12" JBL speaker $29 on black friday at Bestbuy - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 2704 Old 02-21-2019, 02:10 PM
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Nice, glad its getting to your liking. Mixing sealed and ported can get interesting which is why I made the choice to go all sealed and ditch my quadhorn.

My setup sounds good but the real kicker is that I have loads of headroom. If someone is like "eh thats not that great", I go oh hold on and turn the inuke up 2-3 notches and give it another go lol. The 6000dsp drives them well, I rarely get a 2nd signal light. My boxes are closer to 2cuft a driver though as well so that may help.

I love em, best idea ever. Like you said, it just sounds good in every seat rather than just one, everything is more even.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #1592 of 2704 Old 02-21-2019, 04:49 PM
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P.S. I am learning not to quote entire posts!!
Today, one member. Tomorrow, the whole community!
Wishful thinking.
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post #1593 of 2704 Old 02-21-2019, 07:25 PM
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As long as you aren't the FIRST person to respond to a thread that's a mile long and you quote it, you're fine in my book. I'd like to slap some people for that.
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- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #1594 of 2704 Old 02-21-2019, 07:53 PM
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I just received a refurb today in case anyone has any questions. Looks brand new to me. Has tech spec in bag. Magnet was wrapped in foam and speaker had styrofoam fitted over top. If anyone needs me to inspect it to verify it's quality let me know. No amp to test it on yet .
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post #1595 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 05:37 PM
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Just ordered 9.

Michael
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post #1596 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 05:53 PM
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Just ordered 9.

Michael

Why not 16 or 20


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post #1597 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 06:24 PM
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post #1598 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 06:30 PM
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Obviously, you've forgotten this:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post57518464





Michael


So why not 18


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post #1599 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 06:36 PM
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post #1600 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 07:35 PM
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Maybe.
Stay tuned.

To what port frequency


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post #1601 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 07:37 PM
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post #1602 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 07:46 PM
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Sealed, no ports.
http://www.qpowerinc.com/details.aspx?product_id=20113
Next purchase.
Michael


It was a cheap attempt at humor stay TUNED (as in ported sub)....

Epic fail though


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post #1603 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 08:06 PM
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This brings about a good question. How many subs to have on each channel, and how many channels to have.

It's slowly coming around to common knowledge that the concept of more subwoofers (non-co-located) is the key to victory for smooth and even frequency response vice more capable subwoofers in 1-2 locations.

I have a "wall" of 12's behind me for the nearfield effect but I treat them basically as one speaker, which if it isn't right, it isn't that far off from right since they're all in a relatively small area.

Phase 2 plans:

Channel 1: Main, Stereo Left
Channel 2: Main, Stereo Right
Channel 3: Subwoofer, Front Left Outside Main Speaker
Channel 4: Subwoofer, Front Left Inside Main Speaker
Channel 5: Subwoofer, Front Right Inside Main Speaker
Channel 6: Subwoofer, Front Right Outside Main Speaker
Channel 7: Subwoofer, Nearfield array
Channel 8: (optional, split nearfield into L&R, not sure if worth the effort)

Would use multi-sub optimizer on channels 3 through 6 to set distance/delay and eq them individually whole she-bang, then eq the nearfields (different target) for the desired tactile response.

Best I can tell, it makes sense to use about 4 JBL's per channel on the non-nearfields. This ends up being 16 JBL's across the front, and 4 bass channels, which is simply four 4 ohm loads. I like using crown, so two 2502's could be used in stereo just fine (~775 watts per 4 JBL's) or I could continue to be ridiculous and use 4 1502's (~1500 watts bridged per 4 JBL's).

The nearfields use quite a bit less power, and I do like their level to be a little lower as compared to the front, as I don't like hearing bass come from behind me -it has to blend with the fronts well for me to be happy. I was figuring I'd stick with 12 back there since I have them already but I could probably reduce it to 8 ( ) or increase it to 16 ( ) to make the load easier. Not sure it really matters.

Regardless, roughly speaking, this is the 28 JBL plan. This will take me a while, I have to do this in increments. I can start on the 16 up front pretty soon, but will take a while to get the processor I want (and sell off the ultimax's).

I did consider making some dual-opposed 8 JBL towers, but ultimately I believe spreading the bass around to 5-6 locations and eq'ing them like that will give me better results than the same drivers in less locations.

Any particular thoughts on this approach?


Chris

Last edited by Chris Popovich; 02-25-2019 at 08:37 PM.
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post #1604 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 08:31 PM
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Addressing the video side of things, if you can find a way to, even temporarily, hang a black or dark burgundy fabric behind your screen, I believe you will notice an improvement.
Michael


you could do a black roll down motor shade behind the tv...


