NU6000DSP Amp Rundown... - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 579Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #301 of 391 Old 05-07-2018, 03:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eng-399's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Plainfield IL.
Posts: 5,514
Mentioned: 536 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2424 Post(s)
Liked: 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
@eng-399 visited today. The filter definitely protected the drivers. We didn't have time to test and measure, I'll do that as promised in follow up.


It did protect drivers and we had them moving! Your setup sounded great btw congratulations! Lots of deep and tight bass those 21” B&C drivers delivered!
eng-399 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #302 of 391 Old 05-07-2018, 01:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,036
Mentioned: 362 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2514 Post(s)
Liked: 10918
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
@eng-399 visited today. The filter definitely protected the drivers. We didn't have time to test and measure, I'll do that as promised in follow up.
I would expect it to protect the drivers, as I think it should sum to what is essentially like a HPF with a hump before the ramp down. But unless you actually want that hump, why not use the negative HS12?

Note: You can sum these filters in REW's EQ section to see the result. Just uncheck "Invert Filter Responses" inside the EQ options pane.

Edit: It actually sums to something extremely similar to a 15Hz HPF with Q of 0.9; just know it's only ~6dB down at 10Hz.
biga6761 likes this.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 05-07-2018 at 01:27 PM.
aron7awol is online now  
post #303 of 391 Old 05-09-2018, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by killahertz357 View Post
Am I doing something wrong here?
I put the pic's back in the post here. I don't know why they disappeared, that was weird.
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #304 of 391 Old 05-09-2018, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
The filter definitely protected the drivers.
How much power to the 21's in what size box and alignment? Is your signal chain flat to begin with? When averaging the 2 curves together in REW it showed the curve in white:

Blue: +6dB low shelf @20hz
White: low shelf boost @20hz and 20Hz high passed averaged together
Green: high pass filter cheat with -3dB point of 14.2Hz
Red: 20Hz high pass

REW's math looks like it's a bit off for averaging these curves but none the less I think the high shelf cheat is probably a safer bet if you have a flat signal chain to begin with and you're riding the edge when it comes to power and excursion with full bandwidth content.

Keep in mind if you were to compare these 2 methods by measuring SPL, you would need a mic that measures accurate into the single digits.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Average.png
Views:	451
Size:	61.7 KB
ID:	2400698  
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
post #305 of 391 Old 05-09-2018, 01:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
NU6000DSP Amp Rundown...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
How much power to the 21's in what size box and alignment? Is your signal chain flat to begin with? When averaging the 2 curves together in REW it showed the curve in white:

Blue: +6dB low shelf @20hz
White: low shelf boost @20hz and 20Hz high passed averaged together
Green: high pass filter cheat with -3dB point of 14.2Hz
Red: 20Hz high pass

REW's math looks like it's a bit off for averaging these curves but none the less I think the high shelf cheat is probably a safer bet if you have a flat signal chain to begin with and you're riding the edge when it comes to power and excursion with full bandwidth content.

Keep in mind if you were to compare these 2 methods by measuring SPL, you would need a mic that measures accurate into the single digits.


21DS115-4, ~11cuft net, 14.8hz tune (dats verified) X 2 each powered by a channel of an inuke 6000dsp.

This is my build thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...c-21ds115.html

Edit:
I forgot to answer about signal chain. I actually do not know. I have a Phillips 4k Blu-ray player and Denon x2200w that feeds the inuke.

