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post #2221 of 2340 Old 06-18-2019, 07:54 AM
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I tried nearfield and moved my two Klipsch KW120 from under the screen to the back of the sofa. The 8 JBLs stayed on the side walls.

I found with woofers blasting into the couch the effect was nice but too distracting especially with music. I then turned them to the sides so the woofers would aim to the walls, almost like a dual opposed configuration with two boxes.

This gave a nice EQ and also a more subtle tactile feeling. I think when I sell the Klipsch Subs I will try a dual opposed box with 4 JBLs for behind the couch. Downfiring should also work.

What do you guys think?
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post #2222 of 2340 Old 06-18-2019, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Guys I should know this but too lazy to look.

What size disconnects do you need for the positive and negative connectors on the subs?


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Anyone?

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post #2223 of 2340 Old 06-18-2019, 09:26 AM
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Anyone?
1/4 inch

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post #2224 of 2340 Old 06-18-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
1/4 inch

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You sure? The terminals are different sized on the subs, and maybe even an size where they connect to the neutrick sub connector.....

I bought these for the nuetrick connector and they aren't snug at all, and are listed at 1/4th.

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Last edited by EndersShadow; 06-18-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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post #2225 of 2340 Old 06-18-2019, 10:10 AM
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Yeah I know what you mean on the sub connectors one looks much narrower than the other, but the connector goes past the narrow bit and into the meat of the spade regardless.

If they are loose I would suggest tightening them up with some pliers. Just be careful because the driver connectors are super weak and easy to bend.

For my Neutriks I used the ones that take the bare wire and screw down onto each of the 4 wires to secure it.

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post #2226 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 04:55 AM
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I measured my CX1200. The positive terminal is .205" and the negative is .110".
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post #2227 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Yeah I know what you mean on the sub connectors one looks much narrower than the other, but the connector goes past the narrow bit and into the meat of the spade regardless.

If they are loose I would suggest tightening them up with some pliers. Just be careful because the driver connectors are super weak and easy to bend.

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I have no problem doing that on the sub end if I have to, but I'd prefer a better fitting insulated one so I dont have to crimp it with a pliers to make sure it doesnt wiggle loose at some point in the future

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For my Neutriks I used the ones that take the bare wire and screw down onto each of the 4 wires to secure it.

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We are likely talking about differnent nuetricks.... Your talking about the speaker cable (from the sub to the amp), I'm talking about the nuetrick connector thats internal to the sub (see image)



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I measured my CX1200. The positive terminal is .205" and the negative is .110".
Thanks! Now to Amazon to order some in those dimensions lol....

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post #2228 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
I have no problem doing that on the sub end if I have to, but I'd prefer a better fitting insulated one so I dont have to crimp it with a pliers to make sure it doesnt wiggle loose at some point in the future







We are likely talking about differnent nuetricks.... Your talking about the speaker cable (from the sub to the amp), I'm talking about the nuetrick connector thats internal to the sub (see image)











Thanks! Now to Amazon to order some in those dimensions lol....
Here's the kit I used for my cs1214s (they also seem to work for diysoundgroup kits etc). I used same size connectors for + and -

Eventronic 1200pcs Insulated... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0716PSRLS

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post #2229 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Thanks! Now to Amazon to order some in those dimensions lol....
Someone mentioned being able to find them in the audio section of their auto parts store.
Might be worth a try (unless, of course, you need 1200 ).
Michael
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post #2230 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Yeah I know what you mean on the sub connectors one looks much narrower than the other, but the connector goes past the narrow bit and into the meat of the spade regardless.
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
I have no problem doing that on the sub end if I have to, but I'd prefer a better fitting insulated one so I dont have to crimp it with a pliers to make sure it doesnt wiggle loose at some point in the future
For what it's worth.....I did the same as Pradeep....used the 1/4" disconnect on the negative terminal and just pushed it a bit further onto the spade terminal of the speaker and it fits nice and snug on those nubs at the bottom.

