Javs' Modular Tower WMTW - 15FH520 / Beyma 12P80ND-V2 / TPL-150H - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 179 Old 05-31-2017, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Javs' Modular Tower WMTW - 15FH520 / Beyma 12P80ND-V2 / TPL-150H

Time to build my new towers.

***EDIT - FINISHED***

FINALLY.

Got my MiniDSP, my 250ft Speaker Cable, 7 new interconnects, my Emotiva 5175 (For Atmos duties)...









































Today I set out to calibrate hopefully once and for all the towers in their current position.

REW 6 point averaging was used, it made the process very easy, and I am pretty happy with the results now. That middle seat (lets face it, the only one I care about in my small room) now has a smooth frequency response.

Here is the pre-calibration averaging for both speakers across 6 positions in the middle seat. Now that the imaging is fixed (roughly 20 degrees toe in) this is actually not a bad average considering the only EQ on these is based on outdoor driver measurements!



Here is the Calibrated Averages, measured in 6 positions again after Eq to the summed averages above. Really good!



The towers have a tweeter roll off at 18khz which I have done myself, I noticed they don't like to really play above there, they naturally want to roll off, so in the X-Over settings for the DSP I simply created a 48db/Octave filter to roll off at 18k. You will clearly see that on one of the tower measurements above, I did the other tower after the measurements. I also added a 25hz roll off also 48db to save the driver from any over excursions since I am going to run these full range in my AVR.


*** Original Post***

I have had the 15" drivers for these for over a year, and just occurred to me the other day that I should build it modular for easy, negates the need for large CNC cutting I was going to do, and I think actually will look pretty cool.

Its been done before, I have seen a sealed and ported version of this, none of them used the 12" mid I am going to use though. For obvious reasons I guess.

Check my sig for my past builds, the thing with this is I am going to be recycling my TPL and 12P80 from my existing towers, I really like the sound I have right now, just wish there was a little more output down low, and this time I would like to cross the mid closer to 1250hz or so to reduce beaming a little, will check out the best area around there with now polar graphs when I get one box built.

The last box had OK bracing, but this being modular, that aim this time was to do the bracing a little better, more LF output, give the mid a LOT more room in a sealed section to breathe, and likewise with the TPL-150. The towers I have although large, really don't leave enough room for all those drivers to do their thing.

SO.

Here is the front face design.



The other build I have seen, which is sealed.



I have already cut one side mostly, and have one mid chamber built and glued, I also had a tweeter chamber built but I am going to redo it shaving off 2cm in height so that will be coming together today.

I am going to have the crossover completely out of the box in its own nice wooden box, I havent decided yet if I will just have that sitting on top or where I will put it, my room is HT centric, so laying them off to the side of one of the boxes will not do. I also just want to keep it all out of the modular boxes, I want those to be as solid and as simple as can be, just some nice terminals on the back of each of them. I will probably make up a thin 100mm high box in the same dimensions as the rest of the modules and use that.

I will build two, though the plan is to build a third down the track when I finally get to use an AT Screen setup to have identical towers.

Here is the bassbox pro model of one of the bass modules:

With the two LF drivers in parallel wired for 8ohms the design should be good for 122db at the -3db point of 45hz.







My current towers in yellow, and new modular towers in red... Approximate.



First port resonance is at about 700hz. I hope to cross over the main woofers at about 200-250hz or so at 24db/Octave. Which brings me to one consideration for the overall design, I know I need to try to cross the main woofers as low as possible due to the CTC spacing rules. The way they are now spaced at 1050mm, exactly one wavelength is 323hz.

Unfortunately the design wont allow a 1/4 wavelength crossover in the mains of 80hz, that's just of no interest to me, I will experiment with this heavily when designing the crossover, I do want these 15's to cover the majority of the impact midbass range, at least up to 150hz if I can. The problem is, given the spacing, I guess I am going to have a cancellation at the 160hz half wavelength yes?

I have some nice jarrah paper backed here, I may use that for the modules in terms of finish, I will cross that bridge when I come to it!

