Help me choose 4 18 drivers and enclosure - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Help me choose 4 18" drivers and enclosure

I am looking to build 4 subs. I am not totally sure if I want to go ported or sealed but am leaning towards ported. Here are my constraints. Money is an object but I'm very flexible with what I can spend. have about $6,500 to spend if I can spend less great. I am trying to fill a large space roughly 10,000 cu ft. Not necessarily fill it but get good response with a decent SPL. I currently own a JTR Orbit Shifter LFU and I have blew it up twice at demo levels.( Getting fixed for the second time as we speak Jeff is awsome.) So obviously I need more output really need multiples to fix some nulls and and bad FR in a inherently horrible room that will need treatment. Worst of all I am in a concrete floor in a basement. I would like to keep the enclosures sizes to a minimum I could swing something of this size not too much bigger and 4 of these are one of my top choices.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-18-build.html

I really like the SI HST-18's but my only issue is that they are all about the low-end which is great but from the few threads that I have read and what I have learned that is long throw high excursion driver that is awesome but I have a feeling that the best qualities of that driver would be wasted on my concrete slab large room. Also they lack that mid-bass punch from 50hz and up which I am kind of looking for even though I have Fusion 15's that do that pretty well if they are crossed over to 80hz that is a moot point.

Then comes the kicker if I build sealed subs I can integrate them with my Orbit Shifter LF, ported I would not even attempt it. Building 4 sealed subs would give me that advantage of maybe letting them handle 10-40hz and using my Orbit Shifter LFU from 40-80hz. If I went ported I would most likely sell the Orbit Shifter LFU.

To sum it up is I want 4 subs that can handle all the juice two Speaker Power sp2-8000 can throw at them. I would be gettin two sp2-8000's. I am pretty set on these amps I have seen the numbers and they are impressive.

Any ideas would be great I'm just trying to zero in and get a game plan.

Edit: I should also add that I would like to use a driver that can be used sealed or ported should my HT even end up on a suspended floor and/or smaller room.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC

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post #2 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 01:18 PM
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How about four big horns? Do you have enough room for big enclosures?

HT setup: Vizio 50" 4K | Xbox & PS3 | Pioneer Elite VSX-94TX | Bose 701 towers (V1) | JBL S Center | Def Tech Reference SuperCube & DIY Nearfield cabinet ported UM18 dual ported PA380 ULF+MBM
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post #3 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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How about four big horns? Do you have enough room for big enclosures?
My building skills are not that great. I would have to have someone build them for me. I could manage some ported boxes like I linked above but that is a little above my carpentry skill level which is close to zero.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #4 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 01:40 PM
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Since you mentioned the HST18's here is my take I have 2 they are in a dual opposed 8cuft. box I have it standing in the corner of my living room. My woodworking skills are fair at best ( that is stretching it a lot ) but I can assure you the HST's can take a beating. Mine are D1's and I have them hooked up to a Bossobass A14K each sub is getting about 5kw peak. As of right now they play to 10hz no problems and start rolling off around 80 but as you wrote you have the fusion 15's. What can I say really like the HST's

Marantz SR-6013, Klipsch F-300 w/Samson SX-2400's Rear Surrounds: Klipsch F-300 w/Behringer EPX-2800, Atmos: 2 pairs DIYSG Volt 6's w/Behringer Nuke 3000 and EP-2000
SUBS:SI HST-18's 8cuft Dual Opposed cabinet w/ Bossobass A14K, 2 SI DS4's each in 7cuft Sealed cabinet w/ Bossobass IT-8000, 4 Infinity 1262's BOSS mini riser w/ nu6000
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post #5 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 01:49 PM
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I'd stray away from Stereo Integrity, integrity might be the name but their customer service does not demonstrate it. I'll never buy their product again based on principle.

He's on here as electrodynamic. Look him up and see for yourself.


