12" JBL speaker $29 on black friday at Bestbuy - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 08:52 AM
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I finally got around to ordering what I need to put my subs together, amp, boxes, wire, but I didn't know what grille will work with these subs. Will any 12" grille work or are these considered long throw subs that need extra space between the driver and the grille?
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post #1712 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dTorC4 View Post
Buy now, ask questions later!

Stop pressuring me!!!!!


But that's probably good advice. If I get a couple I can figure out how to use them best later. It will either be built into the rear riser in a horn or large ported config, or up front behind the screen if they would work as midbass modules.
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post #1713 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 09:13 AM
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^^^^ That's what I did also....seen them on sale, bought 6 on a whim. After a couple experiments the BOSS was born...lol.

Given the cost, I'm beginning to think these little beauties are a great building block for any speaker design! My design is totally open baffle and they do great. Others are using them at the other extreme, totally sealed and small internal volumes with gobs of DSP power. The results seem to be satisfactory either way for anyone who's tried them so far.

Not yet, have I heard anyone say on this thread, "man, this was a mistake buying these JBL's".....lol. Quite the opposite, after you buy some, you start thinking how can I put more of these to task...lol.
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post #1714 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
Stop pressuring me!!!!!


But that's probably good advice. If I get a couple I can figure out how to use them best later. It will either be built into the rear riser in a horn or large ported config, or up front behind the screen if they would work as midbass modules.
Start with 4 because 2 isn't enough.
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post #1715 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Question time since these things are back to $29. Would you swap out 8 of these JBLs for 2 UM18's? (all sealed)
I wouldn't bother myself, that's more of a lateral move than anything else.

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post #1716 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 09:30 AM
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I'm offing my UM18's for a pile of JBL's. Nothing against the UM18's, just winning with cone area.

Chris
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post #1717 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
I'm offing my UM18's for a pile of JBL's. Nothing against the UM18's, just winning with cone area.

Chris
That's my thinking as well. I love my UM18's and maybe I can use them somewhere else, but with the JBLs, I could get full nearfield coverage of my seating (4 seats in a row). Tough decision.
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post #1718 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I wouldn't bother myself, that's more of a lateral move than anything else.
I think you're right. I've had my 2 UM18's up front and now I've got 8 JBLs. I want to believe that the JBLs have a little more punch in the upper bass but without going back and forth, I can't tell (which means it can't be that much of a difference. It certainly wasn't night and day. Wider spread for nearfield with the JBLs though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottlemech2 View Post
Start with 4 because 2 isn't enough.
As much as I love the "more is more" AVS philosophy, these will just be jammed in to supplement a pair of uxl-18s with some extra room balancing and nearfield bass.

And I ordered 2. Looks like my list of projects is growing again.

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post #1720 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 12:29 PM
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Hi Guys,

I finally took the plunge with today's price drop and ordered 4 of these drivers. I already have an inuke 3000 dsp that I plan to power them with and plan to order two of these boxes to house them unless you direct me otherwisehttps://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_1583_Dual-12-3-4-MDF-Sealed-Subwoofer-Enclosure-Belva-MDFD12.html My question for you guys is what else do I need put this together? I have never built or assembled a speaker before and I can't cut wood to save my life so I thought it would be better to use prebuilt boxes for my first foray. I plan on experimenting with these as nearfield as well as placing them up front between my LCR's to see what sounds best. Any direction you have is appreciated.
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post #1721 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
Hi Guys,

I finally took the plunge with today's price drop and ordered 4 of these drivers. I already have an inuke 3000 dsp that I plan to power them with and plan to order two of these boxes to house them unless you direct me otherwisehttps://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_1583_Dual-12-3-4-MDF-Sealed-Subwoofer-Enclosure-Belva-MDFD12.html My question for you guys is what else do I need put this together? I have never built or assembled a speaker before and I can't cut wood to save my life so I thought it would be better to use prebuilt boxes for my first foray. I plan on experimenting with these as nearfield as well as placing them up front between my LCR's to see what sounds best. Any direction you have is appreciated.
Just off the top of my head: RCA->XLR cable if you don't already have one (to go between your AVR and the NU3000D), speaker wire, banana jacks for the speaker connection, speakon connectors for the NU3000D connection, more polyfill, speaker gasket foam tape (you could get at Home Depot), screws to mount the drivers, and spade connectors for the speaker wire inside the enclosures. That's all I've got.
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post #1722 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
I have never built or assembled a speaker before and I can't cut wood to save my life so I thought it would be better to use prebuilt boxes for my first foray.
I have and I'm still going with prebuilt.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Q-POWER....c100005.m1851
I'm using the triples; you may want either singles or doubles.
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I have and I'm still going with prebuilt.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Q-POWER....c100005.m1851
I'm using the triples; you may want either singles or doubles.
Michael
Interesting. I have the skills so I was going to do the cs1214 end tables but the wife would be much happier with these. I could hide 2-3 these in my large room easily, so let me ask what your application is for?

