post #73 of 140 Old 04-11-2017, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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These two things don't make much sense IMO. By the time you get enough sealed subs to give useful deep output, you'll have ton's of midbass from those drivers. You could get 8x UM18 and sealed flatpacks if you wanted. 4x sealed UM18 will meet or beat one OS LFU.

Or if you want to keep considering horns, you should be able to use the B&C 21SW152 in a GJALLARHORN or LOWARHORN and get output that's pretty impressive.
Though the 8 um18's might not be bad idea I would have to crunch the numbers on that. I could just stack them 2 high in 4 corners. And still be able to integrate my orbit shifter

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post #74 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 06:14 AM
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This is the route I am looking to go maybe tuned a little lower to like 15hz. I can go as big a 11 cu ft. But my big question is will there be a different response in the midbass with the HST18 mkII compared to it being in sealed 4 cu ft enclosure or is there a better driver I could use in a ported box that could handle 4000w rms from a speaker power sp2-8000. If @LTD02 could give me some advice it would greatly appreciated.


what kind of content were you playing when you torched your orbit shifter? any idea what kind of spl and/or duration you are shooting for? that might help narrow the field a little.

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post #75 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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what kind of content were you playing when you torched your orbit shifter? any idea what kind of spl and/or duration you are shooting for? that might help narrow the field a little.
The issue is I am mostly movies but I do want club level music as well 70/30. My mains do that just fine F-15's. I not too interested in digging to single digits especially being on concrete slab but would like a system that can handle >20hz and nail it in the 40-50hz range or a very good compromise which I think the Orbit Shifter was but I am set on DIY. I think I can do something better with the price of two more of those. $6500.

Here is the track that killed it. I should also mention with one Orbit Shifter I had a bad null in my room at about 38hz which is why I think I was really pushing it. So multiples are needed 4 separate.

I am mostly into electronic music/dubstep.



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post #76 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 07:16 AM
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@David Varner

My very first DIY build was a THT. I built it with a cut table, a circular saw and a jig for straight and angled cuts.

It was a great experience. Took my time and learned so much. Yes, building a horn is harder than a ported or sealed sub. But, a horns output cannot be matched by a single ported or sealed sub. I've heard Luke's system......many times. And, the Othorns are unmatched in output. I know you've got a lot of options. But, I'd build 2 of those in a heartbeat. If you wanted some nearfield subs, I'd build ported. You'll get more tactile response from ported. Or, if you simply want that midbass slam, build a bunch of MBMs for nearfield.

My plan for my new theater will eventually be 2 or 4 more THTs and a bunch of MBMs. I love midbass; and since I'll also be on concrete, chasing ULF is kind of a waste (unless I build a ported riser).

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post #77 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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@David Varner

My very first DIY build was a THT. I built it with a cut table, a circular saw and a jig for straight and angled cuts.

It was a great experience. Took my time and learned so much. Yes, building a horn is harder than a ported or sealed sub. But, a horns output cannot be matched by a single ported or sealed sub. I've heard Luke's system......many times. And, the Othorns are unmatched in output. I know you've got a lot of options. But, I'd build 2 of those in a heartbeat. If you wanted some nearfield subs, I'd build ported. You'll get more tactile response from ported. Or, if you simply want that midbass slam, build a bunch of MBMs for nearfield.

My plan for my new theater will eventually be 2 or 4 more THTs and a bunch of MBMs. I love midbass; and since I'll also be on concrete, chasing ULF is kind of a waste (unless I build a ported riser).

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post #78 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 08:05 AM
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I will have to check out the Ghorns. and the lowahorns. The thing that attracted me to the othorns are their size. I am pretty sure those have a larger footprint. I am planning on using the sealed 18's nearfield to give that low rumble so I don't think I will need 8. For that I might even be fine with um18's. I'm in a huge room on a concrete slab so I'm not going to be able to fill this room with sub 20hz no matter how hard I try.

I know what you are saying though that the sealed won't be able to keep up with the 21 horns. I may just go with cheaper sealed and just keep adding them until l' m tired of building them or run out of space who knows. I just know for sure I want those 21's

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The GJALLARHORN isn't that much different in size than the OS LFU. GJ is 24x45x45 vs the OS at 36x22.5x50. LOWARHORN is 25.5x30x72; a smaller footprint than the OS LFU but taller.

Another thing to keep in mind is phase. Front loaded, tapped, sealed, and bass reflex all have different phase response, so if they're playing in overlapping bandwidth there could be cancelations at different frequencies. There are ways to work around that though, particularly by using FIR filters and an appropriate DSP.
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post #79 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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The GJALLARHORN isn't that much different in size than the OS LFU. GJ is 24x45x45 vs the OS at 36x22.5x50. LOWARHORN is 25.5x30x72; a smaller footprint than the OS LFU but taller.

Another thing to keep in mind is phase. Front loaded, tapped, sealed, and bass reflex all have different phase response, so if they're playing in overlapping bandwidth there could be cancelations at different frequencies. There are ways to work around that though, particularly by using FIR filters and an appropriate DSP.
I would be crossing the LFE signal around 30hz to some sealed. I would not want the headache of integrating different sub types playing the same frequencies.

