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post #1 of 18 Old 07-25-2017, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Questions on the UM18-22

Hey guys! I convinced a buddy of mine to go DIY for his new sub that is replacing an SVS PB12-NSD. He decided on the UM18-22 and is going to power it with the iNuke 3000DSP. Yesterday he was asking if he should go with the 4 cubic foot sealed box, or build a Marty for it. I was going to model both to see the difference, but I just didn't have the time. I am POSITIVE that this has already been done/talked about in here. So can you guys show me a side by side WinISD model of this, and/or point me in the right direction for some threads where this has come up that would be great.


Thanks,
Sean
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post #2 of 18 Old 07-25-2017, 06:36 AM
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Check the first post of the Marty faq. The ported Marty box extracts much more out of the sub, especially down low.

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post #3 of 18 Old 07-25-2017, 08:25 AM
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This is from the Marty FAQ thread

1a) Why not just build sealed subs. Easier to build ?
They are easier but the large ported subs simply offers the most bass for the money if you have the space for the large enclosures. not everybody does and not everybody cares about bang for the buck. it is all a tradeoff. the martysubs generally trade off larger size for more bass at the lowest possible cost while remaining a relatively simple build. Here is comparison with same driver with 1100 watts in a sealed cabinet (blue) vs. a martysub (red)
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post #4 of 18 Old 06-08-2018, 02:39 AM
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Hello I was running measurements of my UM18-22 with my crown xls 1502 . And this is what came out.. can anyone tell me if this is good or bad? I got a mini dsp also to make correction but still cant figure out this measurements. Help please!! I am using the Umk 1 from mini dsp at the liatening position about 11ft away from the sub. The mic is pointing at the sub. Attached image with the first measurement I took and also an image with the possible freq target after I adjust it with the DSP.
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post #5 of 18 Old 06-08-2018, 07:17 AM
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The response looks good for a measurement made in typical room. Although it is unclear what smoothing is being used (e.g. 1/3 octave), there appears to be a substantial response peak in the 35 Hz are and steep low pass filtering above 80 Hz. Moving the microphone position will probably produce a fair variation in response. Measure at the primary listening position and then experiment with subwoofer location to get a smooth curve and then electronically equalize only as necessary. Most listeners try for a response curve that smoothly declines 5-10 dB over the ten audible octaves (20 - 20,000 Hz). Good luck!
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post #6 of 18 Old 06-08-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
The response looks good for a measurement made in typical room. Although it is unclear what smoothing is being used (e.g. 1/3 octave), there appears to be a substantial response peak in the 35 Hz are and steep low pass filtering above 80 Hz. Moving the microphone position will probably produce a fair variation in response. Measure at the primary listening position and then experiment with subwoofer location to get a smooth curve and then electronically equalize only as necessary. Most listeners try for a response curve that smoothly declines 5-10 dB over the ten audible octaves (20 - 20,000 Hz). Good luck!
thank you for your response. There is no smoothing applied. And this measurement was done at listening position. Unforturnetly I cant play with sub positioning because thats the spot where I can have it.my main consern was if I was getting usable bass under 20hz down to 10hz with good amount of spl. But not sure how to use this test to verify this. Crown xls specs says roll off under 20hz but everyone said they actually dont roll off until under 10. Im sure I got something under 20hz but hiw can I test this?
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post #7 of 18 Old 06-08-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by canillo View Post
thank you for your response. There is no smoothing applied. And this measurement was done at listening position. Unforturnetly I cant play with sub positioning because thats the spot where I can have it.my main consern was if I was getting usable bass under 20hz down to 10hz with good amount of spl. But not sure how to use this test to verify this. Crown xls specs says roll off under 20hz but everyone said they actually dont roll off until under 10. Im sure I got something under 20hz but hiw can I test this?
There is reasonably good response to the infrasonic region. If the equalizer can flatten the 35 Hz bump (try a filter Q of 2 and about 5 db of attenuation to start) the sound should be good at the listening position. Run a variety of program material through the subwoofer and adjust overall level and filter characteristics. Remember that if it doesn't suit your ear, it isn't right regardless of the measurements.
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post #8 of 18 Old 06-08-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by canillo View Post
thank you for your response. There is no smoothing applied. And this measurement was done at listening position. Unforturnetly I cant play with sub positioning because thats the spot where I can have it.my main consern was if I was getting usable bass under 20hz down to 10hz with good amount of spl. But not sure how to use this test to verify this. Crown xls specs says roll off under 20hz but everyone said they actually dont roll off until under 10. Im sure I got something under 20hz but hiw can I test this?
There is reasonably good response to the infrasonic region. If the equalizer can flatten the 35 Hz bump (try a filter Q of 2 and about 5 db of attenuation to start) the sound should be good at the listening position. Run a variety of program material through the subwoofer and adjust overall level and filter characteristics. Remember that if it doesn't suit your ear, it isn't right regardless of the measurements.
thank you very much
