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post #1 of 176 Old 06-24-2017, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Ultimax 18 Back in Stock/Price Change

The UM-18 is pretty often recommended as the middle ground, go-to driver around here. With the discontinuation of the SI-DS4, nothing really competes with the UM-18 in a similar price range category.
There has also been the change in the UM-18s basket size. I just noticed the price has gone up on the driver, and is now listed at $299 (with a traditional buy 4-up discount). Does anyone else know any information about the driver other than the larger basket? Have they made other improvements to the driver that would require the price increase?
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-coil--295-518

Also, it seems that the 4 cu ft flat packs have also climbed to $188


Edit: Not sure if this has been mentioned before. But I was just looking at them because I might need to pick a couple more up in a few weeks.

12/12/17 EDIT: Back in Stock! (~500)
12/17/17 EDIT: Less than 125 left!

12/25/17 EDIT: Less than 50 left in stock
1/13/18: Out of Stock
1/14/18: Price increase to $325 ea. from $299 ea.

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post #2 of 176 Old 06-24-2017, 11:22 PM
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post #3 of 176 Old 06-24-2017, 11:47 PM
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Urghh.......I have a 2 UM18 I bought last year and 1 right out of the box made a little noise when pushed to high excursions. I didn't send it in right away thinking once in the sealed enclosure it might not be noticeable. But it is. Anyway, the box is a dual opposed DIYSound group enclosure.

You mentioned the size change and that reminded me of others saying the new UM18s do not fit the flush fit/counter sunk cut out since they are bigger. Crap! What should have been a simple remove and replace the driver could be a lot of work and mess making the old hole bigger.

Maybe that is my sign to try ported

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post #4 of 176 Old 06-25-2017, 04:39 AM
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I saw that price increase yesterday. I wonder what the reasoning is behind it. Maybe they made changes to it that fix QC issues? RSS460 price didn't change.

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post #5 of 176 Old 06-25-2017, 06:35 AM
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I'm not sure why the price on the new flat pack is higher compared to the other 4cuft box.

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post #6 of 176 Old 06-25-2017, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I'm not sure why the price on the new flat pack is higher compared to the other 4cuft box.
Supply and demand probably. There isn't any real competition and as long as its still seen as a good value they can just say "we needed to increase the price to stay profitable and continue to offer it."
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post #7 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Man now it's going to cost me 2,400$ to get 8 of these minus a little discount... why a price increase
guess its been 2 weeks since your last upgrade..getting that itch again?
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post #8 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chadsmith013 View Post
guess its been 2 weeks since your last upgrade..getting that itch again?


Lol yep, I have room for 8-13 cubic ft boxes. Gotta plan ahead.
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post #9 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
Supply and demand probably. There isn't any real competition and as long as its still seen as a good value they can just say "we needed to increase the price to stay profitable and continue to offer it."
That was my guess too since the site says out of stock until 9/3/17. Business must be good.

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post #10 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
Urghh.......I have a 2 UM18 I bought last year and 1 right out of the box made a little noise when pushed to high excursions. I didn't send it in right away thinking once in the sealed enclosure it might not be noticeable. But it is. Anyway, the box is a dual opposed DIYSound group enclosure.

You mentioned the size change and that reminded me of others saying the new UM18s do not fit the flush fit/counter sunk cut out since they are bigger. Crap! What should have been a simple remove and replace the driver could be a lot of work and mess making the old hole bigger.
The basket hasn't changed in 2 years. Early on in the product life there was a subtle change to the basket, but the mounting surface remained the same. The listed dimensions on the website have been wrong for a long time, including the bolt pattern. The spec sheet still shows the wrong dimensions. The numbers listed on the product page appear much closer to reality.

Some production tweaks to the latest build which arrived at PE in June and are now sold through mostly eliminated the high excursion noise issues and should continue for the woofers going forward. I was not aware they were putting in a price increase and had no input or part in that. Considering the sales PE often runs, I suspect most could wait for a sale and get nearly the same price as before.
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post #11 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Lol yep, I have room for 8-13 cubic ft boxes. Gotta plan ahead.
Your theater reminds me of this jar I saw on the internet...


The balls, rocks, and sand all represent speakers in your room.

