12" JBL speaker $29 on black friday at Bestbuy - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 2704 Old 03-15-2019, 08:55 PM
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....and a second Inuke 6000dsp to power the 8.
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post #1742 of 2704 Old 03-15-2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Aron #1 sub, which is near the LCR would be about 1.5 ft3 max and #2 can be as large as 3.5 ft3 as it is opposite corner and next to the couch.
You could still tune them both to 20Hz and get some decent enough output utilizing these drivers and your size limitations. Sounds like they will fit your needs quite well.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #1743 of 2704 Old 03-15-2019, 09:38 PM
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This thread is terrible for the easily persuaded....

I now have a 1xCX 1200, 1x1214, an Inuke 1000DSP entirely because of this thread and @EndersShadow . Now with this sale I'm wondering what else I can do with them.

For the cheapskates and non-audiophiles out there...No EQ, no building skills, I threw together a sealed 1.2 cu ft box, 12 oz of polyfill, because i got tired of waiting for my FIL in help me build my real box. A single CS1214 SLAYS my HTIB 10".

Just destroys it. Cleaner, fuller and appears more effortless (of course a bridged inuke helps in the effort department).

Had a little Band of Gypsy's playing on vinyl today.....just fantastic. Can't wait to hear what these sound like FLAT in my ported 4 cu ft box, as opposed to my junk sealed box.

Just need it built before Season 8 of GOT...........April is coming...

(Attached-live action shot of the cheap scrap sealed box build.....don't judge me, this was justto whet the appetite before my real ported box is built. Good way to test out glue, clamping, etc.)
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Last edited by CheapSpeakerGuy; 03-15-2019 at 09:46 PM.
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post #1744 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 05:19 AM
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I talk myself into buying one more and, of course, this sale's already over.

Michael
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post #1745 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I talk myself into buying one more and, of course, this sale's already over.

Michael
You see, OJ Bartley, this is what happens when you waste time thinking things through sensibly...



Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ Bartley
Hmmm... would a pair of these installed in a rear riser make sense to add some nearfield tactile response and smooth out a room? At this price, it's extremely tempting.


Wait... better yet, can I build a pair of horns using these drivers as a riser? I was only planning to go about 10" high, but the mounting depth appears to be just over 6". Would these drivers be suitable for a horn application?
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Buy now, ask questions later!
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post #1746 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 06:47 AM
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So true!! Lol
@LastButNotLeast sorry you just missed it! I was goaded into jumping in and now I have to thank these guys for the peer pressure.

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post #1747 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 06:52 AM
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You won't be sorry.
Actually, maybe you will (see sig "Welcome").
Michael
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post #1748 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 09:54 AM
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For someone trying to squeeze the most out of these drivers, a single driver in a VBSS box with a full width slot port 1.25"x22"x40.5" long will tune to ~15Hz, while that port size will keep velocity below 20m/s and 250w will push the driver to 15mm of excursion. The response is also extremely flat (+/-3dB from 14Hz throughout the entire passband).

4 of them will give 115dB+ from 14Hz up while staying at those same excursion and velocity levels, while using only 1000W total.

Here's max output of one compared to same size sealed:

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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #1749 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
compared to same size sealed
But sealed wouldn't be the same size.
Show sealed 1.2cf and the lp filter above (+12dB @ 30Hz?).
Thanks.
Michael
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post #1750 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
But sealed wouldn't be the same size.
Show sealed 1.2cf and the lp filter above (+12dB @ 30Hz?).
Thanks.
Michael
It doesn't matter if you make the sealed smaller for model comparison purposes. There's almost no difference in sealed sizes once you go above 3cf as the driver becomes excursion limited. If I showed sealed at 1.2cf it would just make the sealed look worse. I didn't want to give the ported a size advantage for the comparison.

There is no filtering. I am showing Max SPL.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #1751 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 01:59 PM
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If you can go 6+ cu ft per driver... that's going to be hard to beat, but that's also some enormous box volume in the room once you have a few of them kicking around. Still, considering price... wow. Modeling 4 sealed in the same volume as that single ported beats it everywhere except a little notch at 15hz. If you're scrapped for cash for drivers, and not for cash for enclosures, AND you have space... and you're amp limited.... I don't think you can beat the 6.25 cuft/15Hz vented. Still think best value is a pile of them sealed, but different strokes for different folks.