Last edited by corradizo; 05-09-2018 at 04:00 PM.
corradizo is online now  
post #306 of 391 Old 05-09-2018, 03:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Have any of you tried a program called Equalizer APO for PC? It has a variable equalizer down to 1hz. I was able to do a HPF with that. Pretty steep from 15hz down. How do you post pics in this forum. Im a noob.
killahertz357 is offline  
post #307 of 391 Old 05-09-2018, 03:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Essentially what im looking for, Is a 13-14hz super steep roll off HPF, that doesnt drop down 15-20hz . Because my box can play 15hz full tilt with zero excursion issues.
Im currently playing with Equalizer APO and will see what differences I get with the DSP turned on and then the DSP off and Equalizer APO enabled
killahertz357 is offline  
post #308 of 391 Old 05-09-2018, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,036
Mentioned: 362 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2514 Post(s)
Liked: 10918
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I forgot to answer about signal chain. I actually do not know. I have a Phillips 4k Blu-ray player and Denon x2200w that feeds the inuke.
I tested my X4100W and had hardly any rolloff until getting way into the single digits:
-0.2 dB @ 10Hz
-0.3 dB @ 9Hz
-0.4 dB @ 8Hz
-0.5 dB @ 7Hz
-0.8 dB @ 6Hz
-1.0 dB @ 5Hz
-1.7 dB @ 4Hz
-2.6 dB @ 3Hz
-5.3 dB @ 2Hz

I can't say all Denons have the same rolloff, but that's at least one really promising data point.
corradizo and biga6761 like this.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is online now  
post #309 of 391 Old 05-10-2018, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I tested my X4100W and had hardly any rolloff until getting way into the single digits:
Mind posting that graph?
Shreds is offline  
post #310 of 391 Old 05-11-2018, 10:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,036
Mentioned: 362 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2514 Post(s)
Liked: 10918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Mind posting that graph?
I don't have it, but I can do another measurement easily enough. My MiniDSP 2x4 HD has USB streaming capability, so I can measure the input into the MiniDSP directly from the AVR sub out and see the rolloff by doing an REW sweep with the MiniDSP USB stream as the input. I've found that functionality of the 2x4 HD to be really useful for this purpose and other similar purposes, such as observing the effects of Audyssey and Dynamic EQ.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is online now  
post #311 of 391 Old 05-11-2018, 02:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
NU6000DSP Amp Rundown...

I ran the two different filters. Didn't move the mic. Only other filter is at 90hz hs12 -14db q=.7 as recommend by @MarkSe aton to flatten out the response outdoors. this is without audyssey xt.



Mdat : https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv636znjaw...ared.mdat?dl=0

Last edited by corradizo; 05-11-2018 at 02:42 PM.
corradizo is online now  
post #312 of 391 Old 05-11-2018, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I ran the two different filters.
You have to match the levels of the comparison up high in the bandwidth by the crossover point. As aron pointed out, the knee of the filters is going to be different down low so matching them there will only be confusing. For example look at the -6dB high shelf next to the projected +6dB:


The curves will show a difference but they will show it down near the cutoff point.

You will also need to show a curve with no high pass filters as a baseline to make sure that your measurement rig is sensitive enough below 14Hz. You'll obviously have to pick a safe level to measure so that over-excursion isn't an issue.

This is winisd's prediction of your excursion in your box and amp:


It looks like with no filter at all, you could dump all of the nuke into a 21 and not see excursion being dangerous to the driver unless you were using source material that had reference level hits at 11Hz and under. You'd need to use something like TIH -abomination punch or Tron -porthole scene as test material and monitor excursion and amp levels.

What source material were you and eng using? Did the amp ever hit it's clip lights?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Two.png
Views:	393
Size:	22.7 KB
ID:	2401566   Click image for larger version

Name:	11Hz.png
Views:	357
Size:	33.8 KB
ID:	2401568  
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
post #313 of 391 Old 05-11-2018, 06:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
I used the .1 lfe channel (channel 4) via HDMI in Rew. The low pass for lfe on my Denon is set to 120hz so can I offset the graphs to line them up at 120hz?

If not, I can repeat the process. If i do repeat it, should I take the first measurement with no filters and level match the second with hs12 and third with LS12 to it using pink noise sub calibration via the Rew generator?

