The 8 - 12 Overture - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10Likes
  • 2 Post By bimmaguy
  • 1 Post By bimmaguy
  • 1 Post By bimmaguy
  • 1 Post By 18Hurts
  • 1 Post By asarose247
  • 1 Post By asarose247
  • 1 Post By bimmaguy
  • 1 Post By uniquepattern
  • 1 Post By bimmaguy
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 05-21-2017, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
The 8 - 12 Overture

Special Thanks:

@MoreisBetter for the inspiration. Curiosity over his really cool build with 16 12s gave me added incentive to try this idea. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...b-cabinet.html

@Bill Fitzmaurice for the suggestion of PL Premium to fill cracks. The stuff expands and works just as promised, but wow, it's a nightmare to handle. Do yourself a favor and grab the tube for a caulking gun. It'll be better, cleaner, and you'll have less waste and less need to use your fingers.

Szynalski Online Tone Generator for giving people a quick, easy, free way for people to test their equipment. http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/


So I'm building a cluster of 8 4 Ohm 12" subs to surround my couch nearfield. I found the Ultimate Sounds T-121 subwoofer at Visions in Canada on sale. They were on sale for $28 CA, which at current exchange rate to US dollars is a cup of coffee. It seems to be a recurring sale, and I started a thread about them here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...bs-canada.html

My plan is 2 boxes @ 24" x 32" x 19" for 6.8 cu ft with 3 subs in each, and 2 boxes @ 20.25" x 24" x 9" for 2.0 cu ft. The big boxes will go behind the couch nearfield, and the two smaller boxes will just barely fit either side of the couch as armrests for my armrests.

Off to go make some dust!
eng-399 and OJ Bartley like this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-24-2017 at 12:30 AM.
bimmaguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 05-21-2017, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Progress 1 -

Here are some bracing pics to get us started.

I just used boring old stick bracing for the small box. I figured being so small in depth, I just needed to reinforce the large panels front and back. The drivers will screw into these braces for added strength.

Click image for larger version

Name:	a.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	163.6 KB
ID:	2149474

The big box was going to get stick bracing too, since this is really a quick n' dirty build. But I couldn't resist the allure of designing assymetrical bracing. No fancy angles or anything, I just wanted to get her slapped together. I used wood glue, PL Premium to fix gaps, and 35- year caulking to seal them up.

Click image for larger version

Name:	b.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	161.5 KB
ID:	2149482

Click image for larger version

Name:	c.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	137.5 KB
ID:	2149490

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-21-2017 at 06:56 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 05-21-2017, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Oof that's an irritating ad at the top of the screen making noise. Show me your stuff but don't blow out my eardrums! Off to go install an ad blocker, I guess.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 28 Old 05-21-2017, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Progress 2-

So this is the end of day 2 now. First day was purchase of the materials, measuring, rough cuts, and back and sides glued. Day 2 was cutting and installing the bracing, and cutting and installing the baffles.

Here are my pics for today:

Hopefully this will be my face when I get them all dialed in:

Click image for larger version

Name:	a.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	179.5 KB
ID:	2149498

Here is my array, with a beer can and cat for scale. That is a fridge to the left (a mini fridge)

Click image for larger version

Name:	b.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	2149506

This is probably how the big subs will be sitting at the back, with the main listening position at ground zero

Click image for larger version

Name:	c.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	92.7 KB
ID:	2149514

This is what the drivers look like on the baffle. It's a nice tight fit that was easy to mark because they give you a cardboard cutout to use as a marking template (inside and outside of mounting plate). Probably my favorite feature of the subs so far! I'm going to spray the 2 side subs with flat black primer/ paint. The surround hasn't dissolved from overspray yet, so that's good! The back subs are going to stay that gaudy blue and silver, because nobody will ever see them.

Click image for larger version

Name:	d.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	157.9 KB
ID:	2149522

Anyway, I'm done for the day. It's supposed to be a weekend, after all! I"m going to call it a night and see if I can't find some better beer than that.
Brazle likes this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-21-2017 at 07:22 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 05-21-2017, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Time for a cost breakdown, I guess.

8 drivers- $230 (with tax)

2x 4' x 8' 3/4" MDF,
3x 2' x 4' handy panels (be careful, these panels are 24" by 48", not 49")
1 box of screws
2 tubes caulking
1 squeeze tube of PL Premium
1x 535ml Pro carpenter's glue
5x pillow (polyfill Walmart specials)
1 pack of jigsaw blades
(also got some drill bits and chocolate)
~$200 (with tax)

Total cost: just under $430 with a bare finish. Amplification: free (already have it).