In that small 1 ft3 enclosure they model down to like 55hz in Winisd and I do not have anything that covers the low 15hz to 50hz range. Do you already have a big 18" or something for those frequencies and these are just going to be MBM's?

Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Just off the top of my head: RCA->XLR cable if you don't already have one (to go between your AVR and the NU3000D), speaker wire, banana jacks for the speaker connection, speakon connectors for the NU3000D connection, more polyfill, speaker gasket foam tape (you could get at Home Depot), screws to mount the drivers, and spade connectors for the speaker wire inside the enclosures. That's all I've got.


Thanks! I had already been using the amp in another room while I waited for these things to go back on sale so I already have the speakon and the the XLR connectors. Looks like I just need the gasket tape, poly fill, screws and spade connectors to go along with the boxes. I think I am going to order the ones I linked to earlier as the are 3/4 inch MDF, have the wire cups in the back for cleaner wiring and have a tiny bit more volume than the qpower ones. Thanks for the help!


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post #1725 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Interesting. I have the skills so I was going to do the cs1214 end tables but the wife would be much happier with these. I could hide 2-3 these in my large room easily, so let me ask what your application is for?

In that small 1 ft3 enclosure they model down to like 55hz in Winisd and I do not have anything that covers the low 15hz to 50hz range. Do you already have a big 18" or something for those frequencies and these are just going to be MBM's?

Thanks!
The CS1214's will get you down to 20Hz, you just have to aggressively cut the higher frequencies (or boost the lower ones).
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
The CS1214's will get you down to 20Hz, you just have to aggressively cut the higher frequencies (or boost the lower ones).
Do you think 2 of these sealed, situated in best locations of the room with some heavy dsp, I could get down to 20hz-30hz?

I have kids so I will not push them very often, but on movie night I would really like to rattle something in the house LOL


Thanks
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post #1727 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Do you think 2 of these sealed, situated in best locations of the room with some heavy dsp, I could get down to 20hz-30hz?

I have kids so I will not push them very often, but on movie night I would really like to rattle something in the house LOL


Thanks
Sure they can. Here's what I get with 8 of them:



That's with a lot of boost @20hz . I just modeled my sealed 8x JBL in WinISD after reading your post and sure enough, I'm busting the cone excursion limit by a huge margin at full power. That means that I'm no where near full power but I need to be careful I guess (it's plenty loud enough for me in my room and they haven't bottomed out yet).

With only 2 or 3 of them, depending upon your room and placement, you may end up feeding them more power than I am to get them to match the levels of your mains. I'm no expert at this, but I'd guess that yes, they can definitely be pretty flat to 20Hz but with fewer of them, you run the risk of hitting the excursion limit.
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post #1728 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:14 PM
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My boxes will be here tomorrow. Unfortunately, I just had surgery and will be out of commission for a couple of weeks, so the project is on hold (which may kill me since the surgery didn't ). So I guess this will whet the appetite for the "Magic Square Array:"





Nine speakers in three rows of three running off one channel of an iNuke 3000DSP.
I will have everything once the boxes arrive (thanks for the reminder about the foam tape, guys ).


Of course, I managed to pay more for refurbs than these are now (another story of my life). Get these now, you won't be sorry.
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post #1729 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:19 PM
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I just played with WinISD some more. It looks like with my filtering I added, I've got to keep the power under 150W total for all 8 to stay under the cone excursion limit. That gets me to 105db @20hz though at 10ft away from them. I guess that's why everyone's getting 8 or 16 of them

So the answer is yes, it will work to 20Hz, but the SPL output will be limited if you want to stay under the cone excursion limit. Whatever that limit is might be plenty loud enough for you or it might not.
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post #1730 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Sure they can. Here's what I get with 8 of them:



That's with a lot of boost @20hz . I just modeled my sealed 8x JBL in WinISD after reading your post and sure enough, I'm busting the cone excursion limit by a huge margin at full power. That means that I'm no where near full power but I need to be careful I guess (it's plenty loud enough for me in my room and they haven't bottomed out yet).