We did the 2016 Atmos disk demos and then did John Wick 2 with the avr at 0 sub trim, -10 then -5 then 0MV and the inuke at 15clicks on the exterior dial. I dialed it back to 9clicks which is where I usually keep it, because I think it was clipping. Definitely bounced the red lights. We used the JW2 chapter 8 gun scene and I could swear I could feel gunshots in different parts of my chest. Good times!
corradizo is online now  
post #314 of 391 Old 05-11-2018, 07:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
New graphs. Same mdat. It looks like the level didn't need to be adjusted at all as they match farther up.



corradizo is online now  
post #315 of 391 Old 05-12-2018, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
@corradizo It looks like you're sub level is not being properly calibrated after you're changing the filter settings. 80-100Hz should be at the same exact level. Also you shouldn't expect to see as radical of a difference across the whole sub band like that, just down by the cutoff point like I said.

Take a measurement with no high pass filter. Apply the high shelf method and then re-calibrate your sub channel's level using REW. Match the level at 80-100Hz.

Apply the low shelf method and then re-calibrate your sub level using REW again to match levels at 80-100Hz.

*OR*

Turn off your mains. Take the 3 measurements and shift the curves in REW so that the levels are the same at 80-100Hz.
Shreds is offline  
post #316 of 391 Old 05-12-2018, 12:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
@corradizo It looks like you're sub level is not being properly calibrated after you're changing the filter settings. 80-100Hz should be at the same exact level. Also you shouldn't expect to see as radical of a difference across the whole sub band like that, just down by the cutoff point like I said.

Take a measurement with no high pass filter. Apply the high shelf method and then re-calibrate your sub channel's level using REW. Match the level at 80-100Hz.

Apply the low shelf method and then re-calibrate your sub level using REW again to match levels at 80-100Hz.

*OR*

Turn off your mains. Take the 3 measurements and shift the curves in REW so that the levels are the same at 80-100Hz.


The mains were not on, those graphs are the subs only and were not shifted, only the filter was changed. I do have a fridge in the basement and the projector fan is variable speed so that can make measurements look off/ different. Maybe the settings didn't quite take since I set them in the front display? Not sure what happened. I'm just going to redo the test with: no high pass, highpass with the LS12 and highpass with the hs12. I'll remove the other contouring filter and will keep audyssey off.
corradizo is online now  
post #317 of 391 Old 05-12-2018, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
The mains were not on, those graphs are the subs only
Dang corr, your subs reach pretty high up!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Full range subs.png
Views:	380
Size:	222.6 KB
ID:	2401932  
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
post #318 of 391 Old 05-12-2018, 03:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
Ok, I repeated the experiment. I used the inuke software saving and storing each configuration change as i progressed to ensure the inuke was "taking" the updates. Avr was at -20MV and Rew measurements were also at -20dbfs this time so as to not disturb my wife. Mic is a standard umm-6 USB mic. All measurements this time were from 0hz to 300hz, again to not offend the Mrs. First I measured with no filters at all. Then I added in a second order Butterworth 20hz in the high pass section of the crossover section of the dsp and measured again. To that I added the filter for LS12 20hz +6db in the PEQ section and measured again. Finally I changed the LS12 to an HS12 20hz -6db in the PEQ section. I didn't change any levels throughout the test. I chose to shift the measurement as needed in Rew using the offset feature in the overlays section of Rew. The first screenshot shows the measurements with no offset added to the HS12. The second shot shows that it took exactly 6db to offset the HS12 measurement to match the others at 80hz.



unretarded likes this.
corradizo is online now  
post #319 of 391 Old 05-13-2018, 05:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Dang corr, your subs reach pretty high up!