Haven't had any connection problems after some serious shaking of all 6 of the JBL's for the last 7 months
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post #2231 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Someone mentioned being able to find them in the audio section of their auto parts store.
Might be worth a try (unless, of course, you need 1200 ).
Michael
Yeah at first I thought that kit would be overkill but with how cheap the 1214s were I pounded through a bunch of the connectors (you actually get 70 that can take 22-16AWG and 70 that can take 16-14AWG) when I wired up my first 8 drivers. I ended up using some of the additional spades to connect to diysg pre built crossovers etc.

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post #2232 of 2340 Old 06-19-2019, 09:00 AM
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Little update: Klipsch Subs have been sold. Cheap but in the end I am glad to get more JBLs.

Nearfield project has been parked though, I watched some movie scences with the Klipsch nearfield setup and felt that it would take away too much from the front bass. Tactile sensation was nice but in the end the oompf from direction of the screen and the 8 JBLs was not that strong anymore.

I will now get 4 more JBLs for two boxes under my screen for a whole of 12 JBLs in a 30 square meter room.
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post #2233 of 2340 Old 06-27-2019, 07:16 AM
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Would these pillows work the same as the Walmart ones for stuffing? The two descriptions look similar, but wanted to confirm they'd work.
https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-21...ber-pillow.jsp

They are $2.55 for 1.6 lbs (with a 15% off coupon), which makes them a slightly better value than the $2.37 ones at Walmart with 1.1 lbs.

But, I was hoping someone could double-check my math to make sure I'm not buying too many pillows. I'm planning to have 8 speaker enclosures with net internal volume of 1.7 cuft each. So, the stuffing needed would total of 21.76 cuft (1.7 cuft internal volume * 1.6 cuft stuffing * 8 enclosures), right? Which would cost roughly $36 for stuffing going with the Kohls pillows (21.76 total stuffing needed/1.6 stuffing per pillow ~ 14 pillows. 14 pillows * $2.55 = $35.70)?

So to sum up, the Kohls breakdown in this scenario is...
21.76 total stuffing needed/1.6 stuffing per pillow ~ 14 pillows
14 pillows * $2.55 = $35.70

Assuming the above is correct, here is the number breakdown for Walmart ones.
21.76 total stuffing needed/1.1 stuffing per pillow ~ 20 pillows
20 pillows * $2.37 = $47.40
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post #2234 of 2340 Old 06-27-2019, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post
Little update: Klipsch Subs have been sold. Cheap but in the end I am glad to get more JBLs.

Nearfield project has been parked though, I watched some movie scences with the Klipsch nearfield setup and felt that it would take away too much from the front bass. Tactile sensation was nice but in the end the oompf from direction of the screen and the 8 JBLs was not that strong anymore.

I will now get 4 more JBLs for two boxes under my screen for a whole of 12 JBLs in a 30 square meter room.
Thats exactly why I dont like nearfield. I feel Im jipping the farfield setup. Some bass shakers may be a smarter purchase and a little less distracting as far as sound output goes.

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post #2235 of 2340 Old 06-27-2019, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post
Little update: Klipsch Subs have been sold. Cheap but in the end I am glad to get more JBLs.

Nearfield project has been parked though, I watched some movie scences with the Klipsch nearfield setup and felt that it would take away too much from the front bass. Tactile sensation was nice but in the end the oompf from direction of the screen and the 8 JBLs was not that strong anymore.

I will now get 4 more JBLs for two boxes under my screen for a whole of 12 JBLs in a 30 square meter room.
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Thats exactly why I dont like nearfield. I feel Im jipping the farfield setup. Some bass shakers may be a smarter purchase and a little less distracting as far as sound output goes.

This sounds purely like a setup problem! If delay and crossover is set correct, nearfields should almost garantueed improve on the sound
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post #2236 of 2340 Old 06-27-2019, 12:00 PM
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This sounds purely like a setup problem! If delay and crossover is set correct, nearfields should almost garantueed improve on the sound
I'm wondering the same. I ran with nearfield (JBLs) for a couple of weeks. Something wasn't quite right with it. During passages where both the farfield and nearfield were active, it was almost annoying.