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post #9 of 18 Old 06-08-2018, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
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thank you for your response. There is no smoothing applied. And this measurement was done at listening position. Unforturnetly I cant play with sub positioning because thats the spot where I can have it.my main consern was if I was getting usable bass under 20hz down to 10hz with good amount of spl. But not sure how to use this test to verify this. Crown xls specs says roll off under 20hz but everyone said they actually dont roll off until under 10. Im sure I got something under 20hz but hiw can I test this?
There is reasonably good response to the infrasonic region. If the equalizer can flatten the 35 Hz bump (try a filter Q of 2 and about 5 db of attenuation to start) the sound should be good at the listening position. Run a variety of program material through the subwoofer and adjust overall level and filter characteristics. Remember that if it doesn't suit your ear, it isn't right regardless of the measurements.
thank you very much
So accordi g to this measurement you think the crown is working great under 20hz? Should I keep the xover all the way down to 10hz? I think that bump at 35 can be fix easly. Is it normal that the sub starts dying around 80hz?
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by canillo View Post
So accordi g to this measurement you think the crown is working great under 20hz? Should I keep the xover all the way down to 10hz? I think that bump at 35 can be fix easly. Is it normal that the sub starts dying around 80hz?
High frequency roll off is common in large woofers with inductive voice coils; however, it is not usually this low or steep. Is there an electronic crossover somewhere in the system? The infrasonic response of the amplifier appears to be very linear. This is not a problem unless the subwoofer exceeds Xmax at these very low frequencies. Warped records and a few movies (e.g War of the Worlds from 2005) contain high levels of infrasonic energy.
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post #11 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by canillo View Post
So accordi g to this measurement you think the crown is working great under 20hz? Should I keep the xover all the way down to 10hz? I think that bump at 35 can be fix easly. Is it normal that the sub starts dying around 80hz?
High frequency roll off is common in large woofers with inductive voice coils; however, it is not usually this low or steep. Is there an electronic crossover somewhere in the system? The infrasonic response of the amplifier appears to be very linear. This is not a problem unless the subwoofer exceeds Xmax at these very low frequencies. Warped records and a few movies (e.g War of the Worlds from 2005) contain high levels of infrasonic energy.
first I wanna thank you for the information, I really appreciate it. After looking twice I realize the amp had the LPF applied at 80hz. This explains why is was rolling off so quick there. I also have another issue here. Yesderday I receive another pair of um18-22s. I order them because I wanted to add another one to the set up. Because dayton audio has been having QC issues before I started a new build, I wanted to test the woofers before hand. So I took the UM 18 I was using to run these measurements and swap the woofer for one of the new ones. Let it play deadly bass by dj dropping for about 30min .. 2 min of break before repeating the song. Everything sounded good. Prob a bit tigher than the old woofer, noticed the amp didnt clip as much. Was impressed. Then Pull out the umk1 and run rew... boom.... Rew keeps saying there was clipping detected and I have 0 headroom available. I checked everything I could possibly think off. I was runni g the test the exact same way I was before. In fact the new measurement seemed flatter but rew kept saying its too loud or clipping and 0 headroom. Any ideas of what this could be? Same amp, same box, same test. Could it be the new driver handles more power than the old one, causing the amp to clip because it doesnt have enought power. I have a xls 2002 that puts out about 600 rms more than the xls 1502. Should I use that one to test to see if anything changes?
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post #12 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 01:34 PM
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Is the amplifier clipping or the microphone/sound card overloading? Driving the amp to clipping should be producing prodigious amounts of bass and calls from the neighbors! Always test by slowly advancing the gain and adjusting the microphone/sound card level (if there is no automatic gain feature). The UM-18s are being tested by PE before shipment, so it is unlikely that the additional units are going to be a problem.
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post #13 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by canillo View Post
first I wanna thank you for the information, I really appreciate it. After looking twice I realize the amp had the LPF applied at 80hz. This explains why is was rolling off so quick there. I also have another issue here. Yesderday I receive another pair of um18-22s. I order them because I wanted to add another one to the set up. Because dayton audio has been having QC issues before I started a new build, I wanted to test the woofers before hand. So I took the UM 18 I was using to run these measurements and swap the woofer for one of the new ones. Let it play deadly bass by dj dropping for about 30min .. 2 min of break before repeating the song. Everything sounded good. Prob a bit tigher than the old woofer, noticed the amp didnt clip as much. Was impressed. Then Pull out the umk1 and run rew... boom.... Rew keeps saying there was clipping detected and I have 0 headroom available. I checked everything I could possibly think off. I was runni g the test the exact same way I was before. In fact the new measurement seemed flatter but rew kept saying its too loud or clipping and 0 headroom. Any ideas of what this could be? Same amp, same box, same test. Could it be the new driver handles more power than the old one, causing the amp to clip because it doesnt have enought power. I have a xls 2002 that puts out about 600 rms more than the xls 1502. Should I use that one to test to see if anything changes?
You may want to create your own thread and post all your charts and questions in it. You'll probably get better help than hijacking other member's threads.