It can certainly get up there. This is the product page for the driver http://www.bcspeakers.com/en/product...-0/4/21ds115-4

I'm going to have to run Rew again with just the sub output (channel 4) and double check that I'm not getting any sound out of the mains.
corradizo is online now  
post #320 of 391 Old 05-19-2018, 06:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked: 1587
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Ok, I repeated the experiment. I used the inuke software saving and storing each configuration change as i progressed to ensure the inuke was "taking" the updates. Avr was at -20MV and Rew measurements were also at -20dbfs this time so as to not disturb my wife. Mic is a standard umm-6 USB mic. All measurements this time were from 0hz to 300hz, again to not offend the Mrs. First I measured with no filters at all. Then I added in a second order Butterworth 20hz in the high pass section of the crossover section of the dsp and measured again. To that I added the filter for LS12 20hz +6db in the PEQ section and measured again. Finally I changed the LS12 to an HS12 20hz -6db in the PEQ section. I didn't change any levels throughout the test. I chose to shift the measurement as needed in Rew using the offset feature in the overlays section of Rew. The first screenshot shows the measurements with no offset added to the HS12. The second shot shows that it took exactly 6db to offset the HS12 measurement to match the others at 80hz.




@Shreds does this look like a valid test? Hope if did it right.
corradizo is online now  
post #321 of 391 Old 05-20-2018, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
biga6761's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Piney Flats, TN
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Love seeing all the recent activity in this thread. This thread ranks up there in my top 5 favs of all time on AVS. I feel like I recommend someone to read it at least once a week because of all the "must know" info here for an Inuke owner.

Also as always, @Shreads you are the freakin man and an irreplaceable asset to this community. Thanks for all you do and taking the time to help those in need of advise. Your skill level and knowledge are staggering sir, I dig it! I pass on all I can but freely admit to learning most of it from from you and Bosso here and at DataBass. The Diy sub community wouldn't be where it is today without you and pops being so willing to share all these years. Matter of fact thank Bosso for me too next time you get a chance. Lol he prob won't care but it will make me feel better and less like I stole something knowing all I do now because of you two badass cats.

Not sure if many here know where you got your name but I would feel remiss if I didn't mention what a crazy, insanely awesome musician you are too. I haven't heard a huge amount of your work but from what I have, Holy F*** bro I'm not sure the name "Shreads" even covers your guitar work man. I've said it before but just incase it didn't make it to your eyes, consider me a Fanboy of all your audio endeavors holmes.
Shreds likes this.

Epson 5040UB-125" Silver Ticket 2.35:1-Xbox One S- HTPC JRiver MC24
Marantz av7702 - Crestron CNAMPX-12x60 Fully Bridged to 6x220 - 2_Crown Xls 2000's
Crown Xls 1500 - Qsc RMX 1450 - Qsc RMX 850 - 2_Inuke 3kDSP's - Inuke 6kDSP
Speakers}7.4.4 Atmos DIYSoundGroup HTM-12's, Volt-8's
Subs}8 SI HT-18 v.2's SBA 11hz Ported IB-Nr Fld 2_PA460 MBM's-UM18 FMarty-2_Buttkicker's
biga6761 is offline  
post #322 of 391 Old 05-20-2018, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by biga6761 View Post
I feel like I recommend someone to read it at least once a week because of all the "must know" info here for an Inuke owner.
Thanks so much for the kind words biga, you're one of my favorite forum folks too! I'll let the bosso know you were thinkin' about him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it too. Maybe one day we'll get to hang out in person and shoot the breeze.
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
post #323 of 391 Old 05-20-2018, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
@Shreds does this look like a valid test?
Well I find it interesting if that means anything to you. I appreciate the hard work. I think the only thing you could do to see more of what's happening in the ULF region would be to plug your port, apply a LT curve to your sub and flatten your signal chain with the low end rolloff compensation method...

Then once you get as flat as possible response at LP you can then apply the high passes on top of everything else and see the difference below 15Hz. This testing methodology would cut out the phase shift of the port.