Edit: I didn't use any of the new jigsaw blades, so those can go back for $10. That brings it, appropriately enough, to $420.

I need some wire and staples (already have), and a little bit of hot glue. In the spirit of saving every dollar (and making life easier for me) I'm not using connection terminals, each speaker will have its own wire coming through the box with hot glue inside and out. I figure that will let me experiment with wiring, and it will be way easier to troubleshoot if anything goes wrong.

Anyway, a pretty cool build for ~$400 CA I think. You can almost hear it say: "When I grow up, I wanna be a Genelec!"
uniquepattern likes this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-21-2017 at 07:57 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 05-21-2017, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Happy weekend, everyone!

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170521_225535.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	93.3 KB
ID:	2149674

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 05-22-2017, 06:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1262 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Looking good!

I like the name, the 8 - 12 Overture. Granted, 18 of them would of given you the output for cannon shots from the 1812 Overture! Hmmm, that gives me an idea. Two boxes with nine 12's on each side wired 3 series/3 parallel and an iNuke3000DSP with boxes large enough to get them close to Xmax would be a cool build. My garage ceiling is 10 feet so it would fit.

Looking forward to your results, no replacement for displacement.
bimmaguy likes this.
18Hurts is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 05-22-2017, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Construction tip- Pl Premium comes off your hands quickly and easily using a sandblaster or belt sander!

No, seriously though, WD40 isn't touching the stuff, scrubbing doesn't work. Abrasion seems to be the only thing that even begins to remove it. Any tips out there? I heard gasoline might help.

Anybody using this stuff should wear gloves or "make" gloves using caulking or wood glue or something else easy to remove. Live and learn...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 05-22-2017, 11:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Raylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 782
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 583
Random orbital works well. Just gotta lay into it. The best tip is to not smear it at all when you assemble the boxes(which I know doesn't help you now). Let it bead up in a little line, then after about an hour you can come back with a scraper and it falls right off. Once it dries though in a layer on the box, orbital sander is the best way. I wouldn't be using any liquids on the box, MDF will soak that crap right up.
Raylon is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 05-22-2017, 10:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Painters gloves, each project I seem to go through a few hundred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trimlock is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 10:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,298
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 1056
disposable gloves

Go-Jo hand cleaner from HD

patience and a sharp chisel
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SQUEEZEDF0854.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	386.0 KB
ID:	2152058  
bimmaguy likes this.

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 02:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eng-399's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Plainfield IL.
Posts: 5,503
Mentioned: 533 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2419 Post(s)
Liked: 4966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
Painters gloves, each project I seem to go through a few hundred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right... as soon as the pl construction adhesive hits the gloves you have a few panels to get in Place then the gloves are done. Having the gloves on saves your hands from a lot of cleaning once your hands are full of it it takes a few days to get it off if you don't scrub with the right cleaner.
eng-399 is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 02:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eng-399's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Plainfield IL.
Posts: 5,503
Mentioned: 533 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2419 Post(s)
Liked: 4966
eng-399 is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Progress 3-

Well, I decided the best way to get that glue off my hands was amputation. It made my job a little slower (obviously), but I figured my hands had a good run. Good thing my name is Astar!

So day 3 now (yesterday was a family day), here's a pic of the boxes all stuffed and wired.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170523_195327.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	90.4 KB
ID:	2152546

Here they are with drivers.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170523_210605.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	98.8 KB
ID:	2152554

All set now, I just need to move a few hundred pounds of subs now, then I can listen to them and then measure in a few days. Got a Paradigm Servo 15 and a Rythmik F15 HP that need to move away, then I can move these ones in. My big subs here are lighter than either of those. I will post listening impressions when I recover from the hernia and back injuries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-24-2017 at 12:32 AM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 08:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 4,298
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 1056
many, but not all subs go onto HF furniture dollies,

sometime 2 that are co-joined . . for anything over 100#

makes your testing, moving, easier . . on the back

you'll need the energy for a few zillion REW sweeps . .
bimmaguy likes this.

DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
asarose247 is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
So I got the back ones hooked up. Now I need more wire to get the side subs going. In the mean time, 10 minutes ago I got 6 of them wired, series/ parallel to a ~6 ohm load.

There's a lot of bass. I now get audible recognizable tones down to 11 hz from 16 hz before and there's a lot of shaking going on. As I hoped, it's a lot like I imagine tactile transducers are like. There's a really powerful resonance in my couch I never noticed before from 13- 15 hz. It's a lot more cohesive now, and seems like headphone bass with a really uniform distribution of bass through the room. The subs really improved in boxes - go figure! I'm sure they'll blend well with the UXLs at the front.

For those of you questioning my sanity for wanting to exchange two ~$1000 subs for $200 worth of car audio subs... The Rythmik has a massive latency compared to the Paradigm. I'm trying to fix my impulse response and the Rythmik wants 33 ft delay while the Paradigm wants 5 ft. The phase controls only give about 4 ft adjustability. Also, I had a freak power issue with one of the amps and it fried my RCA. Off to the secondary system they are banished.

I'm going to spend a few hours when I can to get them all dialled in, but I won't bother taking any measurements until I get the side two going.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-23-2017 at 09:41 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Wiring question- Will it be possible to get these in 2x 4ohm clusters of 4 subs, then wire the 2 clusters together in series to give a total load of 8 ohms for all 8?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
post #18 of 28 Old 05-23-2017, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Initial listening observations- These seem to present a lot of information in the 25 hz and up band. The current configuration is giving me a lot more in the upper bass. These are like midbass modules that rattle you at 6 hz. The sound has changed significantly and it's tough to judge by ear, it's taking a little adjustment. Part of the fun for me is tinkering endlessly by ear with EQ and delay settings until I feel happy.

I figure a big part of the new experience is having subs within inches of my head. But I'm happy so far. They seem really flat in my 1 - 100 hz sweep combined with the UXLs. They come on when the UXLs are in a null, and the UXLs fill in the rest. For the moment, they ain't pretty, they just sound that way.


Is the reinforcement from the floor really necessary with a very nearfield subwoofer or is it best to get the subs as physically close to your ears? I'm considering putting these 80 lb buggers on stands on their sides to be able to have the subs spread across the three seats on their sides at ear level to spread the ultra nearfield love. Thoughts, anyone?
uniquepattern likes this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-23-2017 at 11:24 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 05-24-2017, 12:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
uniquepattern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 808 Post(s)
Liked: 857
I was waiting for this to come together - looks wicked and I bet it sounds/feels great!
bimmaguy likes this.
uniquepattern is offline  
post #20 of 28 Old 05-26-2017, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Initial Measurements- Measured with Umik-1 calibrated to 10 hz. Crossover from sub to mains @ 100 hz.

Blue: Measured 1" from center of cone, no EQ

Green: Measured 1" from cone, a little bit of EQ by ear

Pink: response at MLP, combined with UXLs, both EQ'd.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	all.png
Views:	342
Size:	172.0 KB
ID:	2156826  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 05-26-2017 at 12:46 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #21 of 28 Old 05-27-2017, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
All 8 subs are wired to a 3 ohm load using this wiring schematic: http://www.colomar.com/cgi-bin/h_imp....5ZxZxZxZxZxZx

This is a great tool that lets you instantly see the results of wiring different #s of drivers. http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/impedance_proc.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
post #22 of 28 Old 06-03-2017, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
So after a million sweeps, this is where I'm at. This is the flattest my bass has ever been and it sounds better than it ever has. Thanks to all the posters in the DSP and EQ threads for your explanations and advice.

Click image for larger version

Name:	RESP.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	47.7 KB
ID:	2169602

This is how much I have adjusted the EQ since the last measurement (bottom 2 lines, blue is the sweep posted above and green is the new profile):

Click image for larger version

Name:	COMPARO.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	74.9 KB
ID:	2169594

This is my distortion measurement for a ~105 db sweep, showing max. distortion at 20 hz, where almost all of my EQ boost is. At 20 hz @ 110 db @ listening position, distortion is (110 - 85 = 35 db down) 2% THD. Not too shabby. But I added 7.5 db of boost to kill a null, and added 10 db of distortion.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DIST.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	82.8 KB
ID:	2169610

Here is a waterfall graph showing something useful, apparently? to those in the know. Still confused on that one.