I dont even know how these are going to fit in my room, but stuff it, im going to build them anyway because I am bored! I will make them fit!

Current Room.

Current main towers are 1360Hx360Wx380D









More to come as I go!
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post #2 of 179 Old 05-31-2017, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 179 Old 05-31-2017, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 04:25 AM
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And here I was thinking there wasnt much room for improvement on your original design - boy was I wrong....
This should be wicked!
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post #5 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 12:25 PM
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As Javs says to himself..."Self, I wonder what a detached retina feels like...let's find out!"

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I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
The Blank Slate Cinema/MacGillvray Pub Build Thread
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post #6 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 05:57 PM
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Those Beyma 12P80ND-V2 are awesome mids. Glad you kept them in the mix. I'm just going to build modules too. So much easier to build, move around and swap different drivers in and out as desired. I'm putting my TPL150Hs on top as just naked horns since I don't need a solid platform to stack another woofer like you do.
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post #7 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 08:11 PM
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What is your room size?

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post #8 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
What is your room size?
Well the total room size is 2300ft sq.

But I am not using all the room for my theatre,...

Room sim, you can see whats going on here... The whole room is open to the rest of the house too, stairways, 3 of them. So its not sealed at all.


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post #9 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 10:09 PM
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As long ad they are at ear level and the mid to tweeter centers are close.
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post #10 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
As long ad they are at ear level and the mid to tweeter centers are close.
Yeah, well overall the design is going to work better.

The centres will be 1cm further away than they are currently from each other due to these being modules and I have to deal with material widths etc, however with a lower crossover as planned it will be fine, the mid will now be under my TPL, and the base of the TPL throat is exactly going to be ear level, which is still fine for a perfectly on axis response out of that AMT taking into account my seating distance, this also makes the mid and AMT blending relationship end up more in line with ear level vs above my head where it essentially is right now on my towers. Especially on those days when I kind of slouch down into my sofa more...

The CTC mid to TPL will be 300mm, which makes for 1 wavelength at 1133hz.

I think with AMT's though you calculate it to the edge of the ribbon though, which would be 250mm or 1360hz.

All reasons actually why I decided to build new ones.

I am not even going to put a plynth base on these, I was going to, but decided the AMT would end up slightly higher than I would like and then thought I didnt really need it though it would have looked cool.

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post #11 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 11:00 PM
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would Dayton PA460-8 18" a good/better substitute for Faital 15" ?

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post #12 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 11:31 PM
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I'm going to put a thin base under my TPL and use blue tack to stick it to the mid cabinet. Otherwise my cats would surely knock it off lol. Gonna get or build some decent looking speaker grills to protect all the drivers from the same adversaries.
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post #13 of 179 Old 06-01-2017, 11:53 PM
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Which 18's did you use again for your subs?

I will have to look at the cost of these 15's again now.
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post #14 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
would Dayton PA460-8 18" a good/better substitute for Faital 15" ?
Possibly, not for me though, I want an 8ohm nom speaker. And I have limitations in the width, plus I already have four of the PA460's as subwoofers.

I like the build of the Faitals better than Dayton, the Faital's are rock solid drivers, I would just as soon get an Faital 18FH500 if I were to go 18" mids route. Bigger Xmax, Neo woofers, very rigid frame etc... When using things like the TPL-150 and the mid I am using, cheapest driver I can find is not really the aim here.

http://www.faitalpro.com/en/products...p?id=151070100

I almost bought four of those to use as my subs, but the PA460's ended up significantly cheaper at $75 each which for my bass duty, I was happy to take a punt and I have been pretty happy, although I wish they could take a little more power.

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post #15 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Which 18's did you use again for your subs?

I will have to look at the cost of these 15's again now.
Quad PA460's

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Very nice - looking forward for more posts!
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post #17 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Quad PA460's
Ah ok. I thought you were going to use a FP version of the PA460.
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@Javs

Why don't you use active crossover instead of passive crossover?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Well the total room size is 2300ft sq.