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post #1605 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 09:22 PM
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It was a cheap attempt at humor stay TUNED (as in ported sub)....
Epic fail though
Had the emoticon shown up, that might have clued us in. Clever, actually.
So just a little fail, and not entirely your fault.

Michael
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post #1606 of 2704 Old 02-25-2019, 09:27 PM
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Any particular thoughts on this approach?
Just off the top of my head: OVERKILL!
Of course, there's nothing wrong with that around here, but I'd think the wall of nearfields behind and a sub or two in front would pretty much cover the room.
That's my ultimate plan: replacing the 2 Behringer 1200Ds (behind, nearfield) with nine JBLs.
A work in planning.
Michael
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post #1607 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 04:09 AM
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Just ordered 9.

Michael
Dang you... I was about to order 12, and there are only 4 remaining in stock.
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post #1608 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 04:17 AM
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Dang you... I was about to order 12, and there are only 4 remaining in stock.
And now there are zero left.


I'm not building anything anytime soon (I'm currently deployed overseas), so I'll pick up a few here and there and have my wife (who gave me prior authorization to buy subs ) will store them for me until I return home.
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post #1609 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 04:45 AM
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How do you go about dsp with 9 subs is my question. 8 makes sense with 4 on each channel and 2 sub outs on the receiver.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #1610 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 04:58 AM
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How do you go about dsp with 9 subs is my question. 8 makes sense with 4 on each channel and 2 sub outs on the receiver.
You wire them in a series-parallel configuration to get 4 ohms on a single channel.


See the Magic Square picture above.
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post #1611 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 05:04 AM
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Has anyone used multi-sub optimizer with near-field subs?

I've been messing with my 8x JBLs up front and 2x UM18's behind the sofa for awhile. I've gotten something pretty close but decided to give MSO a try this weekend.

It worked like a champ. Much better than my flailing around ever could've done. The problem is that the near-field subs provide way too much tactile response (I know, who'd have thought). Music is a no-go since every bass note is felt rather than heard.

My thought is to re-measure for MSO with the near-fields turned down and then just constrict MSO's ability to give the near-field's any gain. Just wondering if anyone else has used MSO with near-field subs (JBLs or other) and how you dealt with adjusting the output of the near-fields.
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post #1612 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 05:33 AM
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You wire them in a series-parallel configuration to get 4 ohms on a single channel.


See the Magic Square picture above.
Right, it just limits your options, I have 4 in each front corner and like that they can be adjusted separately.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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Right, it just limits your options, I have 4 in each front corner and like that they can be adjusted separately.
There's an easy solution to that...




...put nine in each corner.
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post #1614 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 07:30 AM
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And now there are zero left.
I'm not building anything anytime soon (I'm currently deployed overseas), so I'll pick up a few here and there and have my wife (who gave me prior authorization to buy subs ) will store them for me until I return home.
I'm sorry (sort of).

Thank you for serving.
They, or something like them, may still show up again at $29 clearance. They may not, which is why I bought them now.


Which brings me to a first-world dilemma:
I currently have an iNuke 3000DSP powering two 15" four ohm subs.
How important is it to have an equal load on both channels of an amp?
If they need to be the same, my options are:
2 15s @ 2 ohms and 8 JBLs @ 2 ohms
1 15 @ 4 ohms and 9 JBLs @ 4 ohms
2 15s @ 8 ohms and 8 JBLs @ 8 ohms
or can I have
9 JBLs @ 4 ohms and 2 15s @ either 2 or 8 ohms?

Many thanks.
Michael

Last edited by LastButNotLeast; 02-26-2019 at 08:16 AM. Reason: got my 12s and 15s mixed up!
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post #1615 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 07:32 AM
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...put nine in each corner.
No, I won't get another amp.

Michael
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post #1616 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 08:00 AM
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This brings about a good question. How many subs to have on each channel, and how many channels to have.

It's slowly coming around to common knowledge that the concept of more subwoofers (non-co-located) is the key to victory for smooth and even frequency response vice more capable subwoofers in 1-2 locations.

I have a "wall" of 12's behind me for the nearfield effect but I treat them basically as one speaker, which if it isn't right, it isn't that far off from right since they're all in a relatively small area.