An hour with REW fixed it. My front subs were aligned with the LCR just fine but I didn't do a good job on the nearfield. Once I got the delay set right for the nearfield JBLs, it was smooth.
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post #2237 of 2340 Old 06-27-2019, 11:37 PM
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I am not discussing the smoothness. But the nearfield might get more of the FQ band/boost as the front subs running global EQ. In my case running global EQ the 8 Front JBL had a huge dip around 40Hz without the nearfield running (as a test to see how global EQ effected them), because the nearfield where probably to loud in that range. Running everything together it was smooth but John Wick sounded more aggressiv when I returned to front sub only.
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post #2238 of 2340 Old 06-28-2019, 05:54 AM
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I just assumed audyssey xt32 was able to set the delay in the AVR since my x4000 can do 2 sub outputs independantly.

I could throw my tiny klipsch r10sw back there and mess with it more, I cant run any EQ though outside of the AVR. But hopefully it would let me set the delay correctly. Watching intersteller the other night I had alot of violence just with far field during the worm hole scenes and anything with a rocket lol.

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post #2239 of 2340 Old 06-28-2019, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
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I am not discussing the smoothness. But the nearfield might get more of the FQ band/boost as the front subs running global EQ. In my case running global EQ the 8 Front JBL had a huge dip around 40Hz without the nearfield running (as a test to see how global EQ effected them), because the nearfield where probably to loud in that range. Running everything together it was smooth but John Wick sounded more aggressiv when I returned to front sub only.
Got it. This is what I did. I'm not trying to say it is "correct" or even the best, but it worked for me. I EQ'd everything without the nearfield turned on. I tweaked and got the response I wanted without using the nearfield subs at all. After that, I turned on the nearfield subs and tweaked levels and distance for them. Running an REW sweep with the mains and nearfield subs (no main/front subs) shows SPL levels for bass at a lower level than the mains. You can definitely feel them when everything is turned on, but the nearfields contribute comparatively less SPL than the main/front subs. That's just how it worked out for me. I really enjoy the addition of the nearfield subs but it's an exercise in adjustment to get it right.
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post #2240 of 2340 Old 06-28-2019, 06:35 AM
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It depends on what you need.
If you're looking to add FR, the nearfield need to blend with the farfield. If you want TR, the nearfield are usually out of phase with the farfield so there's no change in FR.
In my case, I have only nearfield (and one in the chair for TR - see BOSS Back).
Works great for me.
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post #2241 of 2340 Old 06-28-2019, 06:46 AM
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I think a lot of the reason some like VNF's and others don't is because a VNF setup has to be just right to sound natural. Not just SPL and balancing with FF subs, but also the position of your body relative to the VNF's. Even moving your body a few inches to the left or right can have dramatic effects on the VNF experience, usually for the worse.

I have a theory.....those who like VNF's have seats that cradle their bodies and don't allow much side to side motion. I would even venture to say those who like VNF's also recline while watching movies so their side to side movement is restricted even more due to the weights of their bodies pushing them into the cradle even more so to speak. Additionally, that crushing of the seat cushion behind them while reclined enhances the VNF experience even more because it's more solid.

This is just a theory, but something I've noticed about the setups of those who like VNF and those who don't.
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post #2242 of 2340 Old 06-28-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
I think a lot of the reason some like VNF's and others don't is because a VNF setup has to be just right to sound natural. Not just SPL and balancing with FF subs, but also the position of your body relative to the VNF's. Even moving your body a few inches to the left or right can have dramatic effects on the VNF experience, usually for the worse.

I have a theory.....those who like VNF's have seats that cradle their bodies and don't allow much side to side motion. I would even venture to say those who like VNF's also recline while watching movies so their side to side movement is restricted even more due to the weights of their bodies pushing them into the cradle even more so to speak. Additionally, that crushing of the seat cushion behind them while reclined enhances the VNF experience even more because it's more solid.

This is just a theory, but something I've noticed about the setups of those who like VNF and those who don't.
Your theory holds for my setup. Reclined, cradled, and happy with VNF
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post #2243 of 2340 Old 07-02-2019, 02:43 PM
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Full PRICE today! NUTS....



Waiting for the 4th Sale to kick in... it' has to.. .right?!