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post #6 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cichlid109 View Post
Since you mentioned the HST18's here is my take I have 2 they are in a dual opposed 8cuft. box I have it standing in the corner of my living room. My woodworking skills are fair at best ( that is stretching it a lot ) but I can assure you the HST's can take a beating. Mine are D1's and I have them hooked up to a Bossobass A14K each sub is getting about 5kw peak. As of right now they play to 10hz no problems and start rolling off around 80 but as you wrote you have the fusion 15's. What can I say really like the HST's
I want to love them I know they are an awesome driver my only concern is that they may not be the right driver for my situation. If I was on a suspended floor I would purchase them in heartbeat. @lukeamdman has 8 21 incriminator sealed and he got hardly any tactile sensation on a riser. I am not even on a riser. I might think about them ported and would like to know if they have good mid bass in that config. Mostly everything I read is that with them sealed they lack the midbass slam.

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Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #7 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by The Hotness View Post
I'd stray away from Stereo Integrity, integrity might be the name but their customer service does not demonstrate it. I'll never buy their product again based on principle.

He's on here as electrodynamic. Look him up and see for yourself.


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That maybe your opinion but I think very highly of Nick. Never had any issues with anything that I have bought from him and would highly suggest him to anyone.
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Marantz SR-6013, Klipsch F-300 w/Samson SX-2400's Rear Surrounds: Klipsch F-300 w/Behringer EPX-2800, Atmos: 2 pairs DIYSG Volt 6's w/Behringer Nuke 3000 and EP-2000
SUBS:SI HST-18's 8cuft Dual Opposed cabinet w/ Bossobass A14K, 2 SI DS4's each in 7cuft Sealed cabinet w/ Bossobass IT-8000, 4 Infinity 1262's BOSS mini riser w/ nu6000
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post #8 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I want to love them I know they are an awesome driver my only concern is that they may not be the right driver for my situation. If I was on a suspended floor I would purchase them in heartbeat. @lukeamdman has 8 21 incriminator sealed and he got hardly any tactile sensation on a riser. I am not even on a riser. I might think about them ported and would like to know if they have good mid bass in that config. Mostly everything I read is that with them sealed they lack the midbass slam.

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Why don't you send him an e-mail?? He may not get back with you right away but he does respond. Just a thought?

Marantz SR-6013, Klipsch F-300 w/Samson SX-2400's Rear Surrounds: Klipsch F-300 w/Behringer EPX-2800, Atmos: 2 pairs DIYSG Volt 6's w/Behringer Nuke 3000 and EP-2000
SUBS:SI HST-18's 8cuft Dual Opposed cabinet w/ Bossobass A14K, 2 SI DS4's each in 7cuft Sealed cabinet w/ Bossobass IT-8000, 4 Infinity 1262's BOSS mini riser w/ nu6000
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post #9 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The Hotness View Post
I'd stray away from Stereo Integrity, integrity might be the name but their customer service does not demonstrate it. I'll never buy their product again based on principle.

He's on here as electrodynamic. Look him up and see for yourself.


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I've seen his posts I'm well aware of his name on here haven't seen anything that alarmed me. Curious as to what you experience was with them.

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Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #10 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:21 PM
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I had absolutely no issues with Nick. He was actually very prefessional and helpful. He answered all of my phone calls and the subs were received in great shape.
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post #11 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:22 PM
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I have a single HST-18 mkii in a small-ish 5.6 cu ft ported enclosure tuned to ~17 Hz, sitting in an open-style floorplan with ~6300 cu ft of total volume on a concrete slab. Even with just one HST-18, I am thrilled with how it sounds. I am definitely looking to build a 2nd in the future, but for now the single is more than sufficient for me, being driven off one channel of a FP14k clone. And ignoring any forum drama, I found Nick responsive and easy to work with, and I'll happily buy a 2nd HST from him in the future.
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post #12 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cichlid109 View Post
Since you mentioned the HST18's here is my take I have 2 they are in a dual opposed 8cuft. box I have it standing in the corner of my living room. My woodworking skills are fair at best ( that is stretching it a lot ) but I can assure you the HST's can take a beating. Mine are D1's and I have them hooked up to a Bossobass A14K each sub is getting about 5kw peak. As of right now they play to 10hz no problems and start rolling off around 80 but as you wrote you have the fusion 15's. What can I say really like the HST's
Also seen one of those bossobass 14k's for sale on here and I am tempted to pick it up but bossobass isn't offering them for sale by themselves without a purchase of their subs and I would need a second one. Curious as what you paid for your because price is not listed on the bossobass website anymore.