Phase 2 plans:

Channel 1: Main, Stereo Left
Channel 2: Main, Stereo Right
Channel 3: Subwoofer, Front Left Outside Main Speaker
Channel 4: Subwoofer, Front Left Inside Main Speaker
Channel 5: Subwoofer, Front Right Inside Main Speaker
Channel 6: Subwoofer, Front Right Outside Main Speaker
Channel 7: Subwoofer, Nearfield array
Channel 8: (optional, split nearfield into L&R, not sure if worth the effort)

Would use multi-sub optimizer on channels 3 through 6 to set distance/delay and eq them individually whole she-bang, then eq the nearfields (different target) for the desired tactile response.

Best I can tell, it makes sense to use about 4 JBL's per channel on the non-nearfields. This ends up being 16 JBL's across the front, and 4 bass channels, which is simply four 4 ohm loads. I like using crown, so two 2502's could be used in stereo just fine (~775 watts per 4 JBL's) or I could continue to be ridiculous and use 4 1502's (~1500 watts bridged per 4 JBL's).

The nearfields use quite a bit less power, and I do like their level to be a little lower as compared to the front, as I don't like hearing bass come from behind me -it has to blend with the fronts well for me to be happy. I was figuring I'd stick with 12 back there since I have them already but I could probably reduce it to 8 ( ) or increase it to 16 ( ) to make the load easier. Not sure it really matters.

Regardless, roughly speaking, this is the 28 JBL plan. This will take me a while, I have to do this in increments. I can start on the 16 up front pretty soon, but will take a while to get the processor I want (and sell off the ultimax's).

I did consider making some dual-opposed 8 JBL towers, but ultimately I believe spreading the bass around to 5-6 locations and eq'ing them like that will give me better results than the same drivers in less locations.

Any particular thoughts on this approach?


Chris
Hey Chris.....it sounds like you're after improved seat-to-seat. If so, 4 sub positions is optimum. Welti and Geddes have both went on record to say over 4 is diminishing returns on investment. If you have an enclosed rectangular room (which I don't think you have, if I recall correctly), placement is rather straight forward....either the 4 corners or the mid-points of each wall. This will get you 90% of the way to optimizing seat-to-seat without any DSP.

For your open floor plan room (correct me if I'm wrong), using MSO is probably the quickest path to great seat to seat for your non-traditional room and non-traditional sub locations.

All the above is for far-field placement/optimization.....in my opinion, the near-field subs should be treated like any other tactile device and added after all room optimization is completed and then just simply adjust gain and LPF for the nearfields to your liking.

But, it really depends on your seating positions also....if your seating is near the back wall and you don't have any other option for moving the seating into the room, then including the nearfields in MSO may help.

The nearfields will be used by MSO to cancel the boundary gain you get from the room when sitting back there and make the overall sound more balanced from seat to seat. But, the downside of using the nearfields to cancel the boundary gain is the SPL may be too much and start to feel gimmicky when sitting right next to them.

If you're sitting close to the back wall, you'll probably have to try it both ways, using the nearfields in MSO and not using the nearfields in MSO to see which you prefer.

Lastly, if you're looking for the best starting point and have some flexibility in the room, the following are the optimum locations to start with in rank order of importance to seat to seat variability in a rectangular room.

1) seating position, seats placed close to thirds of the room, length and width
2) 4 subs in each corner or at mid-points

As you deviate from these optimum positions or your room isn't rectangular, more DSP and measurement will be needed.

Hope some of this helps.
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post #1618 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 08:10 AM
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^^^ +1 The bass bibles are right there!
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post #1619 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 08:14 AM
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Yep, she's an open floor plan with the listening position against one of the walls and the main speakers acoustically in the center of a large room. I tried things the other way around; mains on/near wall and listening position towards middle, but that ended up being a black hole of bass, and when I did make things a little better, I was pretty sure my sliding glass door was going to give up the ghost.

I figured I'd do MSO on eveything but the nearfields, then manually blend the nearfields to volume/desired tactile response. I definitely do not want the same target curve on them as the rest of the system for reasons we all understand. I think DIRAC will make this easier with both different target and levels very easy to run and change. I hope. Ha!

Chris
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post #1620 of 2704 Old 02-26-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I currently have an iNuke 3000DSP powering two 15" four ohm subs.
How important is it to have an equal load on both channels of an amp?
If they need to be the same, my options are:
2 15s @ 2 ohms and 8 JBLs @ 2 ohms
1 15 @ 4 ohms and 9 JBLs @ 4 ohms
2 15s @ 8 ohms and 8 JBLs @ 8 ohms
or can I have
9 JBLs @ 4 ohms and 2 15s @ either 2 or 8 ohms?

Many thanks.
Michael
So does this question belong elsewhere?
Michael
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