Also, when are you having me and wifey over?
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post #12 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 11:22 AM
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How many empty joist bays do you have? I can forsee large subwoofer boxes there

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post #13 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 11:33 AM
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Ultimax 18 Price Change

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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
How many empty joist bays do you have? I can forsee large subwoofer boxes there


Haha I was thinking ahead.... I built the vulgar box so that the 4-21's would fit in there down the road and 8 um's ported up front. . I like the B&C's but there's nothing like low bass from the UM18's that they make. Derrickdj1 has a lot of these subs in his room and I loved the sound it made!
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Haha I was thinking ahead.... I built the vulgar box so that the 4-21's would fit in there down the road and 8 um's ported up front. . I like the B&C's but there's nothing like low bass from the UM18's that they make. Derrickdj1 has a lot of these subs in his room and I loved the sound it made!
Baby Jesus that is going to be just NASTY!

Maybe I need to wait till your final revision before driving up for a GTG there. My ears, body and mind may only be able to handle that room once lol....

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post #15 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
The basket hasn't changed in 2 years. Early on in the product life there was a subtle change to the basket, but the mounting surface remained the same. The listed dimensions on the website have been wrong for a long time, including the bolt pattern. The spec sheet still shows the wrong dimensions. The numbers listed on the product page appear much closer to reality.

Some production tweaks to the latest build which arrived at PE in June and are now sold through mostly eliminated the high excursion noise issues and should continue for the woofers going forward. I was not aware they were putting in a price increase and had no input or part in that. Considering the sales PE often runs, I suspect most could wait for a sale and get nearly the same price as before.
Mark, are you the UM18 whisperer or are you the secret designer of it or something?
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post #16 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Haha I was thinking ahead.... I built the vulgar box so that the 4-21's would fit in there down the road and 8 um's ported up front. . I like the B&C's but there's nothing like low bass from the UM18's that they make. Derrickdj1 has a lot of these subs in his room and I loved the sound it made!
lol and 6 15" subs ported to 12hz 12" away from you.
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post #17 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Mark, are you the UM18 whisperer or are you the secret designer of it or something?
The woofer whisperer might be appropriate in this case when it comes to sorting out what performance the drivers are capable of. I've just done complete testing on more Ultimax drivers than most anyone else while also having the experience to address various observed issues as it's clear to me now that too few in the industry bother to do the same. Unfortunately I'm a step or two removed from insuring such issues get addressed. Apart from the units that have had issues, it is still a very low distortion woofer within its operating range for quite reasonable money.
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post #18 of 176 Old 06-26-2017, 09:42 PM
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It's only been a few year and to get the same 8 Um divers was $ 480. 00 cheaper. No matter how you put it, this is a sizeable mark-up. More than regular inflation. The UM 18 is still a reasonable priced product but, the SI 18 in. driver will get a bit more looks and likes. Also, the Dayton flat pack price of $ 188 is quite a jump. You use to be able to get the driver and flat pack for $360. This is a popular driver and I wish I would of held the two I sold. Now I hope the I Nukes 3000 DSP do the same thing since I have a new one sitting in a box unused for the past year.

The new price is a gouge no matter how you look at it. Same basic diver and no major performance changes that really matter outside a model program. Dayton needs to keep their original moto for the gear intact, good quality, good price!
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post #19 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
It's only been a few year and to get the same 8 Um divers was $ 480. 00 cheaper. No matter how you put it, this is a sizeable mark-up. More than regular inflation. The UM 18 is still a reasonable priced product but, the SI 18 in. driver will get a bit more looks and likes. Also, the Dayton flat pack price of $ 188 is quite a jump. You use to be able to get the driver and flat pack for $360. This is a popular driver and I wish I would of held the two I sold. Now I hope the I Nukes 3000 DSP do the same thing since I have a new one sitting in a box unused for the past year.

The new price is a gouge no matter how you look at it. Same basic diver and no major performance changes that really matter outside a model program. Dayton needs to keep their original moto for the gear intact, good quality, good price!
I'd argue the original pricing was way too tight for them, and the process added over the years in attempts to address QC issues do add cost. The last few batches have all been 100% tested for clear travel within specified Xmax in free air. The package with flat pack was always oddly priced as Erich mentioned they were nearly loosing money on the flat pack portion. I think someone just finally looked at the actual costs there.