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Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #13 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a single HST-18 mkii in a small-ish 5.6 cu ft ported enclosure tuned to ~17 Hz, sitting in an open-style floorplan with ~6300 cu ft of total volume on a concrete slab. Even with just one HST-18, I am thrilled with how it sounds. I am definitely looking to build a 2nd in the future, but for now the single is more than sufficient for me, being driven off one channel of a FP14k clone. And ignoring any forum drama, I found Nick responsive and easy to work with, and I'll happily buy a 2nd HST from him in the future.
This is the route I am looking to go maybe tuned a little lower to like 15hz. I can go as big a 11 cu ft. But my big question is will there be a different response in the midbass with the HST18 mkII compared to it being in sealed 4 cu ft enclosure or is there a better driver I could use in a ported box that could handle 4000w rms from a speaker power sp2-8000. If @LTD02 could give me some advice it would greatly appreciated.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #14 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 02:58 PM
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If your looking for midbass, ask Jeff about getting 4 Growlers. They are cheap at $999 minus the amp, and a small footprint
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post #15 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
Also seen one of those bossobass 14k's for sale on here and I am tempted to pick it up but bossobass isn't offering them for sale by themselves without a purchase of their subs and I would need a second one. Curious as what you paid for your because price is not listed on the bossobass website anymore.

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You must not be looking in the right spot:
https://secure.bossobass.com/index.p...&product_id=50

Mine was 1330 including shipping. I am well aware there are other clones hybrids etc. out there this amp has been totally problem free. If there is a problem I can send it back to him and get it fixed. The idea of buying from China does not appeal to me.
Really as far as Nick I have talked to him several times e-mailed him with questions not once have I had any problems with him.

Marantz SR-6013, Klipsch F-300 w/Samson SX-2400's Rear Surrounds: Klipsch F-300 w/Behringer EPX-2800, Atmos: 2 pairs DIYSG Volt 6's w/Behringer Nuke 3000 and EP-2000
SUBS:SI HST-18's 8cuft Dual Opposed cabinet w/ Bossobass A14K, 2 SI DS4's each in 7cuft Sealed cabinet w/ Bossobass IT-8000, 4 Infinity 1262's BOSS mini riser w/ nu6000
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post #16 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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If your looking for midbass, ask Jeff about getting 4 Growlers. They are cheap at $999 minus the amp, and a small footprint
Not looking for midbass per se just a subwoofer that can handle the 50-80hz area well and also the low end atleast down to 15hz. I still want low bass for movies and that growler is not the ticket.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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You must not be looking in the right spot:
https://secure.bossobass.com/index.p...&product_id=50

Mine was 1330 including shipping. I am well aware there are other clones hybrids etc. out there this amp has been totally problem free. If there is a problem I can send it back to him and get it fixed. The idea of buying from China does not appeal to me.
Really as far as Nick I have talked to him several times e-mailed him with questions not once have I had any problems with him.
That bossobass amp would be perfect and save me some cash over the sp2-8000. I guess alot of people had the same idea and bossobass was selling more amps than subwoofers and put an end to it. The one on here is for sale for $1300. If I could get a second one I would buy the one here. I though hard about the LG clones I don't want to risk it.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #18 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
Also seen one of those bossobass 14k's for sale on here and I am tempted to pick it up but bossobass isn't offering them for sale by themselves without a purchase of their subs and I would need a second one. Curious as what you paid for your because price is not listed on the bossobass website anymore.