Not only better help, but more consistent/complete help.

Perhaps breaking up the questions into numbered bullet points with enter-key spacings, instead of a 40-line wall of continuous text...

I haven't even read ONE of your questions because the big stream of text hertz my brain.

Just sayin'
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post #14 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by canillo View Post
first I wanna thank you for the information, I really appreciate it. After looking twice I realize the amp had the LPF applied at 80hz. This explains why is was rolling off so quick there. I also have another issue here. Yesderday I receive another pair of um18-22s. I order them because I wanted to add another one to the set up. Because dayton audio has been having QC issues before I started a new build, I wanted to test the woofers before hand. So I took the UM 18 I was using to run these measurements and swap the woofer for one of the new ones. Let it play deadly bass by dj dropping for about 30min .. 2 min of break before repeating the song. Everything sounded good. Prob a bit tigher than the old woofer, noticed the amp didnt clip as much. Was impressed. Then Pull out the umk1 and run rew... boom.... Rew keeps saying there was clipping detected and I have 0 headroom available. I checked everything I could possibly think off. I was runni g the test the exact same way I was before. In fact the new measurement seemed flatter but rew kept saying its too loud or clipping and 0 headroom. Any ideas of what this could be? Same amp, same box, same test. Could it be the new driver handles more power than the old one, causing the amp to clip because it doesnt have enought power. I have a xls 2002 that puts out about 600 rms more than the xls 1502. Should I use that one to test to see if anything changes?
You may want to create your own thread and post all your charts and questions in it. You'll probably get better help than hijacking other member's threads.

Not only better help, but more consistent/complete help.

Perhaps breaking up the questions into numbered bullet points with enter-key spacings, instead of a 40-line wall of continuous text...

I haven't even read ONE of your questions because the big stream of text hertz my brain.

Just sayin' [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I tried to start a new one but didnt find the option.and since the issue is related to the same driver and enclosure as the OP I tought it was my best shoot.
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post #15 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
Is the amplifier clipping or the microphone/sound card overloading? Driving the amp to clipping should be producing prodigious amounts of bass and calls from the neighbors! Always test by slowly advancing the gain and adjusting the microphone/sound card level (if there is no automatic gain feature). The UM-18s are being tested by PE before shipment, so it is unlikely that the additional units are going to be a problem.
how can I tell which one is clipping? I dont think the amp or subwoofer would clip with the test sound rew generates. When playing music I do have to crank it up pretty hight( HUGE bass coming out) to get the amp to clip. What can I be doing different than the first day that I was not having this issue?
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post #16 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Broke EF View Post
Hey guys! I convinced a buddy of mine to go DIY for his new sub that is replacing an SVS PB12-NSD. He decided on the UM18-22 and is going to power it with the iNuke 3000DSP. Yesterday he was asking if he should go with the 4 cubic foot sealed box, or build a Marty for it. I was going to model both to see the difference, but I just didn't have the time. I am POSITIVE that this has already been done/talked about in here. So can you guys show me a side by side WinISD model of this, and/or point me in the right direction for some threads where this has come up that would be great.


Thanks,
Sean
Get a 6000.

The 3000 isn't appropriate. It's rarely appropriate really.
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post #17 of 18 Old 06-09-2018, 05:16 PM
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If it's REW that says he has 0 headroom then it's REW (the mic) that's clipping I would would think, not the amp. If REW detected clipping and you still had headroom, then I'd say it was the amp.
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post #18 of 18 Old 06-12-2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I haven't even read ONE of your questions because the big stream of text hertz my brain.

Just sayin'
What is the frequency that you get on this forum?
Your answers cover the whole spectrum.
(I love making bad puns).
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