With only 2 or 3 of them, depending upon your room and placement, you may end up feeding them more power than I am to get them to match the levels of your mains. I'm no expert at this, but I'd guess that yes, they can definitely be pretty flat to 20Hz but with fewer of them, you run the risk of hitting the excursion limit.
Yes I can increase power to 400w each using a slot port and it just barely keeps the excursion and port velocity in check.

I am playing with it in winisd, but I am a novice so still making tweaks.

Thanks again!
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Yes I can increase power to 400w each using a slot port and it just barely keeps the excursion and port velocity in check.

I am playing with it in winisd, but I am a novice so still making tweaks.

Thanks again!
The nukes have a Low Shelf filter (which is what I use in mine - [email protected] +15db).

I couldn't model it exactly in WinISD since it doesn't have a Low Shelf filter so I used a Parametric EQ filter in WinISD at +12db, 20Hz, Q=2. Look at the SPL graph. Then look at the cone excursion. Start dropping the power in the signal until you don't violate the cone excursion. Then go look at SPL and see what you have.
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post #1732 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:25 PM
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Never mind; it looks like you've already done that and you're ported where I am sealed. Don't forget the High Pass Filter for ported!
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post #1733 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:25 PM
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The spec sheet (which is dealing with a sealed enclosure in a car) suggests 12dB LP @ 80Hz.
One of the many experiments I look forward to conducting.
Michael

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post #1734 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Never mind; it looks like you've already done that and you're ported where I am sealed. Don't forget the High Pass Filter for ported!
I am looking at multiple sealed enclosures now because after doing the sub crawl, the best 2 locations in my room really require a small sealed box. Plus I already have two cs1214s in my office waiting for an enclosure to call home.

Winisd has a hpf that I modeled at 27hz, not sure if that is what you were talking about? Or you talking about an hpf within the inuke?

Thanks again!
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post #1735 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
I am looking at multiple sealed enclosures now because after doing the sub crawl, the best 2 locations in my room really require a small sealed box. Plus I already have two cs1214s in my office waiting for an enclosure to call home.
What size are we talking? Even if you can only fit 2cf, you can tune to 20Hz and get 100dB each down to 17Hz and 102dB each @ 20Hz. With 2 you're at 106dB @ 17Hz and 108dB @ 20Hz. Are those two best locations corner loaded or wall loaded? How far are they from MLP?

If you can do:
2.5cf adds 1.7dB @ 20Hz
3cf adds 3.1dB @ 20Hz
3.5cf adds 4.2dB @ 20Hz

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Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 03-15-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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post #1736 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post

Winisd has a hpf that I modeled at 27hz, not sure if that is what you were talking about? Or you talking about an hpf within the inuke?

Thanks again!
In the inuke. If you go ported, you'll need to add a HPF near the tuning frequency to prevent going past the cone excursion below tuning.
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post #1737 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
What size are we talking? Even if you can only fit 2cf, you can tune to 20Hz and get 100dB each down to 17Hz and 102dB each @ 20Hz. With 2 you're at 106dB @ 17Hz and 108dB @ 20Hz. Are those two best locations corner loaded or wall loaded? How far are they from MLP?

If you can do:
2.5cf adds 1.7dB @ 20Hz
3cf adds 3.1dB @ 20Hz
3.5cf adds 4.2dB @ 20Hz
Aron #1 sub, which is near the LCR would be about 1.5 ft3 max and #2 can be as large as 3.5 ft3 as it is opposite corner and next to the couch.

I have kids so it will not be cranked often, so I don't need massive db

#1 is near the LCR up front and is corner loaded, #2 is opposite corner of #1 about 2ft from the back wall and 1 ft from the end of the couch, so wall loaded?
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post #1738 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 06:46 PM
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So here I go, trying to break the internet..........

Mixing a sealed box and ported box, 1 12" JBL in each.

1 @ 4.0 Cu Ft Tuned to 22hz, 1 @ 1.2 Cu Ft Sealed. About 300 watts each.

Go or no-go?

I may just build a second sealed box and do a VS deathmatch, 2 sealed or 1 sealed/1ported. Winner takes all, loser gets turned into a work bench.
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post #1739 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 07:11 PM
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LOL! As you can see from my previous 90000 posts, I would love 1 big ported end table for 20hz movies and a small sealed one for my entertainment center for music, etc.

I am about to build both and see how it goes!
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post #1740 of 2566 Old 03-15-2019, 07:41 PM
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Just ordered another 8...

going to use them near field with 2 or 4 spread out behind each row of seating. 3 recliners per row so wondering if two per row would suffice.
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