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https://secure.bossobass.com/index.p...&product_id=50 looks to be $1300 for the A14K-R


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This is the route I am looking to go maybe tuned a little lower to like 15hz. I can go as big a 11 cu ft. But my big question is will there be a different response in the midbass with the HST18 mkII compared to it being in sealed 4 cu ft enclosure or is there a better driver I could use in a ported box that could handle 4000w rms from a speaker power sp2-8000. If @LTD02 could give me some advice it would greatly appreciated.
The mid-bass is more going to be affected by efficiency. If midbass is what you really want then build MBMs, or buy another OS LFU. The only thing capable of handling anywhere near 4000W RMS with high efficiency is going to be something from B&C which aren't meant for low-bass duty and run $1000. Even the HST-18 is only rated at 2000W RMS, and the comparable but higher efficiency UXL-18 is rated at 1200W. I would suggest evaluating your priorities - do you want low bass or is mid bass your primary concern? Then, choose a driver that is best suited towards that goal and fits within your enclosure space limitations. Then, finally, choose an amp that offers enough power for your driver with a good bit of extra power leftover, but not too much that it'll easily blow the driver. I would not pick a driver to fit an amp, that's asking for disappointment IMO. Also keep in mind that for a nominal 4-ohm driver, the SP2-8000 will only supply ~2600W, not 4000W which it will supply into a 2-ohm load.
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post #19 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 03:17 PM
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Given your needs/wants, your large open space, and the fact that the OS LFU wasn't nearly enough for you, I'd say you might have to step it up to more horns or multiple large, ported boxes. I don't think 4 of even the best 18's in sealed or small ported enclosures would be enough for you. So, I'd either look at picking up some used horns, or buy/build some LLT's with some 21's. If DIY doesn't work for you and you don't want massive boxes, maybe you could check out the WW Speaker Cabinet/Seaton collaboration. Search for X21.

If you go with the HST's, you might be limited in the higher frequencies. You could always supplement with some PA460's for midbass for cheap, but then you're talking more boxes. You could also spend more on 18's that would have more consistent output through all frequencies, but at that point I'd rather go with larger drivers. Tough call!


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post #20 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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https://secure.bossobass.com/index.p...&product_id=50 looks to be $1300 for the A14K-R




The mid-bass is more going to be affected by efficiency. If midbass is what you really want then build MBMs, or buy another OS LFU. The only thing capable of handling anywhere near 4000W RMS with high efficiency is going to be something from B&C which aren't meant for low-bass duty and run $1000. Even the HST-18 is only rated at 2000W RMS, and the comparable but higher efficiency UXL-18 is rated at 1200W. I would suggest evaluating your priorities - do you want low bass or is mid bass your primary concern? Then, choose a driver that is best suited towards that goal and fits within your enclosure space limitations. Then, finally, choose an amp that offers enough power for your driver with a good bit of extra power leftover, but not too much that it'll easily blow the driver. I would not pick a driver to fit an amp, that's asking for disappointment IMO. Also keep in mind that for a nominal 4-ohm driver, the SP2-8000 will only supply ~2600W, not 4000W which it will supply into a 2-ohm load.
Thanks that puts things into perspective and it is what has been rolling around in my head just not put into words. It's really makes me think about just purchasing two more Orbit Shifter LFU's with my budget it would fit right in. My whole reason for DIY is i'm not exactly sure what I want and want the flexibility of having the amplifier separate and building what I see fit as my needs or wants change without having to take hit selling an entire subwoofer system. Also I like building stuff.

I guess the truth is I don't really need mid bass I'm just concerned that the HST-18 mkII's will leave something to be desired up top from what I have read but that is in sealed enclosures. I'm pretty sure that is the driver I want to use.

I see I am kind of working backwards with the cart before horse so to speak but if I'm going to buy an amp I only want to buy once that can handle anything I build now or down the road.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC

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post #21 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Given your needs/wants, your large open space, and the fact that the OS LFU wasn't nearly enough for you, I'd say you might have to step it up to more horns or multiple large, ported boxes. I don't think 4 of even the best 18's in sealed or small ported enclosures would be enough for you. So, I'd either look at picking up some used horns, or buy/build some LLT's with some 21's. If DIY doesn't work for you and you don't want massive boxes, maybe you could check out the WW Speaker Cabinet/Seaton collaboration. Search for X21.

If you go with the HST's, you might be limited in the higher frequencies. You could always supplement with some PA460's for midbass for cheap, but then you're talking more boxes. You could also spend more on 18's that would have more consistent output through all frequencies, but at that point I'd rather go with larger drivers. Tough call!