But I am not using all the room for my theatre,...
I think you mean 230 sq feet. Based on your drawing, it looks like your room is about 20 ft wide and 15 ft deep. Also, it looks like you are using about 15 feet of that width, as you mentioned the room opens up.

Your room looks like mine with the sliding door on one side and opened up on the other side. Roughly same dimensions as well.

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post #20 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
I think you mean 230 sq feet. Based on your drawing, it looks like your room is about 20 ft wide and 15 ft deep. Also, it looks like you are using about 15 feet of that width, as you mentioned the room opens up.

Your room looks like mine with the sliding door on one side and opened up on the other side. Roughly same dimensions as well.
I think he is including the total room size (including the area that his theater is open to), and not just the room that he uses for his theater. It doesn't make sense to simply calculate the room size if it's open to the whole house.
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post #21 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Javs' Modular Tower WMTW - 15FH520 / Beyma 12P80ND-V2 / TPL-150H

Its 2300 cubic ft sorry. 65cubic m

I wouldn't even know the total 'air' size opening to the rest of the house but it would be colossal!

Although the stairwell openings are each not too much bigger than a doorway so its possible the room would actually act smaller acoustically because there are still boundaries for waves to bounce.

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post #22 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
@Javs



Why don't you use active crossover instead of passive crossover?


Because I dont want to
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post #23 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the open area of the room I need to work with.. Standing in the theatre looking back.






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post #24 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 04:36 PM
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That's a huge bass trap if I ever saw one.
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post #25 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That's a huge bass trap if I ever saw one.
Indeed it does kinda have that effect yes.

Honestly, I can get down to about 13hz 'flat' with my subs, I do roll-off higher than that though to save them, but the ability is there. and I am not missing any frequencies... the only thing I feel like I would like more of, and I am convinced its due to lack of ability to fully pressurise the space, is that chest thumping slam in the mid-bass. My mid-bass measures OK with the subs too, and the couch, walls, floor even my screen vibrates, shakes and rattles, yet that chest area doesn't really resonate much in my space even at full reference levels.

This is the subs in this room before after I first set them up and got the EQ dialled in...



I changed it around a bit though, that was when I was having to cross them at 150hz, after a lot more playing around with the set-up and getting the phase relationship right, crossing them at 80hz which was the best constructive combination, I roll off a little lower now, I can get more SPL out of them before clipping, a good trade off. I found the house curve above to be a little too much for my tastes, I prefer what I have now in terms of how it actually sounds, the above response looks excellent, but the subs are crossing too high.



Then there is my leather sofa messing with everything, I hope to get a Dirac enabled receiver soon, I want to be able to calibrate up to about 500hz. I switched off Audyssey recently and did my own simple 9 step graphic EQ in the amp, the sound is significantly better than with Audyssey trying to do its thing.
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post #26 of 179 Old 06-02-2017, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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OK a few wood pics... I been constructing one of the towers over the past few days at a pretty relaxed pace.

I am going to get one tower fully built first I think, before doing the next one, that way if I decide a module needs to be modified or built differently it wont be a big deal to make up two new ones the right way... Already ran into a stupid hiccup on the first tweeter module I started to build, stupid me completely forgot to insert the bracing once I got the sides on, meaning I would need to wedge the bracing in there, anyway not good.







I then though oh maybe I can just add some 45degree bits in there and it would be fine, probably would have been, but I decided to re-do it and add a two larger circle cutout braces.

Much better and more rigid.



The mid section done the same way sitting under the tweeter module. Both backs glued on.









Here we have the two 15" enclosures slowly coming together... pretty exciting stuff.




Brad Nailer, one of the single most amazing human inventions.




Faital 15FH520 16ohm.













Really phenomenal build quality on these drivers.

The 15" enclosures are going to have three large window braces also, they will be horizontal though rather than vertical, so they can span the height of the box. I will need to trim one of them to make way for the driver to sit inside, a bit of thinking to do there to make sure it works well. Will get pics of that as it happens.