Chris
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post #1752 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 02:15 PM
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I used thr CS1214 in the VBSS cab for a little bit until I got the PA460's and it was no slouch. Only tried the 20 hz tune though.
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post #1753 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
If you can go 6+ cu ft per driver... that's going to be hard to beat, but that's also some enormous box volume in the room once you have a few of them kicking around. Still, considering price... wow. Modeling 4 sealed in the same volume as that single ported beats it everywhere except a little notch at 15hz. If you're scrapped for cash for drivers, and not for cash for enclosures, AND you have space... and you're amp limited.... I don't think you can beat the 6.25 cuft/15Hz vented. Still think best value is a pile of them sealed, but different strokes for different folks.
It's not really that much volume for the output. Sealed needs 2-3cf each so you're going to be at similar total volume with sealed by the time you've matched the output. And you'll actually end up spending more money on wood and other supplies to build the multiple sealed vs a single sheet of plywood for each VBSS box. To me, there's really no competition as far as bang for the buck and efficiency. Four $30 drivers, four $60 sheets of plywood, and a single 1200W amp to power them all. Not to say that a pile of sealed won't get the job done, but it will cost more in drivers, box supplies, and amp to do so.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #1754 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Not to say that a pile of sealed won't get the job done, but it will cost more in drivers, box supplies, and amp to do so.
That's what I'll be doing. I'll let you know.
Michael
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post #1755 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
That's what I'll be doing. I'll let you know.
Michael
How many boxes are you doing, and what size?

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #1756 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 02:58 PM
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Sealed really doesn't need that much volume. The "not low" Qts on this driver suggests it's more at home sealed... or at least wants a bigger box if vented. The plus side for that is if you do vent it, she goes nice and low on not-many-watts. I have 4 in 1.3 cuft each right now in front of me and it'll beat the ported 12 nearly across the board. Ported single beats mine at 15hz by just under 3dB, they match around 17Hz, I'm up by 5dB at 20Hz, that grows to a very significant 9+ dB at 30Hz, and it's 10dB+ 40Hz on up. On the other side of that spike mine had more output below 14hz and by 10Hz has 14dB more output. Real world with music/movies that's huge. Worried about a high-Q alignment? Linkwitz transform that baby. Graph attached is in the same 6.25 cuft box, just 4 drivers and sealed instead of vented. Really the sealed should get a small box volume allowance for no port volume, but for napkin math this suffices. Efficiency wise 30Hz on up the sealed will play louder on the same watts. They will soak it up down low though, for sure.

I picked up a QHD 4 hole pre-made sub enclosure for this application and it cost me about $70 with some careful searching. You can do that with smallish sealed enclosures, you can't do that with larger ported ones. Economy of scale I guess.

4 drivers: $120
Enclosure: $70
Stuffing: $20
Wiring/screws: $10

$220 all in for 4 sealed, minus amp and DSP, no MDF or plywood to mess with, no extra cost for finishing assuming carpet is ok (for me, ok for behind couch or under desk).

If you needed to put them in 2-3 cuft each I'd agree with you, but you definitely do not need to. That kinda throws your comparison out the window. Nothing against a 6 cuft ported, I like it. If I just had one driver, or maybe two, I'd probably do exactly that. It just starts losing when you shoehorn a bunch of these into a small sealed box and eq the bajezus out of it. At $30 each that's kinda the point, unless you're just super budget minded on the whole thing. I'm pointing out, box volume aside, you're going to end up losing on the money side of things with plywood vs. more drivers and pre-made boxes provided you have the amplifier capacity.

Course I have Crown amps out my wazoo here, some unused ones just waiting for applications, tons of DSP and around 20 extra JBL's at the moment. And by "extra" I mean still in box waiting for next project, not unneeded, no such thing as unneeded.

Chris
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post #1757 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 03:20 PM
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^^^ Sure, that's a great value too, but it's $220 plus the cost of 1200W of power, while I spent $90 and need 300W of power to equal your 4 drivers at 13Hz. Or I can build 2 of mine and spend $180 and still only need 600W of power to equal your 4 drivers @ 11.5Hz. Sure, it takes up a little more space, but that's the point, to use space, which most people already have and is free in that sense, instead of money. We're still not talking massive boxes, almost anyone can fit a couple 6cf boxes in their room.

Both are great values, of course, because the drivers are so cheap. But I was just throwing that out for the people on really tight budgets who want to truly get the most possible bang for their buck. And they aren't sacrificing much in the process, just a little bit of space and they are getting serious output all the way through the teens and a naturally flat response. Really, the amps cost more than anything else in these builds so it's great that you already have plenty but for someone buying them it's the most significant expense. And the ported boxes don't have to be 6cf either, that can be lowered a decent amount and still give serious output.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #1758 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 07:01 PM
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Point taken... but it's $220 all in minus amp. You still gotta finish yours, not to mention all the little things to build it (glue screws, roller/brush for finish... assuming you have all clamps/tools/etc... ). I am skeptical you could actually put it together for $60. I say this not to be a smart ass, more because I've consistently been surprised at how much the little stuff ads up to. Amp wise 300 watts is cheap today, but so is 1000, dsp is needed either way and the four sealed guys destroy the single ported north of 30hz, which is most music and movies.