Click image for larger version

Name:	WATERFALL.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	134.6 KB
ID:	2169618


For the moment, my bass quest has been satisfied. The system sounds better than it ever has. If I find myself craving more and bigger, I've got enough space in my side boxes to mount 15s or maybe even really shallow 18s. Then I figure two more UXLs in the front corners in sonotube would be possible at some point. At the moment, though, the room complains long before the subs do. I should point out that the ~105 db sweep used ~100W peak on the UXLs, and -6.5 db, or ~20W for the rear cluster. Still got a way to go before any system danger... the beauty of a small room!

Next upgraditis will probably get some AMTs or ribbons for the front 3 speakers. The statements are looking pretty good, as is the modular tower project being worked on right now by @Javs . Another rabbit hole!!!

Moral of the story: You shouldn't let yourself get discouraged if, like me, you can't afford the latest, greatest drivers or equipment. With subwoofers, anyway, it IS possible to get pretty good results from some pretty sketchy equipment. It's not necessary to spend a whole lot of money or time to get results that stomp the majority of subwoofers on the consumer market. In general, don't worry too much and have fun!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 06-03-2017 at 10:34 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #23 of 28 Old 06-03-2017, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Doh! My bad, guys. 110 - 85 is very much 25, not 35. That means that I get a spike to 5% THD at 20 hz. I can't say I notice even that, but it's there. For the curious, there is a calculator for THD here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 07-12-2017, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Hey everyone! It's time for a one month update.

I've been messing around with the sound a lot over the last month. I did a lot of reading and it turns out the graphs are kinda useless if you don't know what you're looking at.

I learned a little bit more, tweaked and experimented a lot, and got to this:
Spoiler!


Here are some general observations:

- with the rising curve I'm able to achieve, most bass notes appear to me to be at the same SPL, and I can hear deeper notes, more clearly. Where was this when I was a bass player?!?

- The more subs I add, the less I bother other people in the house. I used to vibrate a mirror in a vanity ~ 20 ft (~7 m) away constantly. Now it doesn't rattle, it barely seems to move. The bass is WAY quieter in the rest of the house, and the same level in the listening room. It's a big win, but I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Maybe because each individual sub is barely doing anything? In fact now I find I hear much more midrange outside the room than I used to. Odd.

- The Ultimate Audio subs' suspension is now ridiculously soft. The surround on them feels reminiscent of an unrolled condom now. This might be a sign that they won't last too long. We'll see. Either way, I consider it a successful experiment.

- I'm still experimenting with the dynamic EQ. I notice the subs seem to need a bit more help in the low end to keep up with the speakers at very low volumes than they used to. It's a neat feature and fun to experiment with.

- I'm also experimenting with the levels of the rear cluster relative to the front. It's a little disconcerting when a kitten purrs on TV and it rattles you on the couch. I'm trying to find a reasonable balance of tactility.

Overall, I'm as happy as could be (still tweaking) and I've now moved on to improving my LCR.

... and they called him "El Ch(e)apo"...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	perfect.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	60.7 KB
ID:	2232705   Click image for larger version

Name:	DIST 2.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	292.0 KB
ID:	2232713   Click image for larger version

Name:	WATER.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	111.6 KB
ID:	2232721   Click image for larger version

Name:	spectro.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	265.0 KB
ID:	2232729   Click image for larger version

Name:	el chapo.jpg
Views:	159
Size:	8.4 KB
ID:	2232969  


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 07-12-2017 at 07:39 PM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 01-12-2019, 08:53 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Nice project! I'm considering doing the same, can you tell me how well these cheap drivers are holding up?
Jakub Hyzyk is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 01-12-2019, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub Hyzyk View Post
Nice project! I'm considering doing the same, can you tell me how well these cheap drivers are holding up?

Well, it's about 2 years in for me now...


The surrounds were a concern to me due to how much they softened over the first week or two. They seem to have settled in and there are no further visible or tactile changes to the material.


The surround is butyl and therefore soft and vulnerable to rips and tears, but there is a high lip of plastic around it for protection. My cats have not managed to damage them yet, even after climbing the plastic lip with their claws once or twice. The cone is easy to clean, and easy to paint after. I used a Krylon plastic paint and it sticks very well with no additional primer.