I will take a look at the other horns but I have pretty much settled on the othorns. I am almost willing to give them a go building them myself.

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post #80 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 08:37 AM
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I would be crossing the LFE signal around 30hz to some sealed. I would not want the headache of integrating different sub types playing the same frequencies.

I will take a look at the other horns but I have pretty much settled on the othorns. I am almost willing to give them a go building them myself.

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@dsl1 has CNC'd Othorns in the past. Maybe he could send you a "flat pack"?
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post #81 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 08:40 AM
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@dsl1 has CNC'd Othorns in the past. Maybe he could send you a "flat pack"?
He messaged me already. I am just rude and have yet to respond because life

@David Varner I'll get back to you!
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He messaged me already. I am just rude and have yet to respond because life

@David Varner I'll get back to you!
Thanks really hoping we can work something out.

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Looking at DB the OSLF has 7 dB more at 80hz(crossover?) than the Cap4000ULF. A similar designed dual HST-18 would have 2-3 dB more at 80hz based on the Cap S2 and HST Sealed numbers. So a 10hz tuned dual HST-18 would be about 4 dB down from your current sub. Duals would have more. Add accordingly for more output and costs much less.
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post #84 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking at DB the OSLF has 7 dB more at 80hz(crossover?) than the Cap4000ULF. A similar designed dual HST-18 would have 2-3 dB more at 80hz based on the Cap S2 and HST Sealed numbers. So a 10hz tuned dual HST-18 would be about 4 dB down from your current sub. Duals would have more. Add accordingly for more output and costs much less.
By HST dual you mean dual coil not dual subs, correct?

I am not too far with a single orbit shifter to where I want to be. I am more interested in multiples. I made the newb mistake of buying one big subwoofer.

Doesn't cost that much less...haha look what I just dropped on amplifiers.


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post #85 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
By HST dual you mean dual coil not dual subs, correct?

I am not too far with a single orbit shifter to where I want to be. I am more interested in multiples. I made the newb mistake of buying one big subwoofer.

Doesn't cost that much less...haha look what I just dropped on amplifiers.


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What will the dual SP2-8K be powering?
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post #86 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
Though the 8 um18's might not be bad idea I would have to crunch the numbers on that. I could just stack them 2 high in 4 corners. And still be able to integrate my orbit shifter

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Wedge shaped ported boxes in all 4 corners, 4 inuke 6000 dsp`s and that leaves approx 4 grand out of 6500 to build boxes.......


I am in a 12x12 room, concrete floor and 4-12`s, one directly agaist the back of the seating and it feels like the floor is shaking. The seating certainly is, along with the walls and the flesh on my bones.

Plenty of chest slam, etc etc.

It is not soo much that they are super subs, it is the fact there is 4 of them in small semi sealed room.

I am no pro, you have some real pro`s here in this thread......giving you advice..., this is just my consumer, novice,end user take on things.

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #87 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
What will the dual SP2-8K be powering?
Still waiting to hear about getting the othorns CNC'd and I will most likely use one for those. The other for 4 sealed or ported 4 um 18,s with front pair and rear pair wired together to make a 2 ohm load or two HST's and buy a third sp8000 if I want to do another pair of HST's for a total of 4 HST's.

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Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #88 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
Still waiting to hear about getting the othorns CNC'd and I will most likely use one for those. The other for 4 sealed or ported 4 um 18,s with front pair and rear pair wired together to make a 2 ohm load or two HST's and buy a third sp8000 if I want to do another pair of HST's for a total of 4 HST's.

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Ok cool.

I will add though, unless you're going to be using the SP amps for 2ohms loads there are cheaper options out there. Using these in 4ohm is kind of a waste IMO.

If you go the Othorn route, I'd be thinking get 4 so you can parallel two to each channel of an SP2-8K.
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post #89 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:42 PM
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Help me choose 4 18 drivers and enclosure

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
By HST dual you mean dual coil not dual subs, correct?

I am not too far with a single orbit shifter to where I want to be. I am more interested in multiples. I made the newb mistake of buying one big subwoofer.

Doesn't cost that much less...haha look what I just dropped on amplifiers.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Your almost out of battery on your phone plug that thing in
Congrats on those amps!
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post #90 of 140 Old 04-12-2017, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
Wedge shaped ported boxes in all 4 corners, 4 inuke 6000 dsp`s and that leaves approx 4 grand out of 6500 to build boxes.......


I am in a 12x12 room, concrete floor and 4-12`s, one directly agaist the back of the seating and it feels like the floor is shaking. The seating certainly is, along with the walls and the flesh on my bones.

Plenty of chest slam, etc etc.

It is not soo much that they are super subs, it is the fact there is 4 of them in small semi sealed room.

I am no pro, you have some real pro`s here in this thread......giving you advice..., this is just my consumer, novice,end user take on things.
I'm in 30x30 room open to two sides. So I need some output. Got the amps. I really want to stay in the ball park of 4 mabey 6 subs including whatever two cabs I build with the B&C21's

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Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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