I am not spending $129 each.. not happening... lol

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post #2244 of 2340 Old 07-02-2019, 07:09 PM
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They may finally actually be running out of them.
Still $48 at Walmart:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/JBL-CS121...Black/49712807
and $50 at Sonic:
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...BL-CS1214.html
(10% off [1776] may apply).
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post #2245 of 2340 Old 07-03-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
I think a lot of the reason some like VNF's and others don't is because a VNF setup has to be just right to sound natural. Not just SPL and balancing with FF subs, but also the position of your body relative to the VNF's. Even moving your body a few inches to the left or right can have dramatic effects on the VNF experience, usually for the worse.

I have a theory.....those who like VNF's have seats that cradle their bodies and don't allow much side to side motion. I would even venture to say those who like VNF's also recline while watching movies so their side to side movement is restricted even more due to the weights of their bodies pushing them into the cradle even more so to speak. Additionally, that crushing of the seat cushion behind them while reclined enhances the VNF experience even more because it's more solid.

This is just a theory, but something I've noticed about the setups of those who like VNF and those who don't.
Doesn't apply to my situation but I have 80"+ wide VNF behind the couch, so pretty much any spot you sit on that leg of the couch is covered.

I do think blending VNF behind you is difficult. On the computer setup it's really easy as it's all coming from the front, no blending to speak of other than with the main speakers, but coming from behind it's really easy for it to sound gimmicky. I have to cross those babies over very low and have a smooth spl decrease with increasing freq, and pretty much brick wall it before too much localizable bass comes through.
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post #2246 of 2340 Old 07-03-2019, 12:44 PM
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Doesn't apply to my situation but I have 80"+ wide VNF behind the couch, so pretty much any spot you sit on that leg of the couch is covered.

I do think blending VNF behind you is difficult. On the computer setup it's really easy as it's all coming from the front, no blending to speak of other than with the main speakers, but coming from behind it's really easy for it to sound gimmicky. I have to cross those babies over very low and have a smooth spl decrease with increasing freq, and pretty much brick wall it before too much localizable bass comes through.
Precisely !! That’s how i set it up too

There is no bad nearfields, only bad setup
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post #2247 of 2340 Old 07-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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I suspect the reasoning is as such;

1: VNF isn't going to benefit (or suffer) from room modes.
2: Room correction is inappropriate for VNF, response shaping is appropriate.
3: Tactile response hinges on frequency response (shakers/etc aside); smooth is good
4: A smooth tactile response flat below approx 30hz and gradually decreasing until the 50-60hz range and tapering off into obscurity is preferable (to me).
5: Dips and bumps in the VNF freq response to blend with the mains will cause uneven/weird tactile discrepancies that are, in general, not preferable.

If I had unlimited processing, I'd probably eq VNF first, then have it running when doing freq sweeps/shaping of whole system but not impacted by global eq. It's not always easy to arrange such a thing, but that's my goal. I think I figured out a way to do it with my equipment.

This is all going to be a lot more complicated for me when I begin my 27 JBL front build here in a bit, but I look forward to it.
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post #2248 of 2340 Old 07-03-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
but I look forward to it.
So do we!

Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #2249 of 2340 Old 07-08-2019, 09:30 AM
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Full PRICE today! NUTS....
Waiting for the 4th Sale to kick in... it' has to.. .right?!
Back at $70.
Might have to wait for BF to see $30 again.

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post #2250 of 2340 Old 07-13-2019, 07:03 PM
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Build has started. Put an ad up on CL asking for some help from a carpenter, met up with a dude who seems pretty solid, so we're starting off. It'll be a slow build, but that's ok.

Plan right now is 9 triple 12 enclosures. While a triple enclosure is a little weird wiring wise, I can make it work, doing quad enclosures was a little taller than I wanted, and double enclosures... well, just too many of 'em.

Dimensions are 16" wide, 43.5" tall, 18" deep. Double thickness front panel, recessed driver. Minimal bracing. Was going to use baltic birch but decided to go MDF for cost and easy of accessibility. Original design was 20" deep but last minute I changed to 18" for just a little less impact to the living room walking area. There are some jokes about how 2" can matter that I'll leave alone for now.

Sold my ultimaxes, but they aren't picked up yet. I told the buyer I would try to blow them up before he gets them haha.


Pics once we get rolling with some product.

Chris
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