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I'm not againt building some MBM's that was why I went with F-15's so the could keep up the woofage have gobs of midbass. I could just cross them over a little lower. I keep thinking horns as well but I just don't have the skills to build them.

The really large enclosures are what I'm trying to stay away from I can go up to 11 cu ft which is not small. I am looking to build 4 so whatever I decide add +12db from what one would be. The thing that swayed me to the HST18 mkII is that they can be put in a smaller enclosure and take a boat load of power. Truthfully I think one more OS would get me to the amount of output I want. It is FR and smoothing that I'm trying to achieve more than anything. If i went with 21's I don't think I would be able to give them the enclosures they need to breathe.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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Why not grab 2 stereo integrity HS-24 MKII 24's with dual 1ohm coils. There $1275 each. Throw them in 11cf sealed boxes "of larger" and run them off the $1300 amp at 2ohm load per channel. That should keep you well under your budget and you can easily run them with you current sub when it gets repaired.
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post #23 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 04:06 PM
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Four B&C 21s. Ported 11 cubic feet to 15hz. Low, loud, midbass and cool. They can handle whatever power you got.
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Just a idea, maybe instead of 4 high power super mega woofers.....attack the problem with force and quantity.


8 to 12, um-18`s.......

Corners tend to be wasted space..........double stack wedges in each corner gets you 8 in the room without taking up much space....then another 2 to 4 in 11 cubic foot boxes to disperse as needed.


While I am not nearly in the same league as you, I am glad I opted for 4, 12`s, instead of a single mega 18 for all the reasons you mention in your post.


If I could get the same identical output from 2 or 1, I would choose 2. For reasons you already know and are experiancing.

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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Originally Posted by Acrjoey View Post
Why not grab 2 stereo integrity HS-24 MKII 24's with dual 1ohm coils. There $1275 each. Throw them in 11cf sealed boxes "of larger" and run them off the $1300 amp at 2ohm load per channel. That should keep you well under your budget and you can easily run them with you current sub when it gets repaired.
I did not see the HS 24's before on the website only the BHS 24's. That might not be a bad idea. I would be building 4 though and that does put me over budget. One or two huge subs are what I'm trying to get away from 4 manageable subs are what I'm trying to do. I could order the 4 drivers and one amp and a couple months later buy the second amp and build the other two boxes. My only issue is that I kind of want a driver that I could change to ported or sealed cause my living arrangements could change within the next few years and those 24's would not be living room material if I did not end up with a decent size room I could dedicate to a HT.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #26 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Four B&C 21s. Ported 11 cubic feet to 15hz. Low, loud, midbass and cool. They can handle whatever power you got.
That sounds like a winner I was just scoping those drivers out. I really don't want to be throwing tons of cash toward the low end if I can't much of use out of it.

http://www.parts-express.com/bc-21sw...4-ohm--294-689

These right? My only issue is they are 4 ohm and I really am looking for 2 ohm subs that I can use 2ohm stable amplifier. Unless you know of another amp that can run off 110v and deliver everything those guys can handle at 4 ohm.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #27 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 04:23 PM
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I'm not againt building some MBM's that was why I went with F-15's so the could keep up the woofage have gobs of midbass. I could just cross them over a little lower. I keep thinking horns as well but I just don't have the skills to build them.



The really large enclosures are what I'm trying to stay away from I can go up to 11 cu ft which is not small. I am looking to build 4 so whatever I decide add +12db from what one would be. The thing that swayed me to the HST18 mkII is that they can be put in a smaller enclosure and take a boat load of power. Truthfully I think one more OS would get me to the amount of output I want. It is FR and smoothing that I'm trying to achieve more than anything. If i went with 21's I don't think I would be able to give them the enclosures they need to breathe.

Understandable. As mentioned before, I think we have similar bass needs. Another OS would probably help with the response and output, though it sounds like you're looking for a change. While the HST drivers are excursion monsters that can take a lot of power, I would worry about the midbass when compared to the OS--unless you use enough of them to allow some EQ magic. I had one HST18 in a 4' flat pack that didn't cut it for me, but it was sealed and underpowered (one channel of an iNuke 6000DSP), though in a small room. I have read a few accounts of people being unsatisfied with different traditional HT subwoofers until adding something for the higher frequencies. Do you have any idea of the frequency range you like to crank that blew the OS's? I think you mentioned dubstep, and to pull that off well at the volume you listen, you would probably need dedicated MBM's in addition to the HST's.