Beyma 12p80nD V1.

This driver is a set of spares I have, back when I ordered the V2 drivers, Beyma sent me these, and I was not happy since I wanted the V2's, then told me to hold on to these and sent me replacement V2's at no cost!







The idea is, I will steal the V2's out of my tower speakers, and put these V1's in my existing towers, the should fix exactly, the impedance sweep etc is very very close, and the response is mostly the same, I am thinking I wont have to do anything on the old towers to put these in place, and not have to fully retire the old towers, put them downstairs or something... I will just need to buy a couple new TPL-150's though eventually for those, which I think will be worth doing.

Unfortunately though, I had three of these, and one was completely damaged in a house move by the removal company's lack of care, the voice coil now sounds like gravel, so that driver is toast.

You should see what they did to the base of my center speaker... To say I wanted to knock some dudes out is an understatement. These were flawless merely hours earlier. Lucky it was on the bottom though, they look cosmetically fine when on the floor in their place, so that's lucky I guess. They thought it would be a good idea despite all the blankets used to transport them safely, in the final couple of ft in the back of the truck to place the speaker on the metal gravel and dirt ridden truck bed and DRAG the speaker to the edge of the truck, I was literally walking towards the truck ironically with the intention of commending them on the work done to this point and say 'Lets be really careful now guys this is the end, lets get these upstairs safely...' You should have heard the noise these made while being dragged along the dirt ridden truck bed, it sends shivers up my spine knowing how many hours I put in...

The guy suggested I could 'sand them back and repaint them'.






And finally the mighty 12p80Nd-V2 which will end up in this project.


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post #27 of 179 Old 06-03-2017, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Slight update to the ports on the baffle,

We will be using 55mm high by 368mm wide now.

This will aesthetically look a little nicer and more rigid, this will leave exactly 2 wood thickness's around the edge and bottom for the port, so I will create a small box inside the cabinet for the port to lead in to...

Small change, but I realised that the port only being visually one wood thickness wide (18mm) was going to perhaps seem slightly odd looking. My previous towers and actually my rears are using 25mm MDF so those look right.

It models identical to the old port, I had to change the height to 55mm for this to do so.

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JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
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Last edited by Javs; 06-03-2017 at 12:17 AM.
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post #28 of 179 Old 06-05-2017, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a small update to how the bracing in the LF boxes will look.

I had window bracing, and had to find a way to make the large woofer fit, leave room and still do the job of bracing, I think I have done well here, a couple minor tweaks I want to make such as just adding some small bits on top of that horizontal bracing leading up about 2/3rds of the way to the woofer opening but stopping short to make sure I dont run into any fitment issues, but also just adding that little bit of extra panel division.

As for the lower part of the box, the port for this will have an internal frame so to speak since the port is now exactly two material widths inset into the box, so I will place a 124mm piece on the bottom, sides and top, and that will serve as the interior port walls. I did this on my last tower and it worked well, that should also add some rigidity to the lower portion of the box, though I am thinking of adding a couple of bits of wood connecting the vertical window brace to the bottom of the box, I will show another image of this when I get one all glued up.

Some pics.. The box is on its back, the 'top' is on the right hand side. So the woofer will sit in that section.



Then











Top down:









Lots of pics, anyhoo! I will cut a new set of all of this so I have the matching pair for the other towers LF boxes done, and so I dont stand there scratching my head when it comes time to do the bracing for those two boxes...

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
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Last edited by Javs; 06-05-2017 at 12:53 AM.
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post #29 of 179 Old 06-05-2017, 03:35 AM
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Javs do you know which 15's work in small enclosures for a 40hz tune? Or 30hz tune?

Didnt know if you knew this off hand is all. Also always been curious about trying some FP drivers in a design. Didnt like how my last purchase went so I have stuck with BC/Beyma. BUT I am still very curious to compare.

PLUS I am hoping to see if I can make some large towers and somehow squeeze some 18's in the sides.
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post #30 of 179 Old 06-05-2017, 10:00 AM
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Looks great.
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