During the past 2 years they have been repeatedly beat on using subsonic frequencies. I use tone generators, bass boosted songs, the intro to EOT, WOW pod scene and, of course, the 2015 Bass Demo Disc etc. They just soak it up and giggle. I run a very heavy house curve, combined with a large negative high shelf... especially on those. I have never heard any distress noises even during testing at what I consider very high levels, and distortion seems to be low. I've tried the cluster wired to 4 ohms and 8 ohms. I prefer 8 ohms because it seems smoother somehow



Two caveats...


These have only ever accidentally seen a full-strength signal above about 30- 40 hz. They give (to me) an obscene amount of midbass, but I needed subs. I find the midbass coming from the front of the room to be much more natural, so the UXLs are doing the heavy lifting there. At the moment, the 12s focus is really 30hz and below. The array really grips the room at 13 hz, with rapidly diminishing returns under that. I have no impressions of the midbass other than "loud".



I don't tend to listen very loud, apparently. I have a conservative limiter set on these for 750W @ 8 ohm. I have only tickled that limiter once or twice during testing. When I did, there were no bad noises coming from the subs, but I don't know what kind of power they can really take. I've seen pretty impressive excursion out of them, but I don't know how to measure that, and I'm not willing to kill one "for science", especially when I'm not sure whether I would really learn anything.
Jakub Hyzyk likes this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 01-12-2019 at 10:45 AM.
bimmaguy is offline  
post #27 of 28 Old 01-15-2019, 11:01 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmaguy View Post
Well, it's about 2 years in for me now...


The surrounds were a concern to me due to how much they softened over the first week or two. They seem to have settled in and there are no further visible or tactile changes to the material.


The surround is butyl and therefore soft and vulnerable to rips and tears, but there is a high lip of plastic around it for protection. My cats have not managed to damage them yet, even after climbing the plastic lip with their claws once or twice. The cone is easy to clean, and easy to paint after. I used a Krylon plastic paint and it sticks very well with no additional primer.


During the past 2 years they have been repeatedly beat on using subsonic frequencies. I use tone generators, bass boosted songs, the intro to EOT, WOW pod scene and, of course, the 2015 Bass Demo Disc etc. They just soak it up and giggle. I run a very heavy house curve, combined with a large negative high shelf... especially on those. I have never heard any distress noises even during testing at what I consider very high levels, and distortion seems to be low. I've tried the cluster wired to 4 ohms and 8 ohms. I prefer 8 ohms because it seems smoother somehow



Two caveats...


These have only ever accidentally seen a full-strength signal above about 30- 40 hz. They give (to me) an obscene amount of midbass, but I needed subs. I find the midbass coming from the front of the room to be much more natural, so the UXLs are doing the heavy lifting there. At the moment, the 12s focus is really 30hz and below. The array really grips the room at 13 hz, with rapidly diminishing returns under that. I have no impressions of the midbass other than "loud".



I don't tend to listen very loud, apparently. I have a conservative limiter set on these for 750W @ 8 ohm. I have only tickled that limiter once or twice during testing. When I did, there were no bad noises coming from the subs, but I don't know what kind of power they can really take. I've seen pretty impressive excursion out of them, but I don't know how to measure that, and I'm not willing to kill one "for science", especially when I'm not sure whether I would really learn anything.
Thanks for the detailed update! This puts to rest my concerns about longevity, and your numbers look very impressive. I am considering buying a bunch of these to use with an Inuke 3000dsp.. I have dual rhythmik 12s in sealed boxes in the front room (DIY servo kit) that I'm quite happy with now, as my room is small. But more is better, right say, 4 or 8 of these in ported or sealed boxes at the back corners would even things out nicely I think.

I do have concerns about localization though, so am quite curious how you're managing crossover and blending... you say these are crossed at 40hz or so? how do you handle the routing/xover duties to make that work?
Jakub Hyzyk is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 01-16-2019, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bimmaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub Hyzyk View Post
I do have concerns about localization though, so am quite curious how you're managing crossover and blending... you say these are crossed at 40hz or so? how do you handle the routing/xover duties to make that work?

The DSP in the iNuke is all you need. I have set levels, delay, crossover, and EQ based on results from REW sweeps using a Umik-1.


Localization was indeed a problem though, so these are crossed pretty much below 40hz. Above that, they are just being used to fill in a few nulls to smooth things out.


Good luck with your project. It should really pound, but it might make you want bigger subs up at the front. In my case for example, the rear (NF) subs need about 6dB less gain to be the same volume as the front.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
bimmaguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off