One thing the ported has going for it is less DSP needed with a projected response like that model shows, you might get by with "just" an amp (no dsp) which is SUPER CHEAP and use whatever Audyssey gets you and do some customization of sound via manipulation of the crossover point and gain after the fact. That wouldn't work with the sealed 12's, DSP is mandatory for anything resembling good sound, especially in a small box. Not needing a minidsp/etc can save you a couple hundred bucks right there.

At the end of the day lots of choices for not much cash. Ported, sealed... these stupid JBL's are fantastic. I should have bought 10 more.
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post #1759 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipford View Post
thank you!



Ok this is partially off topic but I don't know where to look:



1. What is the best way to connect the speaker wires to the woofer posts. These are mismatched metal tab connectors. The manual doesn't talk about this. Their diagram depicts a configuration that has two tabs on the pos. and neg. of each post.



2. For 4 drivers how would you connect to speakon connector? The Behringer allows you to connect 2 channels to one connector (Speakon 4 pole) but I think I would just connect to two.



3. How do you split the wire when going to a terminal and splitting to the next speaker?



I've made it to post 600 and still haven't found some of this information. I thank everyone for the information they've shared on this thread!


So I am also wondering how to connect to these type of connectors. I guess these require a male and female spade connector? Can someone link me the right ones? Thanks for the help!


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post #1760 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
How many boxes are you doing, and what size?
I've mentioned this before.
3 Q Power HD12 Triples
9 refurb CS 1214s
"Magic Square" configuration: three rows in series connected in parallel for 4 ohms to iNuke3000DSP.
Unfortunately, sidelined due to a recent surgery, so project delayed a few weeks.
Michael
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post #1761 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 09:15 PM
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Funny you guys talking about a single JBL, ported. That's what I'm building. The absolute largest I could build the box though is 4.85 cuft before subtracting ports, driver, braces. Probably 4.25 after it's all said and done.

Tuning to 22hz. 4" ports x 2 at 31" each. Photos of the ports rough cut in thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post57758146

I have a small room and was looking to build the largest box possible with the highest WAF. This essentially will be invisible.
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post #1762 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
So I am also wondering how to connect to these type of connectors. I guess these require a male and female spade connector?
Most people probably solder. I don't, so I got these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-6-3...72.m2749.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-4-8...72.m2749.l2649
The big ones fit the speaker perfectly. The little ones fit the box terminals perfectly and are a little big for the small spade on the speaker but still snug.
Michael
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post #1763 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CheapSpeakerGuy View Post
I have a small room and was looking to build the largest box possible with the highest WAF. This essentially will be invisible.
That's why you have to make four invisible boxes.

Michael
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post #1764 of 2704 Old 03-16-2019, 11:56 PM
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Yeah, single driver smallish total box amp limited cannot beat something along those lines... and if you do, the driver cost $30, you're not gonna beat it by much. This thing is awesome.
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post #1765 of 2704 Old 03-17-2019, 06:14 AM
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Actually, if you want more food for thought (and missed posts about the BOSS earlier), look here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html
Michael
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post #1766 of 2704 Old 03-17-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post

At the end of the day lots of choices for not much cash. Ported, sealed... these stupid JBL's are fantastic. I should have bought 10 more.
LOL. If I had a huge room I'd maybe try a few magic squares. But I figured I'm going to have a riser about 6 x 9 x 10" or so, and if I can put it to work with a couple cheap drivers I'd be foolish not to! I'll look into alignments as people put their various projects together and see how they turn out. Likely I'll end up with drivers facing up into the seating, and ported forward to the front row... No idea where I'd tune that to maximize the slam and impact... 30hz? 25? I'll plan a few things out when I get closer to actually building, and see.

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post #1767 of 2704 Old 03-17-2019, 08:04 AM
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post #1768 of 2704 Old 03-17-2019, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Most people probably solder. I don't, so I got these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-6-3...72.m2749.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-4-8...72.m2749.l2649
The big ones fit the speaker perfectly. The little ones fit the box terminals perfectly and are a little big for the small spade on the speaker but still snug.
Michael


Thanks! It’s hard to tell from the listing that there are two sizes of connectors included as it only looks like one in the photos.


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post #1769 of 2704 Old 03-17-2019, 09:38 AM
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Now I’m thinking I need to buy both the 6.1 mm size and the 4.8 mm size is that correct? Sorry for the dumb questions.


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post #1770 of 2704 Old 03-17-2019, 09:59 AM
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That is correct.
Technically.
However, since we'll both need three times as many little ones as big, I'll have a bunch of big ones left over.
PM me and, for an SASE, I can send you a bunch of the big (6.1mm) ones.
Michael
LastButNotLeast is offline  
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