Those X21's that I referred to are 11 cubic feet and might have the output you need through the entire range. I think Mark Seaton modeled different 21" drivers in the box, and they look pretty good. I'm looking at the B&C 21DS115-4 in larger DIY boxes myself. I haven't compared those to the HST's but 4 in larger boxes are modeling very close to 2 4000ULF's.



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post #28 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveyK View Post
Understandable. As mentioned before, I think we have similar bass needs. Another OS would probably help with the response and output, though it sounds like you're looking for a change. While the HST drivers are excursion monsters that can take a lot of power, I would worry about the midbass when compared to the OS--unless you use enough of them to allow some EQ magic. I had one HST18 in a 4' flat pack that didn't cut it for me, but it was sealed and underpowered (one channel of an iNuke 6000DSP), though in a small room. I have read a few accounts of people being unsatisfied with different traditional HT subwoofers until adding something for the higher frequencies. Do you have any idea of the frequency range you like to crank that blew the OS's? I think you mentioned dubstep, and to pull that off well at the volume you listen, you would probably need dedicated MBM's in addition to the HST's.

Those X21's that I referred to are 11 cubic feet and might have the output you need through the entire range. I think Mark Seaton modeled different 21" drivers in the box, and they look pretty good. looking at the B&C 21DS115-4 in larger DIY boxes myself. I haven't compared those to the HST's but 4 in larger boxes are modeling very close to 2 4000ULF's.
Yes I do think we are on the same page as far as our requirements. This is the thread I keep referring to is this that scares me away from the HST-18's. Guy had a ruler flat response in his room with the 4 HST-18 sealed and after selling his 4 subversives for those he complained that he had no mid bass like he did with the subversives and went back to them.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...s-build-8.html

I get it if you want mid bass it's a high sensitivity driver lower excursion if you want low end it's a high excursion low sensitivity driver isn't there a happy medium though. It seems like JTR found it with their drivers.

I had a bad null in my room around 48hz and I think I'm a big fan of the 40-50hz range for music so I have a felling that's what I was compensating for when I kept cranking my OS untill death. Also I still would like to dig a bit for HT.

Now we are talking I'm really looking for a 4000ULF but in 4 seperate single boxes not two speakers stacked on top of each other so I can spread them around for FR and smoothing. I could buy 2 4000ULF's but that would leave me with subs in only two positions. I sure can't spend $13,000 on four of them. Unless Jeff start's a financing option. God please nooooo Jeff would own me.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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post #29 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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holy smokes those X21 cabinets are outrageous.

https://www.ww-speakercabinets.com/x...er/t87c13.aspx
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post #30 of 140 Old 04-10-2017, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
Just a idea, maybe instead of 4 high power super mega woofers.....attack the problem with force and quantity.


8 to 12, um-18`s.......

Corners tend to be wasted space..........double stack wedges in each corner gets you 8 in the room without taking up much space....then another 2 to 4 in 11 cubic foot boxes to disperse as needed.


While I am not nearly in the same league as you, I am glad I opted for 4, 12`s, instead of a single mega 18 for all the reasons you mention in your post.


If I could get the same identical output from 2 or 1, I would choose 2. For reasons you already know and are experiancing.
I already made the mistake of one large expensive sub woofer instead of multiples and being a HT newb didn't really know how important it was having multiples. I keep eyeing up the um18's. I would probally have to build 8 of them and need a lot of channels of amplification if they were 4ohm I could just stack them and wire them in parallel and only need 4 channels of amplification.

Pre-Pro: Yamaha CX-A5100, Amp: D-Sonic M3-5400-7, Subs: 3 JTR Orbit Shifter LFU's, LCR: DIYSG F-15 Sentinels, Surrounds: Tannoy 802's, 4k player: Panasonic UB-900, 4k Gaming PC
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