No big deal if you don't feel like doing that though, I know it's a pain to plug a port of that size. Either way, it's good data for this thread what you've already posted.
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
post #324 of 391 Old 05-29-2018, 12:35 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 14,454
Mentioned: 397 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5552 Post(s)
Liked: 5381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Thanks so much for the kind words biga, you're one of my favorite forum folks too! I'll let the bosso know you were thinkin' about him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it too. Maybe one day we'll get to hang out in person and shoot the breeze.
I'd be happy to be the mid-trip meeting location and introductory member between you guys. Jus' sayin'.
Shreds and biga6761 like this.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is offline  
post #325 of 391 Old 06-04-2018, 07:47 PM
Senior Member
 
jm10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
OK, where my sealed guys at?

If you set a 20Hz high shelf filter at 6dB/octave to -2.5dB, you can make the response of the nuke flat to 10Hz:

Green: Amp response with no EQ into 4 ohm load -starts rolling off at 42Hz, 1dB down @15.7Hz, 3dB down @6.6Hz
White: Low end extender curve into same load -starts rolling off at 9.6Hz, 1dB down @6.1Hz, 3dB down @3.2Hz

For those of you sealed guys with a more advanced skill set who have measured the rolloff of their signal chain with loopbacks in REW and need to compensate for the cumulative rolloff of your components or of just your AVR's sub output, I came up with a few options to bring back up the ULF:

Yellow: Flat amp response
Purple: 20Hz, 6dB/octave high shelf at -4dB
Red: 20Hz, 6dB/octave high shelf at -6dB
Teal: 20Hz, 6dB/octave high shelf at -10dB
Grey: 20Hz, 6dB/octave high shelf at -12dB
Green: 20Hz, 12dB/octave high shelf at -10dB

For the above rolloff boosters, I'd recommend testing with worst case scenario content (ULF) and ease up the level while monitoring excursion just to make sure you're not going to put yourself in a dangerous situation with your drivers. As with the HPF cheats, the low shelf attenuation will raise the noise floor and you will have to re-calibrate your sub level. I recommend doing that by using the front knobs on the amp (or worst case the gain in the DSP) as opposed to maxing out your AVR trim as this has shown problems with clipping strong re-directed bass signals in all of the AVR's that I've tested.
Hi... sorry for my ignorance, but this is only achievable on DSP models, correct?

Considering the DIY route with the famous PE bundle and learning a lot reading different threads.
wvu80 likes this.
jm10 is offline  
post #326 of 391 Old 06-04-2018, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
Hi... sorry for my ignorance, but this is only achievable on DSP models, correct?
Correct and no apology necessary. If you're thinking of putting together a sealed system, read up on the Linkwitz transform curve so you'll have some knowledge of how to mate your sealed response with your room gain at listening position so you can experience full bandwidth reproduction.
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
post #327 of 391 Old 06-04-2018, 08:23 PM
Senior Member
 
jm10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Correct and no apology necessary. If you're thinking of putting together a sealed system, read up on the Linkwitz transform curve so you'll have some knowledge of how to mate your sealed response with your room gain at listening position so you can experience full bandwidth reproduction.
Thanks, I will.

The current setup I have is as follow:
Yamaha A3060 -> Audyssey Sub EQ (similar to AS-EQ1) -> Single HSU Sub 12"

This is what I am planning:
Yamaha A3060 -> Audyssey Sub EQ -> iNuke 6000DSP -> Dual UM 18-22

I notice the Audyssey Sub EQ equipment have a max input of 6.0 volts rms and 8.46 volts rms of output... so I assume I will not have any infamous gain issue.

I tested sub locations (i.e. avoiding nasty nulls) with my 12" in sealed mode trying to resemble as much as possible the response I would get of the 18 as per available locations.