As for the $480 cheaper on 8 woofers, when were the woofers ever $216 each? Current pricing for 4+ is $276 each, and anyone paying attention will get a $30-100 discount on that many woofers with the regular deals PE sends out nearly every month. IMO the issue of value is simply a matter of QC. If they eliminate the woofers that had production issues, I don't currently see any readily available competition under $400 each on the market, especially one with 2 large shorting rings on the motor and the carbon dish cone everyone likes the look of.
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post #21 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
I would bet Parts Express pays 100$ per um18's-22. Theres no way there paying more for it with the amount they order.
For the raw drivers, maybe, but that seems low to me. The bulk of their cost is likely in Plant, Property, Equipment/Inventory. People to answer the phones and their darn near perfect return policy likely isn't cheap either. I agree with Mark in that you would be hard pressed to find a better performing and similarly equipped/optioned driver for the increased selling price. All of these points coupled with QC correction to decrease failed units, assuming that corrective action was effective, justify the small price increase in my opinion.
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post #22 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 07:02 AM
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Ultimax 18 Price Change

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Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post
For the raw drivers, maybe, but that seems low to me. The bulk of their cost is likely in Plant, Property, Equipment/Inventory. People to answer the phones and their darn near perfect return policy likely isn't cheap either. I agree with Mark in that you would be hard pressed to find a better performing and similarly equipped/optioned driver for the increased selling price. All of these points coupled with QC correction to decrease failed units, assuming that corrective action was effective, justify the small price increase in my opinion.


I agree with you when you put that way payroll, electric ,everything involved with running a company like providing insurance to employees. I totally get that but the raw cost has to be 100 per driver. I would still buy these at there new cost it just sucks when you see prices go up on stuff you want.
The cost per um18 driver once everything is figured in to run there company I'm sure does go up a bit vs what it is to order them right from the factory.

True fact ----If you say at a Hilton hotel it costs them 4 dollars per room (for an efficient hotel) to provide all the clean linen to it. This factors in soap to wash it the steam from the boiler to heat the equipment to press /ironer... the cost does go up when you factor in every day business cost.
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post #23 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 07:20 AM
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As well, there is also the free shipping they offer on the flat packs and driver and they are both weighty. Shipping costs usually only go up over time and they might have to compensate for that from time to time.
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post #24 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 07:58 AM
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I would bet Parts Express pays 100$ per um18's-22. Theres no way there paying more for it with the amount they order.
As you can probably imagine, I've looked into it. It is most certainly above $100, plus you have to deliver the containers or pallets to the US. They aren't running 1000 pieces per order, and while the cost does come down with quantity, not to the degree implied above.
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post #25 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 09:15 AM
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I would bet Parts Express pays 100$ per um18's-22. Theres no way there paying more for it with the amount they order.
Mark has said that's not true, but even if it was, so what? You don't know what their overhead is. They get to set their pricing and the market will decide if it's acceptable or not.

Does the price vs. cost of Nike's bother you this much?
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post #26 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 09:24 AM
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Mark has said that's not true, but even if it was, so what? You don't know what their overhead is. They get to set their pricing and the market will decide if it's acceptable or not.



Does the price vs. cost of Nike's bother you this much?


No it doesn't bother me read post 22 I said that in there, does it bother you what I posted? It seams your taking offense to what I said why? I would still buy the subs at there current price as I posted above again in post 22.

why you post that remark after what I said
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post #27 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 09:41 AM
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Hmm, I have been waffling on whether to buy the 6 I plan to use in my new theater now or to wait to see if something new/better/innovative comes out in that price point before I need them around January '18. Now I'm torn between pre-ordering them now to guarantee I get 6 in September or to wait and risk them going out of stock for another few months.


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post #28 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 09:44 AM
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It's still a great value. It's one of this drivers I'm considering for when I redo my theater in a year or so. Yeah, it sucks that it went up. But, I'd rather have an increase in price than no option for the UM18 at all. And, if the price increase yields better QC....then I'm all for it. Luckily, I'll only be buying 2....so the increase won't hurt my wallet as much.

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post #29 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 09:34 PM
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All I know is a few years ago, I ordered 8 or 10 UM 18's at $240 or $242 per driver. Now at $300 per driver it would cost 6X 8 or $ 480 more for eight. There is a small discount when ordering multiples so it would be less than $480. Either way, I'm glad I have mines from a perfect batch and the heck with the QC for my use.

I am definitely in the camp, I would buy more because it is that versatile of a driver and is great for movies and music. There are a ton is configurations that it can be used in and all with great performance benefits. I should of not sold 2 as used below $240.

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post #30 of 176 Old 06-27-2017, 09:40 PM
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With the price increase does it seem like 2 Stereo Integrity HT-18 v2 is a better deal? I know it is in my case sine my amp is 2ohm stable so basically it's 4 si's vs 2 Ultima's same wattage.
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