I think I will need this trick to get a better flat response given the natural early roll-off of sealed systems...or the Audyssey Sub EQ can do the magic of flattening out my response with out any additional filter (so I can buy the non DSP version)?
jm10 is offline  
post #328 of 391 Old 06-06-2018, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
This is what I am planning:
Yamaha A3060 -> Audyssey Sub EQ -> iNuke 6000DSP -> Dual UM 18-22
Since you'll be running 2 drivers check out dual opposed which cancels vibration like in this thread. In fact, you'd probably get good results with the UM18 if you use the same sized box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
I think I will need this trick to get a better flat response given the natural early roll-off of sealed systems...or the Audyssey Sub EQ can do the magic of flattening out my response with out any additional filter (so I can buy the non DSP version)?
I am not a fan of auto EQ's because they aren't as smart as people. I always prefer to have control over any filters applied to a system. Also, if running sealed and with the DSP you can compensate for the nuke's low end rolloff and flatten it's response to 10Hz. If you're trying to save 50 bucks and aren't really that demanding of your low end, it certainly is an option.
jm10 and biga6761 like this.
Shreds is offline  
post #329 of 391 Old 06-06-2018, 01:31 PM
Senior Member
 
jm10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
Also, if running sealed and with the DSP you can compensate for the nuke's low end rolloff and flatten it's response to 10Hz.
Thanks for your help on this as I am a newbie in all this DIY sub stuff and every time I am going to pull the trigger to order those UM18... then another issue (from my point of view) appears that back me up.


1) Based on your measurements... Do you think the iNuke can sustain heavy ~10Hz LFE in movies for long periods (lets said 10 seconds or so) without clipping or power cycling while delivering at least 1.5K WRMS 4ohm @ around that same frequency? If not, what would be the closest performance I can get at 10hz?

2) Also, do you know if the PE bundle + an iNuke 6000 can match the >same performance Ricci mesaured< ? He tested with another amp that is well capable.

3) On another forum somebody was complaining about his 18 subs clipping on WW using a Beringer EPX 4000... then another person posted this (see bellow).... will that happen with iNuke 6000?

Quote:
It has to do with the amps that are not designed to deliver that high current over such a long period of time, they are designed for regular music and are measured with a crest factor of 6 or higher, the power supply of the amp sags, meaning, the amp can only produce significant output in a sine wave mode below 20Hz at a fraction of it’s rated output, say -12 or even -18dB. Since the signals on Wonder Woman are so low in frequency, like 5Hz, the amp needs to deliver extreme amounts of current, and modern switch mode Power supplies are not designed for that, not even if you buy the best amps like Lab Gruppen 20kW, they sag the peer too. Only old style amps with regular linear PS don’t, ideal amps are Crest CA18, crown Delta Omega etc.
jm10 is offline  
post #330 of 391 Old 06-06-2018, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Shreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
1) Based on your measurements... Do you think the iNuke can sustain heavy ~10Hz LFE in movies for long periods (lets said 10 seconds or so) without clipping or power cycling while delivering at least 1.5K WRMS 4ohm @ around that same frequency?
1.5kW average power total output on both channels combined? Probably depending on your power line in your house that feeds the amp. I recommend a 30A 120V line for ample headroom. Here is your modeled excursion with about 1kW per driver:


It gets a bit better if you go larger than 4 cubes, here's 6:


Low end efficiency also goes up with a bigger box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
2) Also, do you know if the PE bundle + an iNuke 6000 can match the >same performance Ricci mesaured< ? He tested with another amp that is well capable.
This is a very good question... the answer is no, not at all. You'd be comparing the max numbers on a driver tested with a k20 amp in a 4 cube box. If you drove the driver with another amp with considerably less output capabilities in a different sized box, obviously the test would reflect much different results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
3) On another forum somebody was complaining about his 18 subs clipping on WW using a Beringer EPX 4000... then another person posted this (see bellow).... will that happen with iNuke 6000?
What is WW? What 18 subs? Link the thread.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Excursh.png
Views:	225
Size:	14.8 KB
ID:	2412924   Click image for larger version

Name:	Excursh 2.png
Views:	208
Size:	18.2 KB
ID:	2412928  
biga6761 likes